Wanderers Bond

[truewhite15]

Thoughts? All investments are risky, but to this layman it seems like a decent opportunity...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Further reading
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... need-know/

[Harry Genshaw]

Funnily enough we'd just been thinking about getting some premium bonds. Might as well chuck the money this way instead.

[BWFC_Insane]

Bit conflicted on it. On the one hand it’s a good scheme to let people invest in the club, clearly defined risks and very decent payouts and returns.

On the other I can’t help feel that it blends a dangerous mix of folk who want to make sound financial decisions for their families with their love for their local football club. And that to me is potentially dangerous.

I’ve already seen loads who seem to think this is akin to ‘buying shares’ and it isn’t. It’s a loan. Outside the protections afforded to some financial investments.

What is the consequence for the club if in 5 years they decide they are unable to repay the loans and interest and default?

[Bertie Wooster]

It looks like its a decent investment opportunity with a good return, but there is quite a risk as BWFCI says. However, it comes across a little as the club is skint and need the fans to provide the revenue to enable the club to progress further, more than a nice gesture allowing the supporters to invest in the club and get a decent return on investment.

Surely Sharon, Michael James & Luckcock could come up with £3.5M between them ?

[DJBlu]

Bit conflicted on it. On the one hand it’s a good scheme to let people invest in the club, clearly defined risks and very decent payouts and returns.

On the other I can’t help feel that it blends a dangerous mix of folk who want to make sound financial decisions for their families with their love for their local football club. And that to me is potentially dangerous.

I’ve already seen loads who seem to think this is akin to ‘buying shares’ and it isn’t. It’s a loan. Outside the protections afforded to some financial investments.

What is the consequence for the club if in 5 years they decide they are unable to repay the loans and interest and default?

More chance of an extension to pay back the money should there be the need for it as people will be emotionally attached to the cash and club.

[BWFC_Insane]

Bit conflicted on it. On the one hand it’s a good scheme to let people invest in the club, clearly defined risks and very decent payouts and returns.

On the other I can’t help feel that it blends a dangerous mix of folk who want to make sound financial decisions for their families with their love for their local football club. And that to me is potentially dangerous.

I’ve already seen loads who seem to think this is akin to ‘buying shares’ and it isn’t. It’s a loan. Outside the protections afforded to some financial investments.

What is the consequence for the club if in 5 years they decide they are unable to repay the loans and interest and default?

More chance of an extension to pay back the money should there be the need for it as people will be emotionally attached to the cash and club.

How would an extension be agreed unilaterally and what about those who need their money?

I also am thinking that five years is a long time. Maybe the ownership is different. Yes if the club is sold you get repaid but what about some of the current ownership pull out we have new investors on board…maybe more ruthless who decide to default rather than worry about the repayment…

I’m not saying that will happen but just that we’ve all seen enough in football to know it’s far from impossible.

[BWFC_Insane]

It looks like its a decent investment opportunity with a good return, but there is quite a risk as BWFCI says. However, it comes across a little as the club is skint and need the fans to provide the revenue to enable the club to progress further, more than a nice gesture allowing the supporters to invest in the club and get a decent return on investment.

Surely Sharon, Michael James & Luckcock could come up with £3.5M between them ?

Well yeah but then they’d need another £3.5M and so on…

Other clubs have done this and I’m not really sure that it indicates anything beyond a novel way of raising investment though it is in effect a loan…so a novel way of raising cash.

This isn’t to replace the owners investment it is to supplement it. But we aren’t bankrolled by people who are able to dip into their pockets and splurge out £3M quid every year - which is approx what we lost in last accounts.

Assuming next year we lose a similar amount or maybe a couple of million if we are roughly in line with spending that means the owners have to write a cheque to cover that to simply keep things even. Whereas this would offer up cash for extras like the pitch at lostock, the sports science stuff etc…

[boltonboris]

"The club is firmly against promoting any gambling to our supporters

But please, give us some cash and if makes money great, but a large chance you'll lose the lot.."

