How much fitness do players lose in closed season?

[Worthy4England]

By way of a marginal distraction, I spotted an IE quote about today's pre-season friendly. Nothing majorly exceptional and rolled out by managers down the years, around "this is all about stepping up fitness"

It sort of got me wondering. I can see how this would apply to injury returnees and maybe signings who hadn't been playing regularly. But our last game was 19 May and we were back in training before June was out. How much fitness do you lose in 5/6 weeks, nowadays, if you've done the odd run in the intervening? I can understand "not competitive match sharp"

[Harry Genshaw]

Presumably it's just match fitness. I can't imagine these days that players walk off the pitch in May and get legless, sit around for weeks at a time like yesteryear. Watching the U21s at the moment and you think, how much rest do modern players get these days?

[Mar]

I don't think they would lose that much. Take Thomason for example, he looked to have spent the entire off season getting prepared and bulking up for the next season. In order to keep themselves in fighting contention for a spot they've got to keep a decent level of fitness in the off season. Sure it won't be as physical as regular season but you wouldn't suspect a drop off as considerable as it used to be. The standard seems higher.

[Worthy4England]

That's sort of where I was at, Harry. Feels like it should be "tuning" rather than fitness.

[Worthy4England]

I don't think they would lose that much. Take Thomason for example, he looked to have spent the entire off season getting prepared and bulking up for the next season. In order to keep themselves in fighting contention for a spot they've got to keep a decent level of fitness in the off season. Sure it won't be as physical as regular season but you wouldn't suspect a drop off as considerable as it used to be. The standard seems higher.

I can remember 40 years ago, one of the red tops posted a pic of someone in the off season, with some timber on them, but the "off season" was pretty much 4 months... End of April to starr of September....That I sort of understand, you could lose plenty.

[Mar]

I don't think they would lose that much. Take Thomason for example, he looked to have spent the entire off season getting prepared and bulking up for the next season. In order to keep themselves in fighting contention for a spot they've got to keep a decent level of fitness in the off season. Sure it won't be as physical as regular season but you wouldn't suspect a drop off as considerable as it used to be. The standard seems higher.

I can remember 40 years ago, one of the red tops posted a pic of someone in the off season, with some timber on them, but the "off season" was pretty much 4 months... End of April to starr of September....That I sort of understand, you could lose plenty.

Definitely. I suspect now the preseason should be focused on systems and processes as opposed to getting fitness levels up. Different story when out of contract at clubs however as you'd suspect training on your own is notably different than playing in a squad training.

[Worthy4England]

I don't think they would lose that much. Take Thomason for example, he looked to have spent the entire off season getting prepared and bulking up for the next season. In order to keep themselves in fighting contention for a spot they've got to keep a decent level of fitness in the off season. Sure it won't be as physical as regular season but you wouldn't suspect a drop off as considerable as it used to be. The standard seems higher.

I can remember 40 years ago, one of the red tops posted a pic of someone in the off season, with some timber on them, but the "off season" was pretty much 4 months... End of April to starr of September....That I sort of understand, you could lose plenty.

Definitely. I suspect now the preseason should be focused on systems and processes as opposed to getting fitness levels up. Different story when out of contract at clubs however as you'd suspect training on your own is notably different than playing in a squad training.

Aye, pretty much the way I was reading it. I think you maybe put a 5% dip on it, which should turn round fairly quick, rather than "let's strap a tractor tyre on, and get the fcuker up that Big hill" (been there!)

[GhostoftheBok]

Not as much as they used to, but still quite a bit.

Fitness isn't just stamina, it's also about strength in muscle groups that you wouldn't generally use much if you weren't a professional athlete. The conditioning of those muscles prevents injuries. You could take your average healthy, active person and they could run around for 90 minutes; but put them in match conditions and they'll be limping 10 minutes in.

Obviously the "match fitness" stamina side of things is vitally important, but a huge amount of preseason is developing injury-resistance.

[Worthy4England]

Not as much as they used to, but still quite a bit.

Fitness isn't just stamina, it's also about strength in muscle groups that you wouldn't generally use much if you weren't a professional athlete. The conditioning of those muscles prevents injuries. You could take your average healthy, active person and they could run around for 90 minutes; but put them in match conditions and they'll be limping 10 minutes in.

Obviously the "match fitness" stamina side of things is vitally important, but a huge amount of preseason is developing injury-resistance.

