Season 22/23 In Review

[Worthy4England]

I guess the good news is Rice looks like he's off from West Ham....Maybe we could get Dapo to put a word in...

[GhostoftheBok]

I guess the good news is Rice looks like he's off from West Ham....Maybe we could get Dapo to put a word in...

"Don't go, mate. Evatt will probably play you at centre back."

[Harry Genshaw]

Good write up Insane. I enjoyed that. Food for thought too.

Biggest issue though;

I think it sort of shows what we're seeing, which is too laboured in oppo third...

Wembley was a wonderful day and showed what the side is capable of and led to optimism amongst some that we'd be good enough when it mattered. We weren't.

You'd like to think we could sort this in the coming pre season but it was a problem all season long that was never fixed. A few late wins when we chucked all our forwards on (Fleetwood, Accy, Burton) masked the lame performances v Morecambe, Cambridge, Forest Green etc when we sideways passes ourselves to a standstill. Reasonable performances against the better sides, notably Wednesday away, you still couldn't get away from the fact that we hadn't had a bloody shot.

It was fitting that the season petered out over 180 minutes where we passed the ball slowly amongst ourselves and created absolutely nowt. A goal down in that 2nd leg, we get a throw in just near the opposition box. Perhaps a chance to use William's long throw, give their keeper something to think about? Within 2 touches it was back with Traf.

An enjoyable season overall but maddening too.

[Bertie Wooster]

Great post HG, agree with everything and its exactly my take on the season.

The slow, boring sideways & backwards passing at the back frustrates me a lot, especially when after passing it about at the back the keeper just aimlessly boots it forward, it doesn't tire the opposition out at all because its so slow - it just lets them get back into position. There is a general lack of intensity in our play apart from maybe 10 mins a game.

It's possession for possessions sake & is so slow and predictable, it needs to change and evolve if we are to get anywhere near the top two positions next year. The majority of fans where I sit hate it (not the possession / passing but how slow & ponderous the passing is) and sit shaking their heads imploring the team to move the ball quicker.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

This is why I say it might not be nice were we to get promoted and lose more than we win.

We lost 2 in the last 12 and got to the playoffs (setting a club record for clean sheets) in the same season we won a cup gloriously at Wembley, and yet a sense of dissatisfaction lingers.

I'm not saying people are wrong to be dissatisfied. I'm just saying the first season after promotion would be difficult.

[BWFC_Insane]

This is why I say it might not be nice were we to get promoted and lose more than we win.

We lost 2 in the last 12 and got to the playoffs (setting a club record for clean sheets) in the same season we won a cup gloriously at Wembley, and yet a sense of dissatisfaction lingers.

I'm not saying people are wrong to be dissatisfied. I'm just saying the first season after promotion would be difficult.

Its always going to be no matter when.

I don't think there is a wide sense of dissatisfaction.

I think that a) the football we play isn't massively entertaining - going every week isn't a great joy in that sense - we're not seeing Rioch style football - its quite mediocre but is what it is
b) the tools Evatt needs to make us better aren't that crazy or difficult to find so hopefully we can fix some of those issues but those tools may need us to tweak some things. If for example we get better delivery from out wide then we better start delivering the ball into the box earlier - which may mean we don't have as much possession but create more chances.

People can criticise and I think during the season there were points that criticism was valid. We didn't get everything right. The end point we had 81 points and I think if I'm being brutally honest with the players we had that was more or less where I think we should have been. You can argue a few either side of that number - start of the season I felt we should be mid to high 80's but we weren't orders of magnitude off.

Evatt has already identified this but one of the issues now is next season is promotion or nothing. Nobody cares how we play or what the style is so long as the results are there to win promotion. This is a tough league to get out of but next season for the club in so many ways has become make or break. There isn't anymore progress now that doesn't see us go up. That's pressure. Pressure to get the summer right to hit the ground running to be consistent and to fix the issues with creating chances and scoring goals. I'm not sure pressure is an entirely bad thing but its a new dynamic to work through.

Sharon has said this week she promises the 'progress won't plateau'. Good statement but again it piles the pressure on.

The club cannot afford another season of near miss. I think that would result in wider dissatisfaction - and now many have money directly invested riding on the club's success - not to mention I think we'd see ST numbers dwindle.

[Worthy4England]

This is why I say it might not be nice were we to get promoted and lose more than we win.

We lost 2 in the last 12 and got to the playoffs (setting a club record for clean sheets) in the same season we won a cup gloriously at Wembley, and yet a sense of dissatisfaction lingers.

