2023 Retained List

[BWFC_Insane]

It was certainly an "interesting set of words" describing MJ's extension...something short of "we're delighted"....

For MF, I think we need 2 better than what we have and wouldn't have been too upset, had we let Josh move on...but then I'd have wanted 3 new ones...

I love Sheehan. I loved that we signed him (I don't think we got the right players to support him) and I love that he's set so many doubters right. So in that sense I'm pleased he's been offered a deal. It's just about how much we can improve. If MJ isn't really one of the 6 midfield options then we can do something attacking and something deeper and we're fine. If we can only do one of the two then that one we pick will need to have a pretty amazing impact.

I don't want to come across as down, or disliking the players we've kept. I just think it's a huge leap to 100 points and whilst we likely won't get there we need to be very ambitious.

I am wondering about Sads. He moved out on loan and it doesn't seem to have gone brilliantly. I wonder if he'd be willing to knuckle down and be back-up RWB, or if the willingness to play a system just isn't in him.

MJ can cover the back three.

I’m not sure that we need worry too much about how many players we have in positions. We need to replace Lee and a Kachunga. That might be with another striker and a number 10 or a number 8 and a number 10 or something else. Two players there. Replace Bradley, Trafford and Isgrove. That’s 5 signings. Dixon - 6.

Then loanees maybe to replace one or two 8.

How many signings are feasible in a summer when it isn’t just filling numbers?

Yes we might have some areas with lots of competition. That’s good. We can sell players, loan them or move them on in January if it’s not working out.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

On Nlundulu: how would people feel if he came back on loan? Wouldn't be our risk, but also wouldn't be our poitential upside - if he suddenly scored 30 (and don't forget Dapo took a while to ignite) he'd be a free agent...
.

If MJ isn't really one of the 6 midfield options then we can do something attacking and something deeper and we're fine. If we can only do one of the two then that one we pick will need to have a pretty amazing impact.

In terms of squad numbers, we can cake-and-eat-it by calling MJ the reserve for Santos, even though he's only needed in emergencies (and I might still prefer to develop Toal there), yet still being able to play him in midfield. Wage-wise, he's only on one wage. Where you actually lose out, presuming no other centre-back leaves, is the option to flex up by getting a better "sixth" centre-back.

I am wondering about Sads. He moved out on loan and it doesn't seem to have gone brilliantly. I wonder if he'd be willing to knuckle down and be back-up RWB, or if the willingness to play a system just isn't in him.

That might be a question only he can answer. But it does strike me that if by chance we needed to switch systems - this being the first Evatt season we haven't - then he and Randy are the only wingers in the building.

[GhostoftheBok]

MJ can cover the back three.

I’m not sure that we need worry too much about how many players we have in positions. We need to replace Lee and a Kachunga. That might be with another striker and a number 10 or a number 8 and a number 10 or something else. Two players there. Replace Bradley, Trafford and Isgrove. That’s 5 signings. Dixon - 6.

Then loanees maybe to replace one or two 8.

How many signings are feasible in a summer when it isn’t just filling numbers?

Yes we might have some areas with lots of competition. That’s good. We can sell players, loan them or move them on in January if it’s not working out.

That *sounds* reasonable, but for me I think we're in a tough situation if we're not at our most ambitious here.

We've lost two of our best players - so obviously those need doing.

The manager tried to add a "special" attacking mid, so you'd assume that also needs doing.

So you're three nailed on first teamers in and you're thus far looking at fairly marginal gains, assuming they all work out.

So it's only 3 first team signings in that you're starting the big movement forward to get towards top two - where the teams finished 40 goals and 20 points ahead of you.

That kind of improvement won't just come from first teamers, it also have to come from a general improvement in the squad. That takes a decent number of changes. Not just 3-4.

Our aim here isn't just to be better, it's to be the very best.

There's always a chance that you can get a truly special player in who lifts everything you do. It's not a reliable thing, though.

Being positive, you can say that players like Vik and Williams will have had 6 months of working with Evatt on his methods and there will be natural improvement in them and the youngsters. We'll see how it goes. At the end of the day all we've done is keep 3 good players. It's not exactly a huge issue.

What Evatt has said is that he believes there is "much more to come from this group" and we just have to trust that he can see that in training. I suspect we've bet on it.

It's also worth noting that it's possible Evatt hasn't given up on his switch-hitting squad that can play 3-5-2 and 4-3-3. In which case all bets are off in terms of me guessing what we'll do.

