No Pancakes please on Tuesday. Home v Accrington Tues, 25th Apr. 7.45.

[BWFC_Insane]

All this pressure will be making it's way to the players. I know I am irrational for 90 mins but most things I say in those minutes rarely carry on when the day ends. These players are in League One for a reason and I think we forget is how young some of them are.

Personally I think they are doing great and through a shit ton of adversity. The loss of 4 critical players through lengthy injuries and to be in and around 5th is a feat in itself.

If we finish 5th,6th,7th then so be it. We deal with it and go again.

Wembley was a glimpse of how it can be when they play with no fear, one off nothing to lose. We pile on the pressure and they'll buckle like last night.

Thing is pressure is a part of the game. Accrington had huge pressure and haven't won away this year!

The players need to embrace the pressure and use it for a performance. Bar a couple most didn't really turn up last night.

I'd also say that the problem is not for me 'crumbling under pressure' its a season long issue of being a defensive team that builds up play very slowly and scores too rarely. I said last week that this is a problem as you get to the end of the season in these clutch moments. We need to on Saturday find a way to really more simply turn Fleetwood round and make them defend their box. We spend way too much time trying to pick our way through teams and that gets harder in a game like last night where Accrington are as desperate as we are. Or where teams have nowt to play for and will happily watch the ball in front of them before trying to counter.

Wembley - our good play and goals (two open play ones) came from transitions. Not the laborious build up play we've been guilty of in the main since then. Fix that and I don't think we have an issue. Nerves and pressure included. Keep up trying to play through sides and I'm afraid it will become far too edgy.

[TANGODANCER]

The bottom line for me is that whilst I would find losing to a decent side in the playoffs a shame it would be ok. A sign of progress. Missing out because we’ve bottled it against Accrington etc would not be that and would require some honesty from the manager and team.

Walk into the changing room at the Uibol and say that. I'm sure everyone would agree with you. Just a couple of correct refereeing decisions in previous games (not even counting last night) and we'd be home and dry by now. That isn't bottling it, as much as having four major players out from injury isn't. It's lousy luck.

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't think I'm in a massive love camp, but if I was, I'd want it to be a massive massive love camp...Yes I'm pissed off with last night's showing, I'm just not hyperbolic around the point that 7th v 6th finish in reality, is not going to be massive massive in points terms.

Just to make the point, Brucie's Reading season 1994/5....

In March if we'd won our game in hand, we'd have gone top.

That year we won 21, drew 14, lost 11. This year so far we've won 21 drawn 12, lost 11

That year we had 11, 1-0 wins, this year, I think we're on 7.

We scored 10 more goals, but conceded 11 more...

Our last 11 games that year included 5 draws and 3 defeats. 7 of those games were v bottom half teams (same as this year's current last 11). This year, our current last 11 league games have included 4 draws and 3 defeats.

Then we lost the first play-off leg, and were pretty much out of the final on 75 minutes...

We lost at Wembley in a tin pot Cup....This year, we won at Wembley in huge trophy final...

I've put a fairly obvious spin on that but rather than holding Bruce up as some sort of icon, I think what you're suggesting is we should have probably had a good close look, because it wasn't really working...

We won the play offs in 1995 and were promoted. Having run Boro close for most of the season for the one automatic spot.

But football ultimately isn't about 7th place finishes. If we were saying the difference between 8th or 9th then fair enough. But achieving something or failing to do it is a cliff edge.

End of the day if we are holding up 95 as a blueprint then I'd be delighted if we achieve that outcome. Had Rioch managed to get us out of the play offs people would have been pretty unhappy. But of course that was also a level up and our top signing in history less than £500K at the time.

[BWFC_Insane]

The bottom line for me is that whilst I would find losing to a decent side in the playoffs a shame it would be ok. A sign of progress. Missing out because we’ve bottled it against Accrington etc would not be that and would require some honesty from the manager and team.

Walk into the changing room at the Uibol and say that. I'm sure everyone would agree with you. Just a couple of correct refereeing decisions in previous games (not even counting last night) and we'd be home and dry by now. That isn't bottling it, as much as having four major players out from injury isn't. It's lousy luck.

Fair play. I don't really like the use of 'bottled it' as it doesn't mean much. It was a bad choice of words. If we do fail from here its entirely down to us and absolutely nothing to do with luck.

The missing players didn't impact upon last night. Our issue wasn't the back three it was our inability to create chances and score goals and build meaningful pressure.

