Wanderers v Cheltenham (A) 12 August - Are we up for the Gold Cup?

[Harry Genshaw]

People can’t get what hasn’t been shown before though.

It's been obvious since he arrived that he's a very good player.

I don't think it has. I know you've been championing him from the off and I've been willing him to do well but his performances so far, are way ahead of last seasons efforts. Long may it continue!

[BWFC_Insane]

People can’t get what hasn’t been shown before though.

It's been obvious since he arrived that he's a very good player.

No it hasn’t. And the player himself admits that. He’s on a mission this season to show his real self. He looks a real handful now. Long may this continue.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah, I'm in the "not what we've seen for us" club, too.

[GhostoftheBok]

I haven't said he's put in a load of brilliant displays, but the ability has been as clear as day.

You can see ability in a player even if they don't put everything together.

Vic has shown everything he showed today for us, just in bits and pieces. Yesterday he put it all together, which he inevitably would at some stage given how he was progressing. Now it's about consistency, which may take time - though I hope it has just clicked.

[Worthy4England]

I think young Sir said "it's been obvious since he arrived, that he's a very good player" and I reckon, to some, last season, that wasn't readily apparent...had you said it was obvious he had talent or ability I'd have probably agreed and that we just needed to get it working, which by accounts from yesterday, happily seems to be the case.

[BWFC_Insane]

Cheltenham weren’t very good. I don’t think we should forget that. However I have yesterday down as the sort of game we might have won last season but would have made hard work of it. Yesterday we barely needed to get out of 2nd gear and had the game done well before half time.

If we do that more often it would represent big progress. There are big challenges ahead and for me we still need something more at RWB. But the money from Thomason needs reinvesting into the side especially midfield. I still am not convinced Sheehan can be the only answer in there we need a different sort. And George offered that so will need replacing if he goes. Hopefully money will stretch to a replacement and a RWB.

[TANGODANCER]

Cheltenham weren’t very good. I don’t think we should forget that. However I have yesterday down as the sort of game we might have won last season but would have made hard work of it. Yesterday we barely needed to get out of 2nd gear and had the game done well before half time.

If we do that more often it would represent big progress. There are big challenges ahead and for me we still need something more at RWB. But the money from Thomason needs reinvesting into the side especially midfield. I still am not convinced Sheehan can be the only answer in there we need a different sort. And George offered that so will need replacing if he goes. Hopefully money will stretch to a replacement and a RWB.

3-0 at a canter. That not good enough?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Cheltenham weren’t very good. I don’t think we should forget that. However I have yesterday down as the sort of game we might have won last season but would have made hard work of it. Yesterday we barely needed to get out of 2nd gear and had the game done well before half time.

"Might" being tke key word. Our away results at the teams who finished bottom-10 were actually slightly worse last season (W4 D4 L2) than the year before (W6 D2 L2) – we lost at Cheltenham and FGR without scoring, drew 0-0 at Morecambe, Cambridge and Vale, were held 1-1 at Burton and conceded 2 at Accy and Bristol (though we scored 3 in both cases).

In case you're wondering, we *were* better away overall last season – 34pts was the division's 6th-best away haul, as opposed to 30pts/9th-best in the first L1 season – because we improved our competitiveness against the better teams. That first L1 season we got a miserable 4pts from a possible 27 at the other top-10 teams; last season that upticked to 11 out of 27 – better but still improvable. (Plymouth only got 9/27 from those top-10 trips, but a very impressive 27/27 from their top-10 home games. Ipswich got 15/27 away, 19/27 home. Wednesday got 14/27 away, 18/27 home.)

[BWFC_Insane]

Cheltenham weren’t very good. I don’t think we should forget that. However I have yesterday down as the sort of game we might have won last season but would have made hard work of it. Yesterday we barely needed to get out of 2nd gear and had the game done well before half time.

"Might" being tke key word. Our away results at the teams who finished bottom-10 were actually slightly worse last season (W4 D4 L2) than the year before (W6 D2 L2) – we lost at Cheltenham and FGR without scoring, drew 0-0 at Morecambe, Cambridge and Vale, were held 1-1 at Burton and conceded 2 at Accy and Bristol (though we scored 3 in both cases).

In case you're wondering, we *were* better away overall last season – 34pts was the division's 6th-best away haul, as opposed to 30pts/9th-best in the first L1 season – because we improved our competitiveness against the better teams. That first L1 season we got a miserable 4pts from a possible 27 at the other top-10 teams; last season that upticked to 11 out of 27 – better but still improvable. (Plymouth only got 9/27 from those top-10 trips, but a very impressive 27/27 from their top-10 home games. Ipswich got 15/27 away, 19/27 home. Wednesday got 14/27 away, 18/27 home.)

Yep indeed. I want to avoid being too giddy by suggesting that we've solved our issues because Cheltenham minus May certainly aren't the same beast and they've got a couple of injuries too.

Early doors its always hard to assess how much is you being better vs the opposition being worse. And I'd say the signs are it was a bit of both.