[The_Gun]

Seems very unlikely we’d be looking to keep Sads around. Him and John moving on to pastures new would also likely free up another decent chunk of wages.

[BWFC_Insane]

MJ can cover the back three.

I’m not sure that we need worry too much about how many players we have in positions. We need to replace Lee and a Kachunga. That might be with another striker and a number 10 or a number 8 and a number 10 or something else. Two players there. Replace Bradley, Trafford and Isgrove. That’s 5 signings. Dixon - 6.

Then loanees maybe to replace one or two 8.

How many signings are feasible in a summer when it isn’t just filling numbers?

Yes we might have some areas with lots of competition. That’s good. We can sell players, loan them or move them on in January if it’s not working out.

That *sounds* reasonable, but for me I think we're in a tough situation if we're not at our most ambitious here.

We've lost two of our best players - so obviously those need doing.

The manager tried to add a "special" attacking mid, so you'd assume that also needs doing.

So you're three nailed on first teamers in and you're thus far looking at fairly marginal gains, assuming they all work out.

So it's only 3 first team signings in that you're starting the big movement forward to get towards top two - where the teams finished 40 goals and 20 points ahead of you.

That kind of improvement won't just come from first teamers, it also have to come from a general improvement in the squad. That takes a decent number of changes. Not just 3-4.

Our aim here isn't just to be better, it's to be the very best.

There's always a chance that you can get a truly special player in who lifts everything you do. It's not a reliable thing, though.

Being positive, you can say that players like Vik and Williams will have had 6 months of working with Evatt on his methods and there will be natural improvement in them and the youngsters. We'll see how it goes. At the end of the day all we've done is keep 3 good players. It's not exactly a huge issue.

What Evatt has said is that he believes there is "much more to come from this group" and we just have to trust that he can see that in training. I suspect we've bet on it.

It's also worth noting that it's possible Evatt hasn't given up on his switch-hitting squad that can play 3-5-2 and 4-3-3. In which case all bets are off in terms of me guessing what we'll do.

I see it a little differently. We need to replace Traff and Brads. After that for me two very very good players could be enough to get us promotion. They’d have to be really good ones. But I still think we will sign more than that. But quality is the key. Not numbers. Quality.

[GhostoftheBok]

I see it a little differently. We need to replace Traff and Brads. After that for me two very very good players could be enough to get us promotion. They’d have to be really good ones. But I still think we will sign more than that. But quality is the key. Not numbers. Quality.

I agree quality is the most important issue. Generally there's enough depth for us to be picky.

One aspect of this is that if Iredale and Dad Bod can stay fit they will essentially be new signings. We know both are good players, so there's improvement to be had there. I'm sort of inclined to see the post-Jan improvement chart as "Bod is better than Kacha" and "Iredale is better than Mbete."

We could be two VERY good first team players off a proper push, I agree. But they'd need to be VERY good. Not just on a level with our good players in the squad currently. However, that's 4 top players in total for us to hit our target and they'd all have to land with a bang.

[BWFC_Insane]

I see it a little differently. We need to replace Traff and Brads. After that for me two very very good players could be enough to get us promotion. They’d have to be really good ones. But I still think we will sign more than that. But quality is the key. Not numbers. Quality.

I agree quality is the most important issue. Generally there's enough depth for us to be picky.

One aspect of this is that if Iredale and Dad Bod can stay fit they will essentially be new signings. We know both are good players, so there's improvement to be had there. I'm sort of inclined to see the post-Jan improvement chart as "Bod is better than Kacha" and "Iredale is better than Mbete."

We could be two VERY good first team players off a proper push, I agree. But they'd need to be VERY good. Not just on a level with our good players in the squad currently. However, that's 4 top players in total for us to hit our target and they'd all have to land with a bang.

Agreed. I think we will find out how far FV are able to push it this summer. Likes of Shoretire are not for me what is needed to get us promotion. Might be good long term beta but if it was me in charge I’d go for the most quality we could afford. Even if it meant signing fewer.

[GhostoftheBok]

Agreed. I think we will find out how far FV are able to push it this summer. Likes of Shoretire are not for me what is needed to get us promotion. Might be good long term beta but if it was me in charge I’d go for the most quality we could afford. Even if it meant signing fewer.

I suppose we at least know that the preferred target "sort of looks like" Shoretire.

