Jon Dadi….

[BWFC_Insane]

I wanted a thread to ask what is going on with Bodvarsson? Coming on after Jerome. Looking pretty fed up, not hanging round at the end and straight back down the tunnel.

I don’t get it. Whatever anyone says about Jon (I like him) he’s streets, miles, leagues ahead of Jerome and Nlundulu who are both utterly abysmal. Why is he not getting picked? He can actually play football when he gets the ball rather than it bouncing off him at all angles. He can win headers rather than losing every single physical battle.

I don’t get why he’s not getting game time. And again people decry Phil Brown but he’s also asked the same. He’s clearly on paper our third arguably second best striker yet is getting least amount of time.

Jerome can’t run. Nlundulu doesn’t run. So don’t give me any nonsense about pressing. It’s absolute hogswash and nonsense.

[The_Gun]

I have no insight into what's going on behind the scenes, but as a fan watching from the outside the most obvious reason for JDB's lack of minutes is lack of fitness.

I think Evatt trusts him as a player (again without any knowledge of internal relationships), so my expectation is he will start to see more game time as the season wears on. My guess is that he'll see more minutes on Saturday, and maybe Evatt is even planning on starting him, and thus restricted his time last night.

[boltonboris]

I have no insight into what's going on behind the scenes, but as a fan watching from the outside the most obvious reason for JDB's lack of minutes is lack of fitness.

I think Evatt trusts him as a player (again without any knowledge of internal relationships), so my expectation is he will start to see more game time as the season wears on. My guess is that he'll see more minutes on Saturday, and maybe Evatt is even planning on starting him, and thus restricted his time last night.

JDB would have known that in advance if it was the case. I didn't see anything at the end, though so don't know how his body language looked.

He's done well off the bench the last 2 games but he must be looking at Jerome and Nlundulu ahead of him and thinking "WTF"!

I hope he starts, but I'm thinking the bio-mechanics and stat guys are pointing at sprints / physical output etc and look like the others are putting a little more in. F-knows

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing him with Charles again on Saturday. Nlundulu MUSTN'T start again at the weekend, surely

[boltonboris]

And BWFCI is right. Balls to presses etc. He can win second balls, he can pass and he can keep the ball. For me, if he's fit, he plays

[BWFC_Insane]

Thing is that he won’t build his fitness and sharpness without minutes and I can take him not playing if we had a young enterprising striker who could run all day and unsettle teams. I could see that. But we don’t. I just can’t imagine one reason why he wouldn’t be ahead of Nlundulu and Jerome unless there is some sort of falling out.

Port Vale he was straight down the tunnel which is unlike him.

I mean yesterday we bring Jerome on and his first two involvements are to give away a free kick around our penalty area then to give away a penalty….had we not won the game imagine the reaction to that with Bod twiddling his thumbs on the bench.

[jmjhb]

Either way we'll be needing 2-3 forwards in January/summer.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I could sorta see why Jerome came on last night but it didn't work - again. The way he gave away that penalty - had it been Dan there'd have been a firing squad.

But then Dan was also, again, deeplky disappointing last night.

I would like to see Bod start on Saturday, if Vic isn't fit. I do wonder if fitness is a problem. We have five strikers but two of them frankly don't look up to it, so it's hardly like he's being crowded. There must be more to it.

[Prufrock]

Dan was much better on sat so I can see the logic of him keeping his place, albeit he was hopeless again.

Jerome before Bod made no sense at all to me.

Assuming Vic still out he has to start on Saturday.

[BWFC_Insane]

I could sorta see why Jerome came on last night but it didn't work - again. The way he gave away that penalty - had it been Dan there'd have been a firing squad.

But then Dan was also, again, deeplky disappointing last night.

I would like to see Bod start on Saturday, if Vic isn't fit. I do wonder if fitness is a problem. We have five strikers but two of them frankly don't look up to it, so it's hardly like he's being crowded. There must be more to it.

Can you explain what theory would justify Jerome coming on first? Even if the idea was to just effectively use him as a ‘head the ball away from corners’ type, why can’t Bod also do that?

I don’t really get Jerome at all. What does he want to offer here? He doesn’t hold the ball. Doesn’t seem to be willing to even just run a channel and hold it in corners or just help get us up the pitch. I expected him to be that wily old awkward target man for these scenarios but he’s the opposite. He drops into midfield and barely registers leaving us completely without any possibility of getting out from defensive areas.