I'm not saying people are wrong to be dissatisfied. I'm just saying the first season after promotion would be difficult.

I'm not sure there's a realistic example of getting promoted and losing more than you win...(or are you saying "if we got promoted we could end up losing more than we win, the season later?")

Part of the "selling point" of this style of football, is that some argue, they'd much rather watch it, than - using the other extreme - 442 hoof, put it in the mixer, get a big lad up top etc. The counter, that I think we're seeing in quite a few comments, is that actually, for the most part, it's fundamentally boring (especially maybe, where 1-0's are concerned) as you often see us with significant periods of ball retention that often hasn't gone anywhere useful - even if it made it to the final third reasonably quickly - which it still often doesn't.

The other element, was successful teams use a similar approach - this sort of implies that you need to be successful (comparatively)

I think we've all watched plenty of games this season, where we've been completely mystified, because <Player> didn't pull the trigger and have a go. We've certainly all watched us labour round a low-block, with little real belief that we have the tools to open that low block leading to a goal (or if we do, it's maybe once in the match)

Whilst we're doing all this against a backdrop of progress - and I suspect this year has probably been the most marginal of Evatt's progress years - I think it sorta washes its face. I think should it stultify or go backwards, then I suspect you'll hear a fair bit more on the topic.

Edit - I see Insano has already set the bar....

[GhostoftheBok]

I'm not saying people are wrong to be dissatisfied.

I am.

The people who are dissatisfied are absolutely wrong to be so.

Sod 'em.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm not saying people are wrong to be dissatisfied.

I am.

The people who are dissatisfied are absolutely wrong to be so.

Sod 'em.

Ian Evatt will be more than dissatisfied. So will Sharon.

You wouldn't want it any other way.

I think fans being dissatisfied with the season as a whole - I don't think many if any are. It was a great season. That finished a bit disappointingly but be honest - most expected that. It didn't post Wembley (at least to me) ever really feel like we were going to go up. Once the Wembley glow and thrill wore off it did feel like that was the peak.

But next season the pressure is firmly on. As Evatt has already said.

[BWFC_Insane]

This is why I say it might not be nice were we to get promoted and lose more than we win.

We lost 2 in the last 12 and got to the playoffs (setting a club record for clean sheets) in the same season we won a cup gloriously at Wembley, and yet a sense of dissatisfaction lingers.

I'm not saying people are wrong to be dissatisfied. I'm just saying the first season after promotion would be difficult.

I'm not sure there's a realistic example of getting promoted and losing more than you win...(or are you saying "if we got promoted we could end up losing more than we win, the season later?")

Part of the "selling point" of this style of football, is that some argue, they'd much rather watch it, than - using the other extreme - 442 hoof, put it in the mixer, get a big lad up top etc. The counter, that I think we're seeing in quite a few comments, is that actually, for the most part, it's fundamentally boring (especially maybe, where 1-0's are concerned) as you often see us with significant periods of ball retention that often hasn't gone anywhere useful - even if it made it to the final third reasonably quickly - which it still often doesn't.

The other element, was successful teams use a similar approach - this sort of implies that you need to be successful (comparatively)

I think we've all watched plenty of games this season, where we've been completely mystified, because <Player> didn't pull the trigger and have a go. We've certainly all watched us labour round a low-block, with little real belief that we have the tools to open that low block leading to a goal (or if we do, it's maybe once in the match)

Whilst we're doing all this against a backdrop of progress - and I suspect this year has probably been the most marginal of Evatt's progress years - I think it sorta washes its face. I think should it stultify or go backwards, then I suspect you'll hear a fair bit more on the topic.

Edit - I see Insano has already set the bar....

I don't think the football we play matters if it achieves the end goal.

And I don't think anyone wants to be playing hoofball or 442 or whatever - I think personally its that I'd like to see us more able to up the tempo in different types of games. We are very much dependent on the tempo existing naturally in the game we cannot seemingly raise it ourselves. That's not easy to do but we might need to be flexible to do it. Sometimes just put crosses in if a team is camped in there. Make them defend. Turn them round. Or have those pacy dribblers who scare defences when they run at them. All of that makes us more exciting to watch. I think. But isn't about going to a basic 'lump it at the big man'.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Whilst we're doing all this against a backdrop of progress - and I suspect this year has probably been the most marginal of Evatt's progress years - I think it sorta washes its face. I think should it stultify or go backwards, then I suspect you'll hear a fair bit more on the topic.

Edit - I see Insano has already set the bar....