Evatt was full of praise for him when asked, but he's hardly going to say "Nah, waste of space" about a Utd player when we want that relationship to continue. I thought the kid was much improved against Bristol. However, I'm also inclined to say I'd like a more experienced player in there - even if it's only by a couple of seasons.

I'll wait and see how ambitious we are. Part of me worries we might be all talk here. I know a lot of people have fawned over the Evatt and Sharon comments about no plateau and turning over every stone - but I've been in clubs with not much to spend before and heard the same comments from front of house as we were scrabbling to come up with cash for half the players we needed. "No stone left unturned" tends to mean "We're struggling to find what we need on our budget" in my experience.

Using the Bond to raise funds may mean we can put the existing finances towards playing costs and we're freeing up some wages.

[Prufrock]

On Nlundulu: how would people feel if he came back on loan? Wouldn't be our risk, but also wouldn't be our poitential upside - if he suddenly scored 30 (and don't forget Dapo took a while to ignite) he'd be a free agent...

Not for me. We either don't get a tune out of him, in which case he's been a waste of a place (and while I think there's a player in there, he's a long way off being a sure bet) or we do and he's not ours.

You never know but if he's a perm I'd expect a free or nominal fee and haggling over a % of a sell on.

On the midfield I have no issue with Demos, Morley and Sheehan I like them all. The issue for me is we've had to run two of them ragged. I'd be happy with two more of similar quality but probably different types.

Shoretire I think there's definitely a player in there, but he's another I think is naturally a winger. All his best games for us came starting up top dropping in rather than at 10.

[brommers95]

On Nlundulu: how would people feel if he came back on loan? Wouldn't be our risk, but also wouldn't be our poitential upside - if he suddenly scored 30 (and don't forget Dapo took a while to ignite) he'd be a free agent...

Not for me. We either don't get a tune out of him, in which case he's been a waste of a place (and while I think there's a player in there, he's a long way off being a sure bet) or we do and he's not ours.

You never know but if he's a perm I'd expect a free or nominal fee and haggling over a % of a sell on.

On the midfield I have no issue with Demos, Morley and Sheehan I like them all. The issue for me is we've had to run two of them ragged. I'd be happy with two more of similar quality but probably different types.

Shoretire I think there's definitely a player in there, but he's another I think is naturally a winger. All his best games for us came starting up top dropping in rather than at 10.

Your thinking is correct Prufrock. He played mostly as a winger for Manchester u18s and u21s so it was a bit perplexing us trying to turn him into a no.10 in his first loan in senior football. Playing on the wing in youth footy is a hell of a lot different to playing in the centre of the park in men's football. We need to sign a quality no.10 this summer if we're serious about automatic promotion.

[GhostoftheBok]

On the midfield I have no issue with Demos, Morley and Sheehan I like them all. The issue for me is we've had to run two of them ragged. I'd be happy with two more of similar quality but probably different types.

That Morley and Dempsey deep midfield has shown it can be exceptional against the right opponents. Equally, Sheehan has shown he is a very classy player.

The issues we have are that none of them can break through a packed midfield (we have to pass around) and none of them can play effectively as an orthodox 10.

If we can only fix one, we should fix 10 - but to be able to win the league I think we need to fix both issues.

I am happy with every player in the prospective squad (bar John and Sads), but there's a lot we can't do.

If we need to fix the 6 on the cheap we can do that. I don't think there's a cheap fix at 10 in the current market, but we may find one. No doubt Dan Crawley's name will crop up again.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

DSB, you're up. How are we for squad registration rules for next season with the current lot?

<cracks knuckles, chews pen lid>

I make it 5 spaces for overage outfielders.

Show your working-out in the margins:
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... gulations/
has the rules for season 22/23 (so we have the usual caveat that they might change their mind).
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... --players/ says:

44.9 Squad Lists
44.9.1 Clubs shall be permitted to name up to a maximum number of Players in their Squad List based on the following provisions:
(...) (b) in respect of League One and Two Clubs 22 Players of which a minimum of 8 must be a Home Grown Player.
9.2 The following Players do not need to be included in the Squad List to be eligible to play in League Matches:
(...) (b) in respect of League One Clubs and League Two Clubs: (i) any Under 21 Players; and (ii) goalkeepers.

FYI #1 - don't worry about "home-grown", it means UK rather than BWFC.
FYI #2 – U21 loan players don't count in League One – they do in the Championship, but those squads get 25 names.
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/ef ... 1-general/ says

‘Under 21 Player’ means a Player under the age of 21 as at the 1 January in the year in which the Season concerned commences (e.g. for Season 2022/23, born on or after 1 January 2001).