Thanks, Ghost. I was sorta thinking back, when maybe seasons were differently defined. As a bloke who played rugby/cricket (only minor level), we sorta knew that avoiding injury was pretty important. But Rugby finished April, cricket at the end of Sept, and you tended to play each to the end of their season. But around August you were stepping up a different type of intensity weights/reps/hits for when you switched. I am always a bit bemused when I hear the football narrative.

[Prufrock]

The absolute top level (which is what these lads are at) goes away pretty quickly. Much quicker than you'd think. They'd still win most park runs and be able to do more weights etc, but it's all relative to the other folk playing professional football.

I don't know if you've been up close with any active footballers, but the camera definitely removes about 5 stone. We play our home games at Watford's training ground. Before they got a Billy Big, I was queuing up behind Ben Watson and Ighalo. Watson always looked like a waif to me on telly, but he was absolutely jacked. And Ighalo, Jesus wept. His arms were bigger than my head.

They all have weight targets etc to hit when they get back in, and sure they go for a run/hit the gym, but the tuning to where they are in early August is big.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The absolute top level (which is what these lads are at) goes away pretty quickly. Much quicker than you'd think. They'd still win most park runs and be able to do more weights etc, but it's all relative to the other folk playing professional football.

I don't know if you've been up close with any active footballers, but the camera definitely removes about 5 stone. We play our home games at Watford's training ground. Before they got a Billy Big, I was queuing up behind Ben Watson and Ighalo. Watson always looked like a waif to me on telly, but he was absolutely jacked. And Ighalo, Jesus wept. His arms were bigger than my head.

They all have weight targets etc to hit when they get back in, and sure they go for a run/hit the gym, but the tuning to where they are in early August is big.

Aye. Funnily enough just on Friday I was talking to a mate who used to work for Blackpool’s media team - when Evatt was skipper and they were up the top end. He said, as you have, that players you assume are slight are actually the unite capable of tearing you apart like a bread roll.

We got into that by talking about Drogba. He saw Evatt two days after Blackpool played Chelsea and Evatt was walking like he’d broken several bones - so much so that my mate asked if he was injured. No, said Evatt, just recovering from being rag-dolled by “the strongest human I’ve ever met.” At the time Evatt was 15 stone of muscle and in top of his game.

So yeah, it’s easy to forget that football is a game played against others. See also “just put corners into place X”.

[KeyserSoze]

My dad said similar about Alan Thompson and Nicky Hunt (who should play up front, of course). Always had the latter down as a lad so tall and thin he would fall over in a strong wind. Not quite the case apparently.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah, Just after England won the RWC, they replaced some of the fellas who retired. Danny Grewcock, I had down as a "lanky streak" but reconsidered when stood next to him and finding 6'6" and 18St can make it look like a bit of an optical illusion on the telly.

[KeyserSoze]

Yeah, Just after England won the RWC, they replaced some of the fellas who retired. Danny Grewcock, I had down as a "lanky streak" but reconsidered when stood next to him and finding 6'6" and 18St can make it look like a bit of an optical illusion on the telly.

I went to uni in Bath and back in the day the England team would train at the University facilties during the six nations. Being on the cross-trainer in the gym and then turning to my left, craning my neck up and seeing Andy Farrell next to me was very much instilled in me the 'wow they are built different' mentality.

[boltonboris]

They do a lot more strength and conditioning in their own summer time breaks now. Weights, core etc that keeps the Body Fat % down and gets them the core strength and bulk they wouldn't be able to get when you play 55 games a season and your 'training' is mostly recovery and tactical

[BWFC_Insane]

They do a lot more strength and conditioning in their own summer time breaks now. Weights, core etc that keeps the Body Fat % down and gets them the core strength and bulk they wouldn't be able to get when you play 55 games a season and your 'training' is mostly recovery and tactical

I suspect that they all have plans for summer given to them and targets for when they return.

As has been said I think the difference in fitness will be small but in the context of competitive sport is probably quite large.

Mind its not that long ago Mark Davies was getting on the team coach with his McDonalds. I'd hope we've moved beyond that.

[TANGODANCER]

Is, "I haven"t the faintest idea" an answer to this?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Is, "I haven"t the faintest idea" an answer to this?

Under internet rules, you’re perfectly entitled to have no idea as long as you have a strident opinion anyway

[Worthy4England]

Is, "I haven"t the faintest idea" an answer to this?

Under internet rules, you’re perfectly entitled to have no idea as long as you have a strident opinion anyway

Yeah - it's a bit weak as it stands, TBF...