The point is - this isn't 'luck' - we absolutely shouldn't mess this up from here even now. If we do because we can't beat Accrington who are useless, Fleetwood and Bristol Rovers - we can't blame anyone else but ourselves and need to look at why it went wrong and fix it.

[Worthy4England]

The thing that swayed 1995 season wasn't the results vs this season. It was that we got promoted...The thing you're holding up as Evatt "blowing it" has a lot of comparability with what we did that year, but circumstantially it turned out that it wasn't important in the final analysis...

On 44 games played, we have the same points as Bruce had in 1995. That would have us in 5th with 2 to play. This year we have three teams on over 90 points already, no one had over 90 points after 44 games in 95 - no one had over 80.

Such a drama...

[BWFC_Insane]

The thing that swayed 1995 season wasn't the results vs this season. It was that we got promoted...The thing you're holding up as Evatt "blowing it" has a lot of comparability with what we did that year, but circumstantially it turned out that it wasn't important in the final analysis...

On 44 games played, we have the same points as Bruce had in 1995. That would have us in 5th with 2 to play. This year we have three teams on over 90 points already, no one had over 90 points after 44 games in 95 - no one had over 80.

Such a drama...

Well outcome is ultimately all that matters in football. No team is saying 'well we missed out on our target but we got more points than in 1996 so lets all relax'.

I've literally no idea why we're comparing it to 1995 - I certainly do not see it in any way comparable.

I feel we've underperformed this season slightly with what we have - we should be comfortably in the play offs for me. I don't think for one second I'd expect us to win them. But get there and give it a go. Then work out how to take it a step further next season should ultimately we lose to a Sheffield Wednesday or whatever....

Next season the goal will have to be promotion. And I'm certainly not bothered about 'well we missed out but in 2001 we'd have got promoted with this points total'.

Man City aren't sitting there saying 'well if we finish second its better than when we were bottom' its not their aim - even though obviously finishing 2nd for many teams would be great.

6th is in with a shout. 7th for me - is failure.

[knobpolisher]

desperate to beat us and no doubt will as Evatt will make the wrong changes. 2-0 Accrington starts off the end of season rot as we slip into 7th on the last day. Evatt out!

I cannot fathom if you are taking the piss or not.
Its maybe a godsend I'm not on your wavelength, that's if anyone is.

It seems you are correct on this occasion, don't do it again.

[BWFC_Insane]

desperate to beat us and no doubt will as Evatt will make the wrong changes. 2-0 Accrington starts off the end of season rot as we slip into 7th on the last day. Evatt out!

I cannot fathom if you are taking the piss or not.
Its maybe a godsend I'm not on your wavelength, that's if anyone is.

It seems you are correct on this occasion, don't do it again.

I was joking.....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I will reiterate that I agree that missing out on the play-offs from where we have been would be a massive kick in the cock. Not all finishing statistics are equally applicable; if you've been up there for months and you fall out at the end to finish 7th, it's much more of a letdown than last spring's good run but falling short. It's a bit like the difference in feeling between drawing 1-1 at home to Morecambe last season (Bod's 94th-minute leveller) and drawing 1-1 with Cambridge the other week.

So no, not all stats are comparable, but they can be used to quantitatively assess progress. We've already won as many league games (21) as last season, and collected 2 more points. We've lost four fewer, which is definitely better. We've conceded 23 fewer – 34 vs 57, which is a somewhat astonishing improvement in anyone's book.

However, we've scored 17 fewer. That's where the problem lies. Nobody in the top nine teams has scored fewer. Burton, 16th, have only scored one fewer. Nobody on here or elsewhere has been satisfied with our attacking prowess this season, especially this spring.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, but life's about balance. Last season we scored more than Rotherham, who went straight up in second place because they only conceded 33. This season we've almost matched their defensive record and, unless we ship 10 goals in the remaining two games, will have a better defensive record than anybody bar the Millers managed last season.

As I've said, that's partly down to Trafford's excellence but it also feels like systemic improvement considering the ever-changing personnel at the back. Credit for that, then, has to go to the coaching staff – perhaps notably Sam Hird, the first-team coach whose appointment seriously underwhelmed me but whose time at the club has at the very least coincided with a huge and sustained improvement at the back.

Perhaps it's a sign of the times that Evatt was not, until around about a week ago, regarded as a defensive manager. (If he is a defensive manager, he's got a curious way of showing it – by habitually leaving a single centre-back 1v1 in the entire defensive half.) If he can combine this new-found solidity – not bad for a non-league manager building around a pub-league centre-back - with the commitment to attacking that we've shown previously, we'll properly be in business.

