Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

[Worthy4England]

I don't disagree with what you're saying about John and Sadlier, in the same sense as Dapo stopped fitting our system. Sure it wasn't working for either. But for me there's a couple of dimensions to it. I'm all for talk about ceilings two years out, but your first XI needs to understand what it's ceiling is at 15:00 this Saturday against likely promotion rivals and if the pick was John or Beck at LWB v Derby, coz Williams was injured, then I'm picking John, every time, understanding his limitations and still agreeing with the notion he needs moving on.

Aye, it's a complex argument. In that situation I would pick John but I wouldn't know whether the right John would turn up, or we'd get the half-arsed liability he became.

When I was a coach I preferred a limited trier who understood the system and worked hard for team-mates than the errant genius who couldn't be arsed. I think team-mates did too. But I accept they make the difference – one way or another.

I agree at one level but I think there's balance and you have to look at how big the gap actually is. Anyone who's played team sports will acknowledge the conundrum, because we've probably all seen the dude who never made training but turned up Saturday, so as selector, coach, manager or captain (probably more of a thing in cricket), you have to try and bring the team with you.

[The_Gun]

Yeah, but were John and Sadlier turning up on a Saturday? Mostly not.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The fact that neither got a minute this season, even against Barrow, suggests that we may as well save their wages (whatever proportion of them we've saved via payoff/loan-out). But if we get an injury... we're a hostage to fortune.

[Worthy4England]

Before the "big freeze" last season, John had 4 goals, 6 assists the season prior...One more G+A than Bradley managed in more game time last year. Sadlier 1G+1A in ~300 minutes. Higher than Shortire and N'Lundulu added together who had 4x the gametime...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I don't think John and Sadlier were going to add much. But I would have liked them replaced.

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't think John and Sadlier were going to add much. But I would have liked them replaced.

The thing is Evatt bought them. We are at the point where he is discarding aside players he has bought. Whilst that is natural as the club progresses we are still in league one. The question to be answered is can Evatt maximise a squad that is below ideal to get them up. It’s not been answered yet. This season it may or may not be answered but ultimately fail this season and we would need managerial overperformance as the conditions would be very different next season.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I don't think John and Sadlier were going to add much. But I would have liked them replaced.

The thing is Evatt bought them. We are at the point where he is discarding aside players he has bought. Whilst that is natural as the club progresses we are still in league one.

John was signed in Div 4, Sadlier when we played 4-2-3-1. Plenty of bigger things to criticise.

I have no problem with managers setting standards and clubs cutting losses. I genuinely think that beyond Andranik syndrome there's no great loss in those two players. But I have a problem with the lack of improvement in the squad during this window, and specifically now with the lack of depth at wingback – a key position.

Had we signed Kane Wilson + JDC for RWB, that would be OK, and I might have been alright with Ashworth (or Iredale) as a defensive alternative to Randell. I hear from good authority that Wilson was deemed risky medically, but that was what, six weeks ago?

It's not the release of John and Sadlier - I want us to continue to strive to improve. All managers should; the alternative is stasis. But what we have here is a perilously thin squad. And Evatt's Wanderers have a history of injuries making autumn/winter very difficult.

[The_Gun]

I don't think John and Sadlier were going to add much. But I would have liked them replaced.

The thing is Evatt bought them. We are at the point where he is discarding aside players he has bought. Whilst that is natural as the club progresses we are still in league one. The question to be answered is can Evatt maximise a squad that is below ideal to get them up. It’s not been answered yet. This season it may or may not be answered but ultimately fail this season and we would need managerial overperformance as the conditions would be very different next season.

Show me a recruitment team with a 100% record.

[Worthy4England]

I don't think John and Sadlier were going to add much. But I would have liked them replaced.

I don't think this is entirely fair, unkess it's in the context of "because Evatt wasn't going to use them." I'm not campaigning that we should build a team around them at all nor even retaining them if we had replacements. Clearly not in Evatt's eyeline. I do think both were capable of adding goals and assists, moreso than some of the kids, in the here and now, despite their flaws.

If Randy was injured today, I'd probably prefer John on, to our current alternatives.

As to TG's 100% recruitment thing. I don't think anyone expects 100% recruitment. Just goid enough to meet the stated goals we're aiming for.

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't think John and Sadlier were going to add much. But I would have liked them replaced.

The thing is Evatt bought them. We are at the point where he is discarding aside players he has bought. Whilst that is natural as the club progresses we are still in league one.

John was signed in Div 4, Sadlier when we played 4-2-3-1. Plenty of bigger things to criticise.