May as well go to the casino and put your £500 on Red, or Black

Also a scheme where you can't cut your losses. You can't sell your shares back to the club. You can't pull your money out when it starts going to shit. It's a win a little, or lose it all scheme and it feck* stinks to be honest

[BWFC_Insane]

"The club is firmly against promoting any gambling to our supporters

But please, give us some cash and if makes money great, but a large chance you'll lose the lot.."

May as well go to the casino and put your £500 on Red, or Black

Also a scheme where you can't cut your losses. You can't sell your shares back to the club. You can't pull your money out when it starts going to shit. It's a win a little, or lose it all scheme and it feck* stinks to be honest

I think that’s a bit harsh but it does feel a mix of ‘yeah solid idea’ to ‘bit uncomfortable’ I’d say.

They aren’t hiding what it is and people have the information to make a decision.

And I don’t think it’s some terrible scheme either the payouts are good there is some risk but it’s not uncommon for investments. The problem is the fallout should it go wrong is far larger than normal.

[Spartan2]

"The club is firmly against promoting any gambling to our supporters

But please, give us some cash and if makes money great, but a large chance you'll lose the lot.."

May as well go to the casino and put your £500 on Red, or Black

Also a scheme where you can't cut your losses. You can't sell your shares back to the club. You can't pull your money out when it starts going to shit. It's a win a little, or lose it all scheme and it feck* stinks to be honest

Spot on. This is not an investment.

[GhostoftheBok]

They are shifting the risk of a loan default off themselves and onto the fans.

It's as basic as that.

[GhostoftheBok]

The club is saying they've registered over 2000 people to get in on these bonds on Thursday - which would be over £1m at the minimum rate of £500.

I really hope it's only people who can genuinely afford it and they're viewing it as essentially a gift to the club.

[BWFC_Insane]

The club is saying they've registered over 2000 people to get in on these bonds on Thursday - which would be over £1m at the minimum rate of £500.

I really hope it's only people who can genuinely afford it and they're viewing it as essentially a gift to the club.

Lots of people and businesses make similar investments.

The returns are very good here.

The risk - compared to other investments is arguably lower or at least more defined. Your risk is Football Ventures going bust OR making a calculation that they can afford to alienate the fanbase by defaulting on the loan.

Now its not risk free at all - and I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the model BUT they were very upfront that you could lose all your money. The bit I'm not comfortable with is that this will obviously attract people who don't make these investments normally and that's not ideal....

[GhostoftheBok]

This is the issue, if people can afford to do it it's fine. However, people's financial decisions go to pot around footy and clubs know that.

[GhostoftheBok]

Over £1m already.

That's a new pitch and a good amount of the training ground issues sorted.

I really hope it all goes well.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Over £1m already.

That's a new pitch and a good amount of the training ground issues sorted.

I really hope it all goes well.

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[GhostoftheBok]

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Yeah, I saw that. Like I say, I hope everyone gets their money back and all the interest payments they're hoping for.

£2m is not chump change in our situation and I'm sure that cash influx will have huge ramifications. We got a similar cash influx last season as a result of the solidarity payment, but it's not obvious that will repeat itself if we're still down here next term.

I do wonder if any of this cash will find its way onto the pitch. I sort of hope not. I'd like it to go on long term costs, but it's football.

[KeyserSoze]

As someone who works in this field or adjacent to it at least I do have a worry about how this has been marketed and if it might come back to bite us in the backside.

I'll need to do some digging into the regs and while I would hope the brass have done their homework there are aspects of this that have me quite....

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[boltonboris]

As someone who works in this field or adjacent to it at least I do have a worry about how this has been marketed and if it might come back to bite us in the backside.

I'll need to do some digging into the regs and while I would hope the brass have done their homework there are aspects of this that have me quite....

.

Interesting! And welcome back!