Ha yeah. But that's the point. I would argue that last season (as in 21/22) was progress on the previous (promotion) season, but we won fewer - particularly before Christmas - and the angst was loud and long. I would furthermore posit that the divisional gap above us is larger than the one below, so we might have more trouble overcoming it. At which point, cometh the angst again

[GhostoftheBok]

Ian Evatt will be more than dissatisfied. So will Sharon.

You wouldn't want it any other way.

There's a difference between dissatisfaction in detail and general dissatisfaction. Which you know.

Sharon is not dissatisfied with Evatt or his football. Far from it.

You're playing semantics.

I was dissatisfied with the cup of tea my wife made once, but I didn't suggest the marriage was on a knife's edge.

[BWFC_Insane]

Ian Evatt will be more than dissatisfied. So will Sharon.

You wouldn't want it any other way.

There's a difference between dissatisfaction in detail and general dissatisfaction. Which you know.

Sharon is not dissatisfied with Evatt or his football. Far from it.

You're playing semantics.

I was dissatisfied with the cup of tea my wife made once, but I didn't suggest the marriage was on a knife's edge.

Well I haven't seen anyone say 'Evatt needs to go' in response to the season. Nor that they were dissatisfied either.

Dissatisfaction with the outcome is what drives Evatt and Sharon on. Any suggestion they are happy is misplaced.

They've both said in different words that next season we will go a step further - which is exactly what you'd want.

The point I'd worry is where there was an air of 'well we've done our best and that's it' - but they definitely aren't saying that.

[GhostoftheBok]

Well I haven't seen anyone say 'Evatt needs to go' in response to the season. Nor that they were dissatisfied either.

Dissatisfaction with the outcome is what drives Evatt and Sharon on. Any suggestion they are happy is misplaced.

They've both said in different words that next season we will go a step further - which is exactly what you'd want.

The point I'd worry is where there was an air of 'well we've done our best and that's it' - but they definitely aren't saying that.

There definitely are people who still want Evatt gone. I meet them at the ground and encounter them online. You'll always have that, though. They should be ignored.

In the sense of "what does dissatisfaction mean here?" I was 'dissatisfied' when Allardyce didn't win a cup. I was 'dissatisfied' when we didn't finish 4th (Sam was dissatisfied enough to leave). I wasn't a "dissatisfied" fan, though.

Pep will be "dissatisfied" if they win the treble this season, because they didn't win the quad. He'll be stewing over what didn't work over the summer, as much as enjoying what did. He's not a "dissatisfied" manager.

Like I say, it's semantics. Dissatisfaction drives elite sport. However, there's the general and the detailed. Detailed is almost always reasonable and functional.

I could (and have) bore you all with myriad examples of where I'm dissatisfied. Evatt's still doing a great job.

[Worthy4England]

Ian Evatt will be more than dissatisfied. So will Sharon.

You wouldn't want it any other way.

There's a difference between dissatisfaction in detail and general dissatisfaction. Which you know.

Sharon is not dissatisfied with Evatt or his football. Far from it.

You're playing semantics.

I was dissatisfied with the cup of tea my wife made once, but I didn't suggest the marriage was on a knife's edge.

Knife's edge? Getting the tea wrong is an instant dismissal after appropriate training.

I agree there are differing levels of dissatisfaction and whilst we continue to see (footballing) progress, I think it's fine. But we've seen teams "there and there abouts" for more years than they might have imagined in L1, without getting promoted. I do wonder how many of them it would take to flip people from broadly satisfied to absolutely not happy. I suspect there would be some tilt towards dissatisfaction should we not maybe get to the PO finals next year (at least)...

Anyone following the match threads on here, would probably spot that there are certainly a hardcore, who might be roughly on-side but aren't necessarily "delighted customers" - perhaps more "obligated" Edit: and not coming away from most matches saying "wow that was brilliant"

[BWFC_Insane]

Well I haven't seen anyone say 'Evatt needs to go' in response to the season. Nor that they were dissatisfied either.

Dissatisfaction with the outcome is what drives Evatt and Sharon on. Any suggestion they are happy is misplaced.

They've both said in different words that next season we will go a step further - which is exactly what you'd want.

The point I'd worry is where there was an air of 'well we've done our best and that's it' - but they definitely aren't saying that.

There definitely are people who still want Evatt gone. I meet them at the ground and encounter them online. You'll always have that, though. They should be ignored.

