Match Thread: Pasties and Pies - A Tasty affair! Bolton v Wigan (H) - Saturday 19th Aug / 12.30

[Harry Genshaw]

Narr it’s not getting any better, two consecutive 0-4 drubbings at home in derby matches. Anyone involved in both wants a literal kick in the bollocks. Those just here from Saturday get the away game for redemption. Set of cnuts.

One of the saddest things about it all for me, is that before Saturday I had complete trust and faith in the manager and this group of players. This has sorely tested it.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Narr it’s not getting any better, two consecutive 0-4 drubbings at home in derby matches. Anyone involved in both wants a literal kick in the bollocks. Those just here from Saturday get the away game for redemption. Set of cnuts.

One of the saddest things about it all for me, is that before Saturday I had complete trust and faith in the manager and this group of players. This has sorely tested it.

Reasonable. Trust is hard to win and easy to lose.

[BWFC_Insane]

I trust Evatt but he needs to lose the naivety. Football is a hard game and we need some stronger characters mentally and physically in that team.

Allardyce wouldn’t have let Morley get near his team with that attitude and we need a bit more of that. The manager and captain should be in their faces. It’s fine saying modern players can’t take it but if they can’t they need shipping out. If midfielders can’t physically dominate then they probably shouldn’t be here either. We need to be realistic and less naive.

[Mar]

Allardyce wouldn’t have let Morley get near his team with that attitude and we need a bit more of that.

It's all fine waxing lyrical about the past, but you might want to take the rose tinted glasses off. I clearly remember games where the likes of Gareth Farrelly, Djibril Diawara and Nicky Southall were getting bullied around the park, not picking up their runners and generally doing all those things that you're ever so critical of our current team.

It wasn't just one season either. Javi Moreno, Emerson Thome, Fabrice Fernandes, Jon Otsemobor. Even our beloved Ivan Campo had shocking moments defensively before the likes of Laville shifted him to CM.

The big difference between Evatt and Allardyce as far as I can see, is that Allardyce setup to beat the opposition by any means necessary. Evatt sets us up to play the best football to win a game of football, which I don't suspect is always possible when we're getting kicked about the park physically.

Allardyce signed players and had a team that gave off an impression that we'd be difficult for the likes of Arsenal to beat. No impression of a weak underbelly. Evatt's sides haven't given off that impression, not yet at least.

[BWFC_Insane]

Allardyce wouldn’t have let Morley get near his team with that attitude and we need a bit more of that.

It's all fine waxing lyrical about the past, but you might want to take the rose tinted glasses off. I clearly remember games where the likes of Gareth Farrelly, Djibril Diawara and Nicky Southall were getting bullied around the park, not picking up their runners and generally doing all those things that you're ever so critical of our current team.

It wasn't just one season either. Javi Moreno, Emerson Thome, Fabrice Fernandes, Jon Otsemobor. Even our beloved Ivan Campo had shocking moments defensively before the likes of Laville shifted him to CM.

The big difference between Evatt and Allardyce as far as I can see, is that Allardyce setup to beat the opposition by any means necessary. Evatt sets us up to play the best football to win a game of football, which I don't suspect is always possible when we're getting kicked about the park physically.

Allardyce signed players and had a team that gave off an impression that we'd be difficult for the likes of Arsenal to beat. No impression of a weak underbelly. Evatt's sides haven't given off that impression, not yet at least.

I mean we can all invent things but I’m talking about the environment. Allardyce built an environment where he and senior players simply wouldn’t allow people ducking out of challenges, hiding or failing to do the basics on the field without those people being called out.

It’s just about having a bit more physicality and a stronger mentality within the group. Allardyce wouldn’t tolerate the display on Saturday and Evatt should clearly and publically state he won’t tolerate something like that ever happening again.

We aren’t talking about being one of the weaker sides in a division here or losing games. It just can’t ever be acceptable to fail to physically compete again and that has to be an absolute red line from now on. It definitely will be.

[BWFC_Insane]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ian-evatt/

Exactly!

[Worthy4England]

Of course we can all invent things. Like how we perceive the current dressing room to be reacting to the weekend's defeat as a straw man and the notion that no one is having things suggested to them like "I think you could've done better with that." I doubt some of our players are suddenly going to sprout "physicality" - I mean there's 10 pages devoted to telling us we need to buy some of it, because the incumbents don't have it. If only sides realised all it took wasn't that new tank in the midfield, you just have to shout at what's there in front of you, they could save a lot of money.

I genuinely don't care whether Evatt states anything "publically" to put people on some sort of "notice" for the benefit of the fans, but equally I doubt he's sat at training camp telling everyone they were very good.

Are you actually expecting Evatt to come out with the sort of statement, you're looking for? What do you really think he's going to say? "I've looked back at Saturday's replay and I've put 9 first teamers on the transfer list, so anyone coming into the club to replace them know this is our red line, and we'll do the same with them, should they be found wanting in the mentality or physicality departments"

[Worthy4England]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ian-evatt/

Exactly!