I have no problem with managers setting standards and clubs cutting losses. I genuinely think that beyond Andranik syndrome there's no great loss in those two players. But I have a problem with the lack of improvement in the squad during this window, and specifically now with the lack of depth at wingback – a key position.

Had we signed Kane Wilson + JDC for RWB, that would be OK, and I might have been alright with Ashworth (or Iredale) as a defensive alternative to Randell. I hear from good authority that Wilson was deemed risky medically, but that was what, six weeks ago?

It's not the release of John and Sadlier - I want us to continue to strive to improve. All managers should; the alternative is stasis. But what we have here is a perilously thin squad. And Evatt's Wanderers have a history of injuries making autumn/winter very difficult.

Sadlier was signed post 352. Think we’d played it for two weeks then he signed.

But I think the issue is that for all the talk about judgement really good managers squeeze more out of players. Evatt seems to want to discard them without really squeezing them for all they’ve got.

[Prufrock]

Two whole weeks?

The laying down of markers for some future "I told you so" is as transparent as it is cringe.

Equally, I'm sure having looked to sign Wilson and then not got another RWB, I'm sure Evatt is delighted we haven't got one and would have turned Reece James down on a free.

I'm not exactly thrilled, and ultimately all managers live or die by results. Anything beyond that is tea leaf reading.

[Worthy4England]

We've got the whole, "it wasn't Markham's fault, it was the managers" to go too, yet.

There's a whole panoply nicely set up in the event success isn't imminent...

[BWFC_Insane]

Two whole weeks?

The laying down of markers for some future "I told you so" is as transparent as it is cringe.

Equally, I'm sure having looked to sign Wilson and then not got another RWB, I'm sure Evatt is delighted we haven't got one and would have turned Reece James down on a free.

I'm not exactly thrilled, and ultimately all managers live or die by results. Anything beyond that is tea leaf reading.

It’s not laying down markers. It’s just not true that we signed Sadlier expecting to play a different system or at least the idea we might play 352 existed then. I’m sure Evatt didn’t know how entrenched that system would become at the time and I’m sure work on Sadlier deal was before than anyway.

I’m just making the point. Evatt signed him. Hasn’t worked out and that’s not disastrous because sometimes things don’t. But we can’t keep that happening.

[Mar]

Two whole weeks?

The laying down of markers for some future "I told you so" is as transparent as it is cringe.

Equally, I'm sure having looked to sign Wilson and then not got another RWB, I'm sure Evatt is delighted we haven't got one and would have turned Reece James down on a free.

I'm not exactly thrilled, and ultimately all managers live or die by results. Anything beyond that is tea leaf reading.

It’s not laying down markers. It’s just not true that we signed Sadlier expecting to play a different system or at least the idea we might play 352 existed then. I’m sure Evatt didn’t know how entrenched that system would become at the time and I’m sure work on Sadlier deal was before than anyway.

I’m just making the point. Evatt signed him. Hasn’t worked out and that’s not disastrous because sometimes things don’t. But we can’t keep that happening.

Sure Evatt signed Sadlier, but you would argue that he sees him as a decent player that he tried to mould into his style of play. He hadn't managed that and all the matches where Sadlier was playing it seemed like it was contrary to what the team was trying to do. Still a good player and a goal threat, but not a fit for how we currently play, which I think is what cost him.

John, signed in L2 had Premier League pedigree. 20 appearances for Cardiff, sure he didnt set himself alight but you'd have to think he'd be contributing better than the output we were getting from him. We wanted a player that did the damage on the left side, like we've had with Fossey, JDC, Kioso, etc. John hadn't lived up to that billing and you can hopefully expect Randell to come good there. Add to that a perceived lack of effort and wage cost and its probably the right call for Evatt.

Still, we've started well and look to have missed out on a chance of really kicking on with newer players in problem areas. Reminds me of the last Sam Allardyce transfer window where we signed David Thompson in the hopes of pushing for a Champions League spot. Wasn't going to happen with that transfer strategy back then, hopefully it doesn't cost us this time round.

[Worthy4England]

I'm pretty sure when we signed Sads, IE said something like not worked out for him at Rotherham as they're trying to play him as a left wing-back...so we can offer him something different...I doubt Sads had RWB in mind...

[Prufrock]

Aye we'd played a couple of games but I don't think it was nailed on at that point but then results dictated.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Aye we'd played a couple of games but I don't think it was nailed on at that point but then results dictated.

If I recall correctly, we'd signed a RB who couldn't defend – to pair with the LB who wouldn't...

[Prufrock]

That has to be a red!

[sonicthewhite]

That has to be a red!

Errrrrrr t'other thread

[Prufrock]

Errr I meant signing two full backs who can't defend. Honest!