In the sense of "what does dissatisfaction mean here?" I was 'dissatisfied' when Allardyce didn't win a cup. I was 'dissatisfied' when we didn't finish 4th (Sam was dissatisfied enough to leave). I wasn't a "dissatisfied" fan, though.

Pep will be "dissatisfied" if they win the treble this season, because they didn't win the quad. He'll be stewing over what didn't work over the summer, as much as enjoying what did. He's not a "dissatisfied" manager.

Like I say, it's semantics. Dissatisfaction drives elite sport. However, there's the general and the detailed. Detailed is almost always reasonable and functional.

I could (and have) bore you all with myriad examples of where I'm dissatisfied. Evatt's still doing a great job.

There were people who wanted Allardyce out when we were finishing in European places....its absolutely always going to be a small minority.

I think everyone can become frustrated. I can't think of how we could even begin to upgrade on Evatt. He's learning still but he's absolutely best placed to carry on the improvement.

But that doesn't mean there isn't pressure to achieve promotion next season. There is. And absolutely should be.

[GhostoftheBok]

I agree there are differing levels of dissatisfaction and whilst we continue to see (footballing) progress, I think it's fine. But we've seen teams "there and there abouts" for more years than they might have imagined in L1, without getting promoted. I do wonder how many of them it would take to flip people from broadly satisfied to absolutely not happy. I suspect there would be some tilt towards dissatisfaction should we not maybe get to the PO finals next year (at least)...

Anyone following the match threads on here, would probably spot that there are certainly a hardcore, who might be roughly on-side but aren't necessarily "delighted customers" - perhaps more "obligated" Edit: and not coming away from most matches saying "wow that was brilliant"

I wrote a whole thing and managed to bore even myself.

We need some incisiveness. We have needed it for ages. I was "dissatisfied" (really annoyed) with what we didn't get done in the summer to achieve that. It needs to happen this summer.

It's all recruitment now, though. Not coaching. It's not Evatt that will stop this team being promoted next season, it's the playing squad.

Take Saka and Odegaard out of Arsenal and they're nowhere close to bothering City at any stage.

Some of our players will improve season on season, but there's nobody who is going to rip a team to bits every week for our viewing pleasure. We had Dapo, but to build the structure we needed for a title run he had to be sacrificed for a change in shape. That title run is now possible.

So it's now about talent ID. Who can we afford who will terrify teams? I feel we've missed a few previously and the talent is there. It's there on frees, or for money in Leagues One and Two. We've been excellent thus far at identifying the right players to give us the solid shire horse...now we need that tiara. I'm sure that's what Megson meant...

[GhostoftheBok]

But that doesn't mean there isn't pressure to achieve promotion next season. There is. And absolutely should be.

Sure. I think we're actually reversed on last summer for this, as I rate our forwards this time and you don't. So I should probably be more demanding than you are.

The issue for me is that most transfers for us will be 6 months behind. We'll sign a player, they'll have to do all this detail work to learn the patterns and triggers and after about 6 months we'll start to see what they're really like.

Explosiveness and athleticism can mean that a player has a more immediate impact (as can an amazing brain), but most new signings will need time.

We probably can't afford a slow start, so it's how we square the circle of needing to add quality to the side and avoiding the bedding in period.

When I talk about improvements it's always in terms of where we need to be to win the league. Nothing else. So in that sense I'm always dissatisfied.

To win this league we need to get the keeping decisions right, improve out depth of options at the back, improve delivery from deep and add that old thing of "pace and flair" in attack. In first 11 terms that's between 3 and 5 players.

[TANGODANCER]

A capital sin/error, is the assumption that judgements/opinions are universal (even in Bolton) and that ones views are shared by all. In truth, we have no idea what next season is going to bring any more than the next man. Hope springs eternal and that's about all we have, but then again, keeping the faith isn't a sin either. Just thought I'd mention it...

COME ON YOU WHITES ...

[Worthy4England]

For me Ghost, there is a difference between "successful and entertaining" - I suspect there's quite a few (maybe most) who would say we were generally successful against pre-season expectations, but not necessarily well entertained, probably, more often than not. Those were the comments I was referring to. I also think because of the work related element, you probably have a different viewing experience than some others (me included - I'm generally happy when we win, irrespective).

Of course you can achieve both, by getting signings the likes of which you suggest, but there is only so long, people are likely to accept the status quo, albeit that might stretch to a season/18 months. I don't think there's a turning point in the here and now. I also think that might not be the case were we in 12th come December next year.

There have been plenty of threads over the season, certainly early doors, mentioning how uninspiring we were to watch...