But I think our ability to win these games will be crucial and the signs from Saturday where a professional and no frills performance ended in a 2nd gear 3-0 are very good. Bigger tests to come not least the next few weeks (Burton I have no doubt will be better than Cheltenham coupled with Derby and Wigan and even Fleetwood) but I think it unlikely even the version of Cheltenham we faced on Saturday would have been brushed away so easily last season.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Early doors its always hard to assess how much is you being better vs the opposition being worse. And I'd say the signs are it was a bit of both.

Agreed. They're on the wane, we're on the wax. And of course no team exists in isolation. I haven't seen the game or even any highlights (I was on a Welsh hillside) bar Dion's goals, but it sounds like we have set the tempo and outworked them as well as outpassing. Only the very worst teams have no gameplan, but if we are up in the oppo's grills not letting them execute it, it allows us to play 'our' game.

As Pru noted, Lincoln – not highly regarded after last week's 3-0 – beat Wycombe 3-0 this weekend. Now, I think Wycombe will fade without Ainsworth but that's no bad result. It's early in the season to spot patterns - in Vale's 1-0 hiome win v Reading, keeper Connor Ripley, who had a debut horror show at Barnsley, saved a penalty (as he did more often than not last season). The more info we get the more we can predict, but three wins to nil is a nice to place to wonder from.

[BWFC_Insane]

Early doors its always hard to assess how much is you being better vs the opposition being worse. And I'd say the signs are it was a bit of both.

Agreed. They're on the wane, we're on the wax. And of course no team exists in isolation. I haven't seen the game or even any highlights (I was on a Welsh hillside) bar Dion's goals, but it sounds like we have set the tempo and outworked them as well as outpassing. Only the very worst teams have no gameplan, but if we are up in the oppo's grills not letting them execute it, it allows us to play 'our' game.

As Pru noted, Lincoln – not highly regarded after last week's 3-0 – beat Wycombe 3-0 this weekend. Now, I think Wycombe will fade without Ainsworth but that's no bad result. It's early in the season to spot patterns - in Vale's 1-0 hiome win v Reading, keeper Connor Ripley, who had a debut horror show at Barnsley, saved a penalty (as he did more often than not last season). The more info we get the more we can predict, but three wins to nil is a nice to place to wonder from.

Yeah there are noticeable things - we looked bigger than them. Fitter than them. Stronger than them. We had 70% plus possession but seemed much more comfortable going direct to Vic at times too - and putting the ball into the box. Plus taking shots. We scored after 15 minutes and it will be more of a test if a team gets closer to half time without conceding but still.

We didn't have to really break sweat or stretch the game either. Sure we're working very hard as all good teams do. But I feel like we're getting the balance right.

If our set piece quality continues then even teams who decide to camp their box against us at home hoping they can restrict us and frustrate us will have issues because if they have to defend a lot of corners and free kicks and we have threat from those - it changes the dynamic again.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yeah there are noticeable things - we looked bigger than them. Fitter than them. Stronger than them. We had 70% plus possession but seemed much more comfortable going direct to Vic at times too - and putting the ball into the box. Plus taking shots. We scored after 15 minutes and it will be more of a test if a team gets closer to half time without conceding but still.

I can't find it now but I'm sure I read some Evatt quotes about getting it forward quicker (which happened a lot more last season than the slightly ponderous/toothless one before).

He did say before the game “We just need to be better at what we do because the spaces are smaller. Tighter with passing, better with our decision-making, the detail of each pass has to be correct, we have to work at a higher tempo because you don’t have time on the ball. But those are things we have worked on the entirety of pre-season, so I don’t have any doubt the players will take it on.”

Iles approved:
"Room is at a premium at Cheltenham, so moving the ball at pace was vital, and fellow central midfielders Josh Sheehan and Aaron Morley also did their bit in keeping the tempo high. Charles opened the scoring 15 minutes in, finishing off a move which perfectly demonstrated this new pared-down and incisive approach. Sheehan picked the ball up on halfway and got his head up to see Adeboyejo’s run to the edge of the box, his pass to the right foot allowed the striker to turn the ball around the corner, where from eight yards there was no doubt about the outcome."

Evatt intimated in pre-season that he wanted to be more like Klopp's Liverpool – win the ball and pounce, not pontificate.

If our set piece quality continues then even teams who decide to camp their box against us at home hoping they can restrict us and frustrate us will have issues because if they have to defend a lot of corners and free kicks and we have threat from those - it changes the dynamic again.

Yes, it's much better than one-dimensionality.

[boltonboris]

People can’t get what hasn’t been shown before though.

It's been obvious since he arrived that he's a very good player.

No it hasn't

[boltonboris]

A very strong performance again. They couldn't get near us and most pleasing to see that we were physically superior. Aerially, in the tackle, the bounce of the ball etc

Everywhere on the pitch, in every aspect, we were dominant. Well done to everyone.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah there are noticeable things - we looked bigger than them. Fitter than them. Stronger than them. We had 70% plus possession but seemed much more comfortable going direct to Vic at times too - and putting the ball into the box. Plus taking shots. We scored after 15 minutes and it will be more of a test if a team gets closer to half time without conceding but still.