That reads a bit more tempered and nuanced than the requested public executions...

[BWFC_Insane]

Of course we can all invent things. Like how we perceive the current dressing room to be reacting to the weekend's defeat as a straw man and the notion that no one is having things suggested to them like "I think you could've done better with that." I doubt some of our players are suddenly going to sprout "physicality" - I mean there's 10 pages devoted to telling us we need to buy some of it, because the incumbents don't have it. If only sides realised all it took wasn't that new tank in the midfield, you just have to shout at what's there in front of you, they could save a lot of money.

I genuinely don't care whether Evatt states anything "publically" to put people on some sort of "notice" for the benefit of the fans, but equally I doubt he's sat at training camp telling everyone they were very good.

Are you actually expecting Evatt to come out with the sort of statement, you're looking for? What do you really think he's going to say? "I've looked back at Saturday's replay and I've put 9 first teamers on the transfer list, so anyone coming into the club to replace them know this is our red line, and we'll do the same with them, should they be found wanting in the mentality or physicality departments"

I’m not looking for him to publically list players or put people on the transfer list but to come out and acknowledge the failures. He’s done that and talked about a weak mentality in the group. Which I think is good. He may think that it doesn’t need an injection of new players or leaders but I do.

But for me the main thing is a public acknowledgement of the problem we can all see and he’s done that. Now it’s about how to fix it. But at least we aren’t brushing it under the carpet.

Evatt I suspect gets it - it’s now finding a solution. I honestly think a Karl Henry type who is a bit tougher physically but also will drive standards would work wonders with this group.

[Bertie Wooster]

“They are quite a relaxed and confident group and sometimes getting that emotion and passion out of them is quite a difficult thing to do. They are really nice lads, an honest bunch of players, but they struggle to drive standards and find that horrible, nasty edge".

Evatt signed these players, he knew what he was getting personality wise - if he wants players with an edge and more passion they why hasn't he signed some ?, most fans have been saying that we need more steel in the team for the past 2-3 years yet Evatt has continued to sign 'nice lads'.

[BWFC_Insane]

“They are quite a relaxed and confident group and sometimes getting that emotion and passion out of them is quite a difficult thing to do. They are really nice lads, an honest bunch of players, but they struggle to drive standards and find that horrible, nasty edge".

Evatt signed these players, he knew what he was getting personality wise - if he wants players with an edge and more passion they why hasn't he signed some ?, most fans have been saying that we need more steel in the team for the past 2-3 years yet Evatt has continued to sign 'nice lads'.

I mean it’s a balance and I sympathise with Evatt. He can’t have everything he wants in a player and sometimes you end up with a certain mental makeup through a bit of chance. He might try and add one - I would if I was him, I guess one of the issues is we aren’t taking older players on so much and they would tend to be the ones who could come in and drive those standards.

[Worthy4England]

Of course without the statement to the press, we could have concluded he'd have quietly lifted a corner of the rug and tucked a 4-0 dust pile under it.

Now he's probably muttering "and I would've got away with it, if it wasn't for you meddling kids"

I was a bit surprised, that given both Maghoma and Thommo are probably more likely than Sheehan and Morely to put a tackle in, rather than just try to nick it off someone's boot laces, that neither started. Like quite a few, I'd still like someone who can exert a bit of control before the window slams shut.

[Bertie Wooster]

“They are quite a relaxed and confident group and sometimes getting that emotion and passion out of them is quite a difficult thing to do. They are really nice lads, an honest bunch of players, but they struggle to drive standards and find that horrible, nasty edge".

Evatt signed these players, he knew what he was getting personality wise - if he wants players with an edge and more passion they why hasn't he signed some ?, most fans have been saying that we need more steel in the team for the past 2-3 years yet Evatt has continued to sign 'nice lads'.

I mean it’s a balance and I sympathise with Evatt. He can’t have everything he wants in a player and sometimes you end up with a certain mental makeup through a bit of chance. He might try and add one - I would if I was him, I guess one of the issues is we aren’t taking older players on so much and they would tend to be the ones who could come in and drive those standards.

Which is Evatt's decision and therefore down to him, he's the manager - he can't have it both ways. You don't need everyone in the team to be more physical & nastier just 2 or 3 IMO and he's chosen over several transfer windows not to bring them in

[Worthy4England]

“They are quite a relaxed and confident group and sometimes getting that emotion and passion out of them is quite a difficult thing to do. They are really nice lads, an honest bunch of players, but they struggle to drive standards and find that horrible, nasty edge".

Evatt signed these players, he knew what he was getting personality wise - if he wants players with an edge and more passion they why hasn't he signed some ?, most fans have been saying that we need more steel in the team for the past 2-3 years yet Evatt has continued to sign 'nice lads'.

