Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

[GhostoftheBok]

Well I disagree. Charles like Doyle was a proven scorer at the level we signed him for, its not difficult to "see" them. Similarly Dempsey was well regarded at this level and has for me completely flopped. I don't agree he's a good player at all, he's put in a few superb performances granted but they're few and far between.

I just think if he picks a defender he's very likely to be exceptional, if he picks anyone else it's pot luck whether they're any good.

You say those players were easy to spot, but plenty of teams didn't think they were worth a go and plenty of our fans moaned about us signing them. Clearly they weren't that obvious. A player scoring for one club doesn't mean they'll score for yours, so Evatt has managed to repeatedly find players who will grab his side goals.

If he could only spot defenders we'd not have improved every season under his stewardship.

It just doesn't make any sense.

The idea that Dempsey has completely flopped is genuinely amazing. I've got no idea how to respond to that view. He's just very obviously a good player who has been good for us.

[irie Cee Bee]

Well I disagree. Charles like Doyle was a proven scorer at the level we signed him for, its not difficult to "see" them. Similarly Dempsey was well regarded at this level and has for me completely flopped. I don't agree he's a good player at all, he's put in a few superb performances granted but they're few and far between.

I just think if he picks a defender he's very likely to be exceptional, if he picks anyone else it's pot luck whether they're any good.

You say those players were easy to spot, but plenty of teams didn't think they were worth a go and plenty of our fans moaned about us signing them. Clearly they weren't that obvious. A player scoring for one club doesn't mean they'll score for yours, so Evatt has managed to repeatedly find players who will grab his side goals.

If he could only spot defenders we'd not have improved every season under his stewardship.

It just doesn't make any sense.

The idea that Dempsey has completely flopped is genuinely amazing. I've got no idea how to respond to that view. He's just very obviously a good player who has been good for us.

I must agree with this. He has been our best and most consistent midfielder last season.

[TANGODANCER]

As The Gun has mentioned, anyone else a bit bemused be the non-announcement of Bod?

No News is Good news...so they say.....except if you're a celebrity of course...

[jmjhb]

Norburn and Savin would be two very astute signings for me.

[GhostoftheBok]

Just as an aside, it's interesting to keep track of who is linked vs the state of play last summer when we weren't good enough at the end of the window.

We are down arguably our three most talented players in Traf, Bradley and Dapo from that "not good enough position."

If Dad Bod stays we're probably up a smidge on the left, slightly better in midfield for having Sheehan back fit and up in terms of Baka vs Vik (some on here disagree there).

If we got Dabo and Savin I think most would have us down on quality like for like against Bradley and Traf. Leaving aside his positional woes in this system, our chances of bringing in a player better than Dapo in forward areas seems fairly low.

So the questions are: Where do we make up ground in the 11? Will the possibility of having a slightly better 22-25 make up for if the 11 is weaker? Are we making tactical adjustments that make the sum better, even if we're down on individual quality?

[Worthy4England]

Problem for me is that it feels like "much of a muchness." Given our loanees have gone home, if I was asked to name our best player, I'd struggle (bit like Evatt's we don't have a strongest XI, comment). If I use an example of an XI with Thommo playing, with two of Demps, Morley and Sheehan.I wouldn't be sat there if we bought the missing one on, thinking that's nailed on to take us up gear...even someone like Sads, you're probably saying well he might just...Baka as a sub, season before, you're thinking he might be good for one...

What we're doing has been touted as the way it needs to be done and whilst we're progressing that's fine but if it stalls, I think there'll be more criticism. I'd be surprised if there was the same amount of leeway for finishing 5th and going out with a whimper two years running.

I think he's got to get Vic working. Not as a replacement for Baka, no one will believe he was signed on 3.5 years as a sorta super-sub.

We have to replace Lee/Shortire type role with something the can work most weeks, and we have to get our WBs and front men connecting with each other more often...

[BWFC_Insane]

Just as an aside, it's interesting to keep track of who is linked vs the state of play last summer when we weren't good enough at the end of the window.

We are down arguably our three most talented players in Traf, Bradley and Dapo from that "not good enough position."

If Dad Bod stays we're probably up a smidge on the left, slightly better in midfield for having Sheehan back fit and up in terms of Baka vs Vik (some on here disagree there).

If we got Dabo and Savin I think most would have us down on quality like for like against Bradley and Traf. Leaving aside his positional woes in this system, our chances of bringing in a player better than Dapo in forward areas seems fairly low.

