Match Thread: Pasties and Pies - A Tasty affair! Bolton v Wigan (H) - Saturday 19th Aug / 12.30

[Harry Genshaw]

If you can write today off as just 'one of those days' then fair enough and good luck to you. Personally, today I can't. Performances, individually and collectively were way off where they should have been, 4 years into the managers time here. The worry, and imo it's a reasonable one, is we've learnt nothing (or not enough) from the last couple of seasons.

[BWFC_Insane]

If you can write today off as just 'one of those days' then fair enough and good luck to you. Personally, today I can't. Performances, individually and collectively were way off where they should have been, 4 years into the managers time here. The worry, and imo it's a reasonable one, is we've learnt nothing (or not enough) from the last couple of seasons.

This. It happens too often. I don’t care that we were playing Wigan today or anyone else. The performance is the issue. We shrank. And it happens with this group of players. And we all know we need a specimen in midfield and more resilience generally.

It needs fixing and to do that needs an introduction of leaders into the squad and some more physicality. You can’t fix it with players who keep slipping into these performances.

[dave the minion]

See, I do honestly get all that.

Todays performance stank. There's no denying it - and trust me, I'm not denying it. My issue is
, 1 bad performance seems to completely and irrationally undo all of the previous really good ones in some people's minds.

People talk of the same issues being around for a few years. Maybe. But that conveniently forgets the fact that we had a cracking season last season and are continually showing progression under evatt.

Maybe the solution is another striker, a combative midfielder or a better wing back. I don't know,but just perhaps that player isn't available to us on our budget, and we"re actually doing quite well on our limited budget?

If it's not obvious from my posts, I can't abide negativity. - there's too much of it all over the world, but given our recent history, I genuinely don't think our club in it's current state is an appropriate place for it....

And with that, I will go and get another cocktail.from the hotel bar and bid you all goodnight

[nicholaldo]

See, I do honestly get all that.

Todays performance stank. There's no denying it - and trust me, I'm not denying it. My issue is
, 1 bad performance seems to completely and irrationally undo all of the previous really good ones in some people's minds.

People talk of the same issues being around for a few years. Maybe. But that conveniently forgets the fact that we had a cracking season last season and are continually showing progression under evatt.

Maybe the solution is another striker, a combative midfielder or a better wing back. I don't know,but just perhaps that player isn't available to us on our budget, and we"re actually doing quite well on our limited budget?

If it's not obvious from my posts, I can't abide negativity. - there's too much of it all over the world, but given our recent history, I genuinely don't think our club in it's current state is an appropriate place for it....

And with that, I will go and get another cocktail.from the hotel bar and bid you all goodnight

I think you have to bear in mind we already know we can beat the also rans - what's held us back is our inability to properly compete against the best teams in the league. One of the main reasons there's so much frustration is because today's result would seem pretty clearly to indicate it's a problem we've yet to overcome, despite us being another couple of trasnfer windows futher down the line.

A big occasion, strong opposition, up against a good, high press, and we've been found wanting again.

[BWFC_Insane]

We were playing a team cobbled together after a chaotic summer of embargoes and sanctions.

Our aim as repeatedly is to win automatic promotion. It’s entirely fair to discuss our issues in that light.

You can’t watch that game and how spineless we were and be relentlessly positive.

The issues need sorting and have done for a while.

[GhostoftheBok]

A big occasion, strong opposition, up against a good, high press, and we've been found wanting again.

...but why would we not?

What has changed with the 11 we put out?

We have improved out attacking patterns, hence creating loads of chances in every game. However, there's no fundamental change in midfield and at the back to deal with our weaknesses against these sides.

We have added players to do that, but we are bedding them in and the manager chose not to start them.

With the 11 we put out why would we expect to be dramatically different?

What we have done is started putting the lesser sides to the sword earlier and looking vastly more comfortable. That's genuine progress.

All in all it's not time to take the toaster for a nice hot bath. Not yet, anyway.

[dave the minion]

Ok. I know our aim is promotion, but it's also not a god given right either. There's half a dozen teams in our league who also have the aim of promotion, and we can't all get it, so some will fall short. If we're one of them, so be it.

It's not that long ago we were facing having no club. For me, if we keep showing progression - which we are - then I'm ok with that. I'll get frustrated at times along the way on days like today, but I will also see the bigger picture and not implode either...

And now I really am going to bed....

[BWFC_Insane]

Ok. I know our aim is promotion, but it's also not a god given right either. There's half a dozen teams in our league who also have the aim of promotion, and we can't all get it, so some will fall short. If we're one of them, so be it.