I mean it’s a balance and I sympathise with Evatt. He can’t have everything he wants in a player and sometimes you end up with a certain mental makeup through a bit of chance. He might try and add one - I would if I was him, I guess one of the issues is we aren’t taking older players on so much and they would tend to be the ones who could come in and drive those standards.

Which is Evatt's decision and therefore down to him, he's the manager - he can't have it both ways. You don't need everyone in the team to be more physical & nastier just 2 or 3 IMO and he's chosen over several transfer windows not to bring them in

Yeah, I think there's some of this for sure Bertie. He says the team just thought they could turn up and impose our style, but it can't really be a surprise, with the XI selected. I don't really expect that MF 3 to dominate a good press and when the defence don't do simple things right, either, there was only one likely outcome...

[BWFC_Insane]

“They are quite a relaxed and confident group and sometimes getting that emotion and passion out of them is quite a difficult thing to do. They are really nice lads, an honest bunch of players, but they struggle to drive standards and find that horrible, nasty edge".

Evatt signed these players, he knew what he was getting personality wise - if he wants players with an edge and more passion they why hasn't he signed some ?, most fans have been saying that we need more steel in the team for the past 2-3 years yet Evatt has continued to sign 'nice lads'.

I mean it’s a balance and I sympathise with Evatt. He can’t have everything he wants in a player and sometimes you end up with a certain mental makeup through a bit of chance. He might try and add one - I would if I was him, I guess one of the issues is we aren’t taking older players on so much and they would tend to be the ones who could come in and drive those standards.

Which is Evatt's decision and therefore down to him, he's the manager - he can't have it both ways. You don't need everyone in the team to be more physical & nastier just 2 or 3 IMO and he's chosen over several transfer windows not to bring them in

I mean it depends. He’s trying to execute FVs business model too. I can see why we’ve ended up here but Evatt acknowledging it gives me much more hope than past seasons where he’s more or less aggressively tried to brush these games off as ‘one of those things’.

[Prufrock]

I was away thank feck, and no way I'm putting myself through that.

Sounds dreadful. But we're two points up on last season, which is 0.5 PPG, which is an extra 23 points over a season, which is 104 points and Champions. Hoorah!

[irie Cee Bee]

I was away thank feck, and no way I'm putting myself through that.

Sounds dreadful. But we're two points up on last season, which is 0.5 PPG, which is an extra 23 points over a season, which is 104 points and Champions. Hoorah!

Nice Stats. But we lost the first big test. Lets factor that in against the top 6 teams in the league and see where it takes us. We at least need an enforcer in midfield who can play who absolutely refuses to lose, and a good RWB back up to take us through to January.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I was away thank feck, and no way I'm putting myself through that.

Sounds dreadful. But we're two points up on last season, which is 0.5 PPG, which is an extra 23 points over a season, which is 104 points and Champions. Hoorah!

Nice Stats. But we lost the first big test. Lets factor that in against the top 6 teams in the league and see where it takes us.

An interesting idea. We've won 3 out of 4, but only played one 'rival'. If we lose every game against the top 6, but win every game against the other 17, we'll have 102 points and we should be alreet

(well, until the next season.... )

[irie Cee Bee]

I was away thank feck, and no way I'm putting myself through that.

Sounds dreadful. But we're two points up on last season, which is 0.5 PPG, which is an extra 23 points over a season, which is 104 points and Champions. Hoorah!

Nice Stats. But we lost the first big test. Lets factor that in against the top 6 teams in the league and see where it takes us.

An interesting idea. We've won 3 out of 4, but only played one 'rival'. If we lose every game against the top 6, but win every game against the other 17, we'll have 102 points and we should be alreet

(well, until the next season.... )

So what crisis then. Beat Burton on Saturday and we stay on track for Automatics. Thanks Pru and DSB... no worries.

[GhostoftheBok]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ian-evatt/

Exactly!

That reads a bit more tempered and nuanced than the requested public executions...

It's also Evatt ducking.

There's plenty of blame to be carried by the players, but he also got it wrong - which was why you could see it coming a mile off, especially after Fleetwood.

Evatt started off after the game saying he didn't see it coming, but that sounded bad and got remarked upon across social media. So in that article he's saying he did, in fact, see it coming; but in a way that removes any blame from himself.

I don't like it. It's exculpatory bullshit. That doesn't mean there's no truth in it, but it's also obvious reputation-management of the kind he always indulges in.

It's all very well saying "If only the players will let me make them better we'll win everything, but maybe they'll limit my brilliance with their lack of belief or weak minds"...so long as he doesn't actually believe that. Sometimes I worry he drinks his own kool-aid.

If you chuck someone off a cliff you can't then blame them for lacking the faith to fly or willingness to battle the rocks.