So the questions are: Where do we make up ground in the 11? Will the possibility of having a slightly better 22-25 make up for if the 11 is weaker? Are we making tactical adjustments that make the sum better, even if we're down on individual quality?

We spent the money in January so surely we aren’t weaker unless that was a poor signing?

[Mar]

Norburn and Savin would be two very astute signings for me.

Savin was good when we played against him. Norburn is interesting, he's another decent player with low numbers, 1 assist 0 goals last season. Hopefully he's good for the ball, before the assist, which doesn't really show in metrics on transfermarkt.

[GhostoftheBok]

We spent the money in January so surely we aren’t weaker unless that was a poor signing?

We've lost three major players in two windows (Jan and this) and we spent one major fee.

So it depends how the replacements stack up. Unless you think Vik should make up for losing three top players on his own.

Like I said, if we keep Dad Bod we are better up top than we were last season as Vik is a better player than Baka. We're also probably better on the left with Williams as an option.

If we get close in terms of quality at GK, RWB and #10 then we'll see where we stand on the 11 and 22-25.

[GhostoftheBok]

Problem for me is that it feels like "much of a muchness." Given our loanees have gone home, if I was asked to name our best player, I'd struggle (bit like Evatt's we don't have a strongest XI, comment). If I use an example of an XI with Thommo playing, with two of Demps, Morley and Sheehan.I wouldn't be sat there if we bought the missing one on, thinking that's nailed on to take us up gear...even someone like Sads, you're probably saying well he might just...Baka as a sub, season before, you're thinking he might be good for one...

What we're doing has been touted as the way it needs to be done and whilst we're progressing that's fine but if it stalls, I think there'll be more criticism. I'd be surprised if there was the same amount of leeway for finishing 5th and going out with a whimper two years running.

I think he's got to get Vic working. Not as a replacement for Baka, no one will believe he was signed on 3.5 years as a sorta super-sub.

We have to replace Lee/Shortire type role with something the can work most weeks, and we have to get our WBs and front men connecting with each other more often...

Yes. I think I basically agree with all of that (I've got a bored, injured cat rolling all over me, so if I missed something forgive me).

"Much of a muchness" is a feeling I understand. There's a distinct lack of what would have been called "flair" 20 years ago. Nobody in that squad is going to do anything unexpected or magical.

For an outlay of 600k Adeboyejo has to work out, yes. He's be brought in to score goals and Evatt needs to get that working in preseason. It's not just about Vic, it's about the whole squad; but that has to result in goals.

Game changing bench options are often about guile and pace, both of which we lack in attack. We have a squad of hard working lads with good attitudes, but we need inspiration.

We've seen the impact a player like Dapo can have on the whole club. The sort of player who gets you on the edge of your seat as soon as he touches the ball is something great teams need and we want to be a great League One team.

[Worthy4England]

Hold on mucker. Flair is no longer called flair? When did that happen? WTF's it called now?

Patterns are great. As long as the ones you're using are delivering what you need them to, enough times to reach what you're trying to achieve. When they're not doing that, because someone has countered your patterns (as we see with the "low block" more than we'd like), then you either need better patterns or things that aren't part of any pattern and are difficult to counter. I might call that last bit flair or je ne sais quois.

For me, we need to weave some of that, not just in our "change it off the bench" options, but in our baseline and DNA. I suspect IE thinks we're doing that, my observations are maybe a little, but nowhere near enough.

[The_Gun]

I'd guess that if we're to get any game-changing flair type players this summer it's most likely to be on loan. There aren't many real final third difference makers knocking about on frees, or available for the kind of money we pay.

Would we have a shot at either Ben Doak or Kaide Gordon from Liverpool, Ghost?

[boltonboris]

Would we not be interested in Shoretire for a little while longer? Whilst he didn't rip up trees, he showed glimpses, seems a good egg with a good work ethic and with a full, mens pre-season under his belt and a more defined role in the squad, I think there's a definite difference maker there. He's only a kid and would have learned a lot in our run-in

[boltonboris]

Hold on mucker. Flair is no longer called flair? When did that happen? WTF's it called now?

Patterns are great. As long as the ones you're using are delivering what you need them to, enough times to reach what you're trying to achieve. When they're not doing that, because someone has countered your patterns (as we see with the "low block" more than we'd like), then you either need better patterns or things that aren't part of any pattern and are difficult to counter. I might call that last bit flair or je ne sais quois.

For me, we need to weave some of that, not just in our "change it off the bench" options, but in our baseline and DNA. I suspect IE thinks we're doing that, my observations are maybe a little, but nowhere near enough.