TL,DR: Last season we finished 9th. This season we'll finish 5th-7th and won a cup. That's not a massive massive failure.

[BWFC_Insane]

My expectation is to get out of this league pretty soon. If not this season then absolutely next season. I don't think for Bolton Wanderers that is outlandish or ridiculous. At some point and that point is now we cannot just be happy with staying down. We've seen teams like Derby for example miss out on promotion year after year and it left them in a mess. Football is ultimately a harsh business. Its about the end result. I'm perfectly ok with finishing 6th this season and missing out. But IF somehow we did go up that would be infinitely better.

But IF we don't this season then I think the expectation of just about every fan will be we go up. Its fine losing to Accrington at home but lets not pretend we should be happy about it or that this should be our level.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

My expectation is to get out of this league pretty soon. If not this season then absolutely next season. I don't think for Bolton Wanderers that is outlandish or ridiculous. At some point and that point is now we cannot just be happy with staying down. We've seen teams like Derby for example miss out on promotion year after year and it left them in a mess. Football is ultimately a harsh business. Its about the end result. I'm perfectly ok with finishing 6th this season and missing out. But IF somehow we did go up that would be infinitely better.

But IF we don't this season then I think the expectation of just about every fan will be we go up. Its fine losing to Accrington at home but lets not pretend we should be happy about it or that this should be our level.

I would expect that very many, perhaps most, fans would/will expect promotion next season if we don't get it this time. I couldn't really argue with that. It would represent a reasonable expectation of progress from this season – whether we lose in the playoffs or miss them.

It may not happen, and there may be reasons for that – strength of rivals, lack of replacements for the excelling Trafford/Bradley, poor managerial decisions. But it would, IMO, be a reasonable expectation.

We get nowt for the past. We don't get a five-point start because we used to be Premier League. It raises expectations but not necessarily output.

I think we have to take the long view. I don't know the answer to this, but how many teams promoted from the Fourth have swept straight up through this division in recent years? We are building and progressing, but from a much lower, life-threateningly low point – and doing so in a relatively sustainable fashion (relatively for the madness that is football finance). At some point, that too fades into memory just like the Premier League time does – but if it means we are on an unlevel playing field, it remains a constant.

[TANGODANCER]

Accrington at home but lets not pretend we should be happy about it or that this should be our level.

Losing to Accrington wasn't exactly a truth in terms of skill, was it?. and hitting wood work twice in a match either, or getting bad reffing calls. Circumstance has to be considered when passing judgement. Not overmuch to do with our level really.

[BWFC_Insane]

My expectation is to get out of this league pretty soon. If not this season then absolutely next season. I don't think for Bolton Wanderers that is outlandish or ridiculous. At some point and that point is now we cannot just be happy with staying down. We've seen teams like Derby for example miss out on promotion year after year and it left them in a mess. Football is ultimately a harsh business. Its about the end result. I'm perfectly ok with finishing 6th this season and missing out. But IF somehow we did go up that would be infinitely better.

But IF we don't this season then I think the expectation of just about every fan will be we go up. Its fine losing to Accrington at home but lets not pretend we should be happy about it or that this should be our level.

I would expect that very many, perhaps most, fans would/will expect promotion next season if we don't get it this time. I couldn't really argue with that. It would represent a reasonable expectation of progress from this season – whether we lose in the playoffs or miss them.

It may not happen, and there may be reasons for that – strength of rivals, lack of replacements for the excelling Trafford/Bradley, poor managerial decisions. But it would, IMO, be a reasonable expectation.

We get nowt for the past. We don't get a five-point start because we used to be Premier League. It raises expectations but not necessarily output.

I think we have to take the long view. I don't know the answer to this, but how many teams promoted from the Fourth have swept straight up through this division in recent years? We are building and progressing, but from a much lower, life-threateningly low point – and doing so in a relatively sustainable fashion (relatively for the madness that is football finance). At some point, that too fades into memory just like the Premier League time does – but if it means we are on an unlevel playing field, it remains a constant.

We've got to look at the FV business model that relies heavily on large ST numbers and attendances and growing the fanbase.

They've achieved that brilliantly so far but one fears what happens if we appear to be 'stuck' in this league. Going up and coming back down would be preferable as frankly it would give us more resources to build - assuming we don't blow the lot which I suspect we would not.