It's not that long ago we were facing having no club. For me, if we keep showing progression - which we are - then I'm ok with that. I'll get frustrated at times along the way on days like today, but I will also see the bigger picture and not implode either...

And now I really am going to bed....

It’s not a god given right you have to fight every game. Turn up every game.

The point is not that we’ve fallen short in a tight game to a good side. It’s that we’ve been completely outfought. That simply cannot happen. Ever. It’s unacceptable.

It’s happened and we move on but it simply should not happen and it’s not ‘a bad day at the office’ when your team don’t compete. It’s a problem. Now if they use that to say they will never ever ever be outfought or out run or out competed again then fine. But it’s not the first time it’s happened with these players - that’s the issue. It’s happened too many times.

Professionals at the level these are should be thoroughly disgusted with themselves. It’s a basic. I can take a bad day or just not being able to play. But there are basics of competing that if you want to go up are a bare minimum to see each week. Sure you won’t win every game.

But I genuinely see very few teams destined for promotion put such a limp and weak performance in off the back of three wins.

I think it’s at a point it needs addressing for me. And I suspect based on his comments for Evatt too.

[officer_dibble]

It’s fecking ace game next at Burton. Genuinely pleased it’s that one - sort the men out from the boys and all that. Cos if you’re not up for it there and we get found wanting again I’d be making some serious decisions if I were Ian Evatt. And still in August so he can.

[Mar]

A big occasion, strong opposition, up against a good, high press, and we've been found wanting again.

...but why would we not?

What has changed with the 11 we put out?

We have improved out attacking patterns, hence creating loads of chances in every game. However, there's no fundamental change in midfield and at the back to deal with our weaknesses against these sides.

We have added players to do that, but we are bedding them in and the manager chose not to start them.

With the 11 we put out why would we expect to be dramatically different?

What we have done is started putting the lesser sides to the sword earlier and looking vastly more comfortable. That's genuine progress.

I think you've summed it up quite nicely here. We've been found wanting yet again by a Wigan side who we should be faring better against. We've come up against the top teams in the league several times and struggled and yet other times we've had a good go of it (Plymouth in the final for example).


If we're looking at problems that Evatt needed to solve at the start of the season, they would be not threatening from set pieces and not creating enough chances. Defending wasn't the problem, so to come away with a game like today where we have shipped four goals from five shots on target then I'd say we can count ourselves a little hard done by.

We've had 24 shots (4 on target) and conceded 18 fouls. We never really got any momentum into our attack, and what we did get going was pedestrian and easy for Wigan to get settled. Complete opposite for Wigan who carved us open with some slick passing moves.

JDC missing from close range probably summed it up. We didnt do the basics well. Chances like that should be hitting the target, crosses from Williams and JDC should be finding a man. Passing from the back should be finding a man in midfield. The midfield should be picking up their runners. We were woeful, but despite being woeful at times, we created chances and should've done better with them.

Our team hasn't become terrible overnight. We've had improvements over the last few games. Today that wasn't visible, but that doesn't mean they're there.

It's frustrating to see us reverting to type, but we've made progress. Most seasons we've started slow under Evatt, this season we've started well. Hopefully thats a sign of something better to come. The Wigan defeat being a wake up call of sorts.

[TANGODANCER]

Please sir, is it okay to be thoroughly fed up because your team have just got bullied and thrashed four -nil by Wigan? Is that okay sir, because I find it to be my feelings right now. It will pass, no doubt, but right now......

[nicholaldo]

A big occasion, strong opposition, up against a good, high press, and we've been found wanting again.

...but why would we not?

What has changed with the 11 we put out?

We have improved out attacking patterns, hence creating loads of chances in every game. However, there's no fundamental change in midfield and at the back to deal with our weaknesses against these sides.

We have added players to do that, but we are bedding them in and the manager chose not to start them.

With the 11 we put out why would we expect to be dramatically different?

What we have done is started putting the lesser sides to the sword earlier and looking vastly more comfortable. That's genuine progress.

All in all it's not time to take the toaster for a nice hot bath. Not yet, anyway.

Well, that's partly where the frustration lies. It was painfully obvious what we were lacking during the same fixture previously and yet here we are two years on still bedding in the players capable of dealing with that threat.

And anyway, I'm unconvinced the problem isn't primarily pshychological rather than technical.

[Worthy4England]

Psychological? my arse. Too fcking soft when up against it.

[DJBlu]

Nope I wasn't there. I"m a season ticket holder who happens to be on hols, otherwise I would have been there.
Sorry if that means my opinion doesnt count this week.....

Anywhere nice Dave?