Yep.. "This ain't working, so I'm going to run at em" is something we've missed most of the season - We need to find one. And it doesn't have to be a kick it and run flyer, but just somebody who can commit someone, drop a shoulder and change direction quickly. We had it with Dapo and I think Shola Shoretire could be that man if we get him into the right areas.

Dapo could instinctively find spaces, it seemed uncoached, but we did play a slightly faster game last season and earlier this season

[BWFC_Insane]

The thing is with Dapo and Shoretire both need to play from a wide forward position. Dapo couldn’t do the number 10 role and neither could Shoretire. That role has a high burden on it including pressing and that football brain to take the ball in tight spaces and make the play. It’s sometimes a run at teams with it but often isn’t that.

I’m not a big Shoretire fan but when he worked it was that false number 9 and effectively dropping into those holes in front of full backs. In our system that only works when a team leaves the space which is rare.

So again it comes down to not playing the system that would accommodate these players.

[boltonboris]

The thing is with Dapo and Shoretire both need to play from a wide forward position. Dapo couldn’t do the number 10 role and neither could Shoretire. That role has a high burden on it including pressing and that football brain to take the ball in tight spaces and make the play. It’s sometimes a run at teams with it but often isn’t that.

I’m not a big Shoretire fan but when he worked it was that false number 9 and effectively dropping into those holes in front of full backs. In our system that only works when a team leaves the space which is rare.

So again it comes down to not playing the system that would accommodate these players.

You don't like him because he's inexperienced and short!

As we've agreed in the near past though, if we can't sign the wing-backs to improve us, we'll HAVE to use Wide forwards

[Worthy4England]

The thing is with Dapo and Shoretire both need to play from a wide forward position. Dapo couldn’t do the number 10 role and neither could Shoretire. That role has a high burden on it including pressing and that football brain to take the ball in tight spaces and make the play. It’s sometimes a run at teams with it but often isn’t that.

I’m not a big Shoretire fan but when he worked it was that false number 9 and effectively dropping into those holes in front of full backs. In our system that only works when a team leaves the space which is rare.

So again it comes down to not playing the system that would accommodate these players.

You don't like him because he's inexperienced and short!

As we've agreed in the near past though, if we can't sign the wing-backs to improve us, we'll HAVE to use Wide forwards

Yeah - this is where I'm at. And I'm not sure it's an either / or. I'm fairly sure we'd like to be able to punch holes more centrally as well as using the WB's. I had a peek at some stats about our chances created per 90 mins. Most of the top 7 are no longer with us, with Dec in the "dunno" column

Morley 2.1; Sadlier 2.1; Randy 1.6; Sexy 1.5; Declan 1.4; Dapo/Shortire 1.3.

I think the way Evatt gushed about Shortire, prior to signing him, he might well make a return. Only think I'd say is it looked fairly apparent as the post-Jan window progressed to the end of the season, IE looked less likely to start him as I think most would say he wasn't quite ready yet...

[TonyDomingos]

Does Sharon saying the aim is automatic promotion + window opening tomorrow = getting business done early doors?

Surely, Sharon wouldn't have made that proclamation before entering into negotiations? It would simply bump prices.

[Worthy4England]

Does Sharon saying the aim is automatic promotion + window opening tomorrow = getting business done early doors?

Surely, Sharon wouldn't have made that proclamation before entering into negotiations? It would simply bump prices.

Well IE said he had dosh in Jan and wasn't rushing to spend it all in Jan. He has mentioned additional investment from the Board since then, and the Bond (not re-doing the argument around what the bond was there to fund) is now sat at £4m with a week to go...So comparatively, you'd think that gives some wiggle room.

[BWFC_Insane]

The thing is with Dapo and Shoretire both need to play from a wide forward position. Dapo couldn’t do the number 10 role and neither could Shoretire. That role has a high burden on it including pressing and that football brain to take the ball in tight spaces and make the play. It’s sometimes a run at teams with it but often isn’t that.

I’m not a big Shoretire fan but when he worked it was that false number 9 and effectively dropping into those holes in front of full backs. In our system that only works when a team leaves the space which is rare.

So again it comes down to not playing the system that would accommodate these players.

You don't like him because he's inexperienced and short!

As we've agreed in the near past though, if we can't sign the wing-backs to improve us, we'll HAVE to use Wide forwards

If we played a 343 or 433 I’d say the view on Shoretire is different. I don’t think he’s close to ready for a number 10 role in the system we actually play.