I felt at the start we should be looking at promotion this season and had us down for play offs - but I do feel we've slightly underperformed.

But the grumbles will be loud if next season we don't make it - they are already there and I know a fair few ST holders who would start to think twice.

Building and improving is fine but the next step is critical. January is a red flag for our ability to take that next step as its the first time I feel we've gone backwards. And the summer now becomes massive - we cannot afford to get it wrong.

[BWFC_Insane]

Accrington at home but lets not pretend we should be happy about it or that this should be our level.

Losing to Accrington wasn't exactly a truth in terms of skill, was it?. and hitting wood work twice in a match either, or getting bad reffing calls. Circumstance has to be considered when passing judgement. Not overmuch to do with our level really.

We deserved to lose last night. Lets not dress it up. We didn't hit the woodwork twice nor was the referee why we lost.

[Worthy4England]

My expectation is to get out of this league pretty soon. If not this season then absolutely next season. I don't think for Bolton Wanderers that is outlandish or ridiculous. At some point and that point is now we cannot just be happy with staying down. We've seen teams like Derby for example miss out on promotion year after year and it left them in a mess. Football is ultimately a harsh business. Its about the end result. I'm perfectly ok with finishing 6th this season and missing out. But IF somehow we did go up that would be infinitely better.

But IF we don't this season then I think the expectation of just about every fan will be we go up. Its fine losing to Accrington at home but lets not pretend we should be happy about it or that this should be our level.

I don't think it's outlandish, necessarily either.

But when I look at the teams that are currently above us, I'm fairly sure we have a smaller wage bill than Sheff Weds and Ipswich. I'm fairly sure the likes of Sunderland, Derby, Leeds, Ipswich, Sheff Weds etc. etc. all don't think it's outlandish either. Wigan spent most of last season losing shit-loads of money in the aggregate with ~160% of our staff costs. Sure it got them up ok...

You say it's all about outcome, but finishing 6th and missing out is exactly the same outcome as finishing 20th - or 7th...Not promoted...(Not that I'm suggesting I'd be happy with 20th)...

[BWFC_Insane]

My expectation is to get out of this league pretty soon. If not this season then absolutely next season. I don't think for Bolton Wanderers that is outlandish or ridiculous. At some point and that point is now we cannot just be happy with staying down. We've seen teams like Derby for example miss out on promotion year after year and it left them in a mess. Football is ultimately a harsh business. Its about the end result. I'm perfectly ok with finishing 6th this season and missing out. But IF somehow we did go up that would be infinitely better.

But IF we don't this season then I think the expectation of just about every fan will be we go up. Its fine losing to Accrington at home but lets not pretend we should be happy about it or that this should be our level.

I don't think it's outlandish, necessarily either.

But when I look at the teams that are currently above us, I'm fairly sure we have a smaller wage bill than Sheff Weds and Ipswich. I'm fairly sure the likes of Sunderland, Derby, Leeds, Ipswich, Sheff Weds etc. etc. all don't think it's outlandish either. Wigan spent most of last season losing shit-loads of money in the aggregate with ~160% of our staff costs. Sure it got them up ok...

You say it's all about outcome, but finishing 6th and missing out is exactly the same outcome as finishing 20th - or 7th...Not promoted...(Not that I'm suggesting I'd be happy with 20th)...

Of course. For me finishing in the play offs gives you a shot at the raffle. Even if maybe we have fewer tickets than most. Sunderland were awful at times last season scraped into the play offs, won them and now sit in the championship play offs!

I mean look - if you say to me we finish 7th but go up next season I'd take that of course.

My concern is we can't accept mediocrity forever because some people like Ian Evatt. He's done a good job. There are signs for me that he's going to struggle to take us further for a variety of reasons. But hopefully he can. I just fear what happens if he doesn't and we start to get a more disgruntled fan base - the budget won't get bigger....

[Worthy4England]

I think most are in the sorta same place. I do think IE "and us" will face a tougher season next season, if we're still hovering around 5th - 8th. But I look at this years gap, and in points terms it isn't small. So there's going to be a lot of work to do, I feel, just to be competitive in this division in a sense that we might all believe we could go up. I think most of us would have this year, should we manage to sneak through as being "one against the head and feed"....

I do worry about how we'd finance the championship, and I'm not half as certain as some that we have enough volume of "champo capable" players...so I think it would require a lot of thought.

I'm certainly not persuaded that something that might look "technically pretty" gets any more kudos than a 1-0 win.