So to be underage for season 2023/24, a player would have to be born after 01/01/2002 (that alright, Worthy? ) so George Thomason will no longer be underage. (Neither, if he's retained, would Connor Stanley – that's the diminutive ex-Man U No.10, as opposed to bustling ex-Wolves striker Conor Carty - but the other B teamers would. Including bustling ex-Wolves striker Conor Carty.)

That means, by my reckoning, we will still have the following:

CONTRACT OFFERED, UNSIGNED, LENGTH UNKNOWN
1 Josh Sheehan (30/3/95)
2 Jon Dadi Bodvarsson (25/5/92)

CONTRACTED TO JUNE 2024
3 Gethin Jones (13/10/95)
4 George Johnston (1/9/98)
5 MJ Williams (6/11/95)
6 Declan John (30/6/95)
7 Kyle Dempsey (17/9/95)
8 Kieran Sadlier (14/9/94)
9 Cameron Jerome (14/8/86)

CONTRACTED TO JUNE 2025
10 Ricardo Santos (18/6/95)
11 Eoin Toal (15/2/99)
12 Jack Iredale (2/5/96)
13 Randell Williams (30/12/96)
14 George Thomason (12/1/01)
15 Aaron Morley (27/2/00)
16 Dion Charles (7/10/95)

CONTRACTED TO JUNE 2026
17 Victor Adeboyejo (12/1/98)

---------------------------------
B-team signings IF RETAINED:
Connor Stanley (30/12/01)
*Conor Carty (25/5/02)
*Mackenzie Chapman (13/9/02)
*Nelson Khumbeni (14/10/02)
*Gerald Sithole (28/12/02)
**Lynford Sackey (18/2/03)
**Matty Grivosti (14/3/03)
***Eric Yoro (19/2/04)

Young pros IF RETAINED:
*Adam Senior (20/1/02)
*Luke Hutchinson (1/9/02)
**Fin Lockett (20/4/03)
**Max Conway (5/9/03)
**Arran Pettifer (1/10/03)
**Lamine Toure (24/12/03)
***Matty Tweedley (16/4/04)
***Elis Litherland (5/5/04)

Former loanees' ages, for the record:
Dan Nlundulu (5/2/99)
*Owen Beck (9/8/02)
*James Trafford (10/10/02)
**Conor Bradley (9/7/03)
**Luke Mbete (18/9/03)
***Shola Shoretire (2/2/04)


*Stars indicate underage players; number of stars indicates number of seasons they will remain underage, assuming EFL age rules don't change. So Shola Shoretire has three more including the 2023/24 season.

[GhostoftheBok]

Thank you, DSB.

[Worthy4England]

Hmm, great work DSB. Of course 01/01/2002 could be a camouflaged wrong 'un, we wouldn't know until the 13th Jan though...

Connor Stanley would take up one of 22 possible grown up slots, if named in the squad or would take up one of 22 even if only used for B team, because he's on the books? Guess I'm trying to see if it's 5 slots with or without him?

[Prufrock]

You don't have to register people to have them on the books or play for the B. Just couldn't play for the seniors in an injury crisis.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Hmm, great work DSB. Of course 01/01/2002 could be a camouflaged wrong 'un, we wouldn't know until the 13th Jan though...

Ha, I did think that!!! rest of dates should be Worthy-pleasing though. I tells ya, I ain't no wrong'un.

Connor Stanley would take up one of 22 possible grown up slots, if named in the squad or would take up one of 22 even if only used for B team, because he's on the books? Guess I'm trying to see if it's 5 slots with or without him?

You don't have to register people to have them on the books or play for the B. Just couldn't play for the seniors in an injury crisis.

What Pru said. This 22-man squad is for the EFL. Connor Stanley (if we keep him) could play for the B team without being registered for the EFL. Same with Andy Tutte

[Worthy4England]

So if I'm reading it right, we've got 17 assuming Bod and Sheehan put pen to paper & Jerome is registered, but excluding Stanley. And N'lundulu would count as one of the 5 if he came back, so we'd be down to 4?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

So if I'm reading it right, we've got 17 assuming Bod and Sheehan put pen to paper & Jerome is registered, but excluding Stanley. And N'lundulu would count as one of the 5 if he came back, so we'd be down to 4?

Cock-on, cocker. The 4 would not include either goalkeeper, so the shopping list is longer than the empty-squad-slot list.