I can't find it now but I'm sure I read some Evatt quotes about getting it forward quicker (which happened a lot more last season than the slightly ponderous/toothless one before).

He did say before the game “We just need to be better at what we do because the spaces are smaller. Tighter with passing, better with our decision-making, the detail of each pass has to be correct, we have to work at a higher tempo because you don’t have time on the ball. But those are things we have worked on the entirety of pre-season, so I don’t have any doubt the players will take it on.”

Iles approved:
"Room is at a premium at Cheltenham, so moving the ball at pace was vital, and fellow central midfielders Josh Sheehan and Aaron Morley also did their bit in keeping the tempo high. Charles opened the scoring 15 minutes in, finishing off a move which perfectly demonstrated this new pared-down and incisive approach. Sheehan picked the ball up on halfway and got his head up to see Adeboyejo’s run to the edge of the box, his pass to the right foot allowed the striker to turn the ball around the corner, where from eight yards there was no doubt about the outcome."

Evatt intimated in pre-season that he wanted to be more like Klopp's Liverpool – win the ball and pounce, not pontificate.

If our set piece quality continues then even teams who decide to camp their box against us at home hoping they can restrict us and frustrate us will have issues because if they have to defend a lot of corners and free kicks and we have threat from those - it changes the dynamic again.

Yes, it's much better than one-dimensionality.

Yeah I've always believed in football that the less touches you take as a team the higher your chances are of scoring vs the same sort of pattern of play with more touches. So that doesn't mean just aimlessly lump the ball up. But the first goal was a ball direct to Ade who held off the defender a brilliant lay off and then goal. We could have passed it round before feeding Ade who would have had less space and their backline would have been able to drop off the block any lay off to Charles.

You have to make good decisions obviously. You can play the ball early and just surrender possession all the time. But I think we must take those risks more and win it back wherever we can should the worst happen.

[Worthy4England]

A very strong performance again. They couldn't get near us and most pleasing to see that we were physically superior. Aerially, in the tackle, the bounce of the ball etc

Everywhere on the pitch, in every aspect, we were dominant. Well done to everyone.

Yeah without reading anything into the respective strength of the opposition, you'll take 3-0 away, in pretty much any match.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I've always believed in football that the less touches you take as a team the higher your chances are of scoring vs the same sort of pattern of play with more touches. So that doesn't mean just aimlessly lump the ball up. But the first goal was a ball direct to Ade who held off the defender a brilliant lay off and then goal. We could have passed it round before feeding Ade who would have had less space and their backline would have been able to drop off the block any lay off to Charles.

You have to make good decisions obviously. You can play the ball early and just surrender possession all the time. But I think we must take those risks more and win it back wherever we can should the worst happen.

Yeah Evatt has been talking about getting his creators to take more risks. If we lose it, we win it back - preferably high - and go again from the turnover.

We're basically trying to outnumber them everywwhere by taking the calculated gamble of pushing the outside centre-backs on and leaving Rico alone to mind the shop. At some point teams will try things to counter this, but they will probably involve leaving more men forward, which feeds into our outnumbering.

No tactic works always and forever, else everyone would do it and results would only be defined by fiotness, touch and chance. But We certainly seem to have turned up the speed and workrate - the latter of which makes me think we're still going to add more players before the window closes.

[DJBlu]

Like what the players did after they scored the free kick, gestured to Evatt to pay up. Will be nice to know if he has offered to pay into a charity for every set piece we score.

Think I'll donate a fiver for every one we score this season.

Charity to be chosen by the-wanderer members.

£15 at the minute.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Like what the players did after they scored the free kick, gestured to Evatt to pay up. Will be nice to know if he has offered to pay into a charity for every set piece we score.

He pays into the players' kitty when they score from set pieces – and subtracts when they concede from them.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... otivation/

It has already cost me a few bob. It was something we came up with in the summer. The counter-act is that every time we concede from a set play, then I financially benefit, it is a mutual thing.

But it’s just a bit of fun – it doesn’t come out of our pockets directly, more from fine kitties. I get money when people are late that we will use for days out with the players and staff, team bonding exercises, and the players have their own one for silly stuff like not wearing flip-flops in the shower, that type of thing, and that’s where it comes from. They will be punished if they concede, rewarded if they score, and thanks to [the opening game] they are already 2-0 up, so it is a double-edged sword for me.

.

Think I'll donate a fiver for every one we score this season.

Charity to be chosen by the-wanderer members.

£15 at the minute.

Very kind and perhaps expensive!!

[boltonboris]

Like what the players did after they scored the free kick, gestured to Evatt to pay up. Will be nice to know if he has offered to pay into a charity for every set piece we score.

Think I'll donate a fiver for every one we score this season.

Charity to be chosen by the-wanderer members.

£15 at the minute.

That's very good of you DJB!!