I'm not sure where I'd realistically set "todays expectation" for where we are as a Club. At the minute, I'd probably have Prem, out of reach, Champo at best borderline, L2, shouldn't be there...We do feel a bit betwixt and between. Certainly I don't currently "expect" Champo, but with a desire to get there,,,,

[BWFC_Insane]

I think most are in the sorta same place. I do think IE "and us" will face a tougher season next season, if we're still hovering around 5th - 8th. But I look at this years gap, and in points terms it isn't small. So there's going to be a lot of work to do, I feel, just to be competitive in this division in a sense that we might all believe we could go up. I think most of us would have this year, should we manage to sneak through as being "one against the head and feed"....

I do worry about how we'd finance the championship, and I'm not half as certain as some that we have enough volume of "champo capable" players...so I think it would require a lot of thought.

I'm certainly not persuaded that something that might look "technically pretty" gets any more kudos than a 1-0 win.

I'm not sure where I'd realistically set "todays expectation" for where we are as a Club. At the minute, I'd probably have Prem, out of reach, Champo at best borderline, L2, shouldn't be there...We do feel a bit betwixt and between. Certainly I don't currently "expect" Champo, but with a desire to get there,,,,

I think that we can get a bit bogged down with budget. At times. Yes there are teams in this league with more money to spend. But Plymouth for example aren't one. Peterborough certainly are not.

People cite the 'wage budget' Parky had but that was mainly tied up in existing players who were more or less all despised by the fans and written off as useless. As a manager he managed to squeeze the best out of them with some fairly prudent additions - lost two of his better attackers in January and got us up still. I think that was overachieving inspite of the silly wages we were paying some players when he arrived.

This season we went into it after promotion winning form back end of last and went a bit backwards for me - I didn't expect the top 2 but I think we're slightly off where I think we should be. But I'd also say in watching the season there is no sense that we often, if ever, overperform. We're in that sort of window where its a bit of a struggle and we're clinging on a bit to where we are - I think that's below my expectation. The players we've got for me could do better. I don't think we've squeezed the best out of them. Maybe if we're being honest it goes back to some games first half of the season where we ended with poor results. Maybe Accy, Cambridge and the poor run pre Wembley happen every now and then. I don't know. But I've rarely watched us this season and felt we just look 'better' than most teams - its a competitive league but for me we're slightly lacklustre.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The much-missed Ghost, who seemed to have the inside line, frequently said that Plymouth were outspending us on wages. Why do you suppose that Posh, who were Champo last season, aren't? (They're also below us, for now, in that dreaded 7th place – I assume that if they don't reach the play-offs, unlike fellow relegatees Barnsley and Derby, they'd see that as failure....)

[Bertie Wooster]

We are still lightweight & lack physicality and leadership on the pitch. Also apart from Santos I can't see many of our players getting into the current Ipswich, Plymouth, Sheff Weds, Barnsley sides. I'm not sure how we compare budget wise with the other top 10 teams in League 1 but this summer IMO we do need 2-3 experienced, proven players with better leadership / battling qualities.

I'm not a big Evatt fan as I think that he over complicates the game, he needs a plan B when the slow, predictable, boring tippy tappy side to side tactic doesn't work. This team does have a good game in them (i.e. Papa Johns final, P/Boro away, MK Dons home, Charlton away, Sunderland last season) - but that's the exception IMO, Evatt needs to have different plans & tactics for different teams and at the moment he doesn't - and these are all players that he signed. His Jan window signings have all been very poor and we are a worse team than pre Jan (IMO). At times when I watch us play I'm often surprised that we are 5th or 6th because we have some very average lower league players, therefore perhaps Evatt should be congratulated on getting an average side (IMO) to an inch of the play offs & impatient and critical fans like myself should cut him some slack and acknowledge that he may actually be over achieving with the tools, players at his disposal.

I also wouldn't be bothered if we didn't re-sign any of the out of contract players - whatever happens now until the end of the season we need at least 4 or 5 better quality players next season to improve and provide the required level of consistency to progress, however obviously that depends on funds and I'm not sure the owners have the required funds to improve the team enough (which isn't a criticism)

Btw Fleetwood will be difficult on Saturday and we will need the team to have one of their occasional 'good games' and play at a faster tempo and mix up the play a bit. Also with Dapo gone we don't really have a player who can beat a man or create much out wide which makes us tactically quite predictable to play against & nullify.