[BWFC_Insane]

Psychological? my arse. Too fcking soft when up against it.

Well yes. Though some of it is mentality. Santos yesterday instead of rising to the fight of Wyke waved his arms round and basically gave up. Not just the example but he never got into the team to rally them as I’d hope a captain would. Sheehan hid. Morley hid. All three plus Williams and Iredale ducked out of challenges.

That’s physically soft but I’d also say mentally weak.

We don’t have the excuse of not having a good enough team anymore. Evatt has built the squad he wants. But it’s short of leaders. Of mentally and physically tough folks. We need to address that. I’d be prepared to sell some to buy. I found the comments from Fred Eyre about our midfield particularly illuminating.

We need a big horrible type in midfield. Unless we have one we will fail to win the battles against these teams and then it won’t matter how well we flat track bully those who can’t fight back.

[officer_dibble]

Port Vale lost 7-0 first game of the season and haven’t lost since. This needs to be the kick up the arse Colon Todds lot got against Southend in 96. Only a win next week at Burton will do - get Thomason and Maghoma in the side and prepare properly. Agreed on comments re Evatt getting the team wrong yesterday - totally outdone tactically needs a good look at himself. And if the players prove again they aren’t up for a battle get dealing before the window closes.

[dave the minion]

Psychological? my arse. Too fcking soft when up against it.

Well yes. Though some of it is mentality. Santos yesterday instead of rising to the fight of Wyke waved his arms round and basically gave up. Not just the example but he never got into the team to rally them as I’d hope a captain would. Sheehan hid. Morley hid. All three plus Williams and Iredale ducked out of challenges.

That’s physically soft but I’d also say mentally weak.

We don’t have the excuse of not having a good enough team anymore. Evatt has built the squad he wants. But it’s short of leaders. Of mentally and physically tough folks. We need to address that. I’d be prepared to sell some to buy. I found the comments from Fred Eyre about our midfield particularly illuminating.

We need a big horrible type in midfield. Unless we have one we will fail to win the battles against these teams and then it won’t matter how well we flat track bully those who can’t fight back.

Who are you proposing to sell then?

And - more importantly - who are you buying (that's available and affordable)?

(Don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment by the way, just curious)

[dave the minion]

Nope I wasn't there. I"m a season ticket holder who happens to be on hols, otherwise I would have been there.
Sorry if that means my opinion doesnt count this week.....

Anywhere nice Dave?

Turkey. 'tis lovely....

[officer_dibble]

Psychological? my arse. Too fcking soft when up against it.

Well yes. Though some of it is mentality. Santos yesterday instead of rising to the fight of Wyke waved his arms round and basically gave up. Not just the example but he never got into the team to rally them as I’d hope a captain would. Sheehan hid. Morley hid. All three plus Williams and Iredale ducked out of challenges.

That’s physically soft but I’d also say mentally weak.

We don’t have the excuse of not having a good enough team anymore. Evatt has built the squad he wants. But it’s short of leaders. Of mentally and physically tough folks. We need to address that. I’d be prepared to sell some to buy. I found the comments from Fred Eyre about our midfield particularly illuminating.

We need a big horrible type in midfield. Unless we have one we will fail to win the battles against these teams and then it won’t matter how well we flat track bully those who can’t fight back.

Who are you proposing to sell then?

And - more importantly - who are you buying (that's available and affordable)?

(Don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment by the way, just curious)

Morley is the player whose place is most at threat. Closely followed by Sheehan but he got the new contract this summer.

[BWFC_Insane]

Psychological? my arse. Too fcking soft when up against it.

Well yes. Though some of it is mentality. Santos yesterday instead of rising to the fight of Wyke waved his arms round and basically gave up. Not just the example but he never got into the team to rally them as I’d hope a captain would. Sheehan hid. Morley hid. All three plus Williams and Iredale ducked out of challenges.

That’s physically soft but I’d also say mentally weak.

We don’t have the excuse of not having a good enough team anymore. Evatt has built the squad he wants. But it’s short of leaders. Of mentally and physically tough folks. We need to address that. I’d be prepared to sell some to buy. I found the comments from Fred Eyre about our midfield particularly illuminating.

We need a big horrible type in midfield. Unless we have one we will fail to win the battles against these teams and then it won’t matter how well we flat track bully those who can’t fight back.

Who are you proposing to sell then?

And - more importantly - who are you buying (that's available and affordable)?

(Don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment by the way, just curious)

Morley is the player whose place is most at threat. Closely followed by Sheehan but he got the new contract this summer.

Yeah Morley for me or Sheehan or both.