To me he looks like a player who had pace, but that has gone and he has no idea what to do now. I expected a bit of a Kevin Davies type yet it’s more like watching Mario Jardel with two left feet!

[Worthy4England]

Last season, even when he was fit, he was only used for 759 minutes across 21 league games...about 30 minutes a match. So I don't think it's something that's just happened this season. Don't think Evatt sees him as a starter (that might be "fitness related")...Since 2018, his start record (obviously with higher divisions involved too) is 9, 1, 13, 13, 10 & 8....His highest number of starts ever has been 24 back in 2014...

N'lundulu played more minutes for Cheltenham in half a season last year, than Bod's managed in a full season since 2016/17...(obviously there are no prizes for "being available to play") - that is more than Bod's time on the pitch, since he started with us...

As for Cameron, I now have him on net minus 1 goals since joining us.

[The_Gun]

Interesting quantitative context there, Worthy. Those numbers would suggest he probably does have underlying fitness issues which are limiting his game time. Regardless, I would still be reasonably surprised if he doesn't get a longer stretch on Saturday.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I could sorta see why Jerome came on last night but it didn't work - again. The way he gave away that penalty - had it been Dan there'd have been a firing squad.

But then Dan was also, again, deeplky disappointing last night.

I would like to see Bod start on Saturday, if Vic isn't fit. I do wonder if fitness is a problem. We have five strikers but two of them frankly don't look up to it, so it's hardly like he's being crowded. There must be more to it.

Can you explain what theory would justify Jerome coming on first? Even if the idea was to just effectively use him as a ‘head the ball away from corners’ type, why can’t Bod also do that?

I don’t really get Jerome at all. What does he want to offer here? He doesn’t hold the ball. Doesn’t seem to be willing to even just run a channel and hold it in corners or just help get us up the pitch. I expected him to be that wily old awkward target man for these scenarios but he’s the opposite. He drops into midfield and barely registers leaving us completely without any possibility of getting out from defensive areas.

To me he looks like a player who had pace, but that has gone and he has no idea what to do now. I expected a bit of a Kevin Davies type yet it’s more like watching Mario Jardel with two left feet!

I can try to explain a theory I don't necessarily share, although I do feel I might be wasting my time with someone who habitually refers to anything he disagrees with as "hogswash and nonsense"

The idea, as you say later on, is that Jerome is supposed to be a canny physical operator – in some games we need more of a Kevin Davies type than, I dunno, a Diouf. Especially when we're expecting an aerial assault, it makes sense that we bring on someone with vast experience and hard-won physicality. Bod wins some headers but I don't think he's the greatest, for someone standing 6ft 3. (Better than Dan, mind, who two or three times last night jumped under the flight of the ball as he reverted to resembling someone in the wrong career.)

That's the idea. To an extent, it worked against Derby, and we won. It didn't at Reading, and we lost. And last night, although we won, his overall scorecard was marked way down by giving away a penalty that would be annoying if it were from a callow kid, let alone someone with 600 games in the bank.

He has shown in flashes that he used to be a player, but not nearly enough, and I can understand why people question the decison. I did myself, emotionally, then rationalised it intellectually by trying to understand the manager's decision (the rest is old men shouting at clouds).

As for Bod.... even after the Jerome decision, I would have brought him on earlier (while acknowledging that even a tired Dion is a more likely scorer). That said, in his 15 minutes I didn't see greatness. One or two good touches but again, he didn't scream PICK ME. Like so many sub strikers this season - which is the problem. I can only hope Bod gets his groove back, because I'm beginning to fear Jerome's has rusted up and Dan's never going to find his.

Simple question: If Vic's fit Saturday, who among us would pick Bod in the XI?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Last season, even when he was fit, he was only used for 759 minutes across 21 league games...about 30 minutes a match. So I don't think it's something that's just happened this season. Don't think Evatt sees him as a starter (that might be "fitness related")...Since 2018, his start record (obviously with higher divisions involved too) is 9, 1, 13, 13, 10 & 8....His highest number of starts ever has been 24 back in 2014...

N'lundulu played more minutes for Cheltenham in half a season last year, than Bod's managed in a full season since 2016/17...(obviously there are no prizes for "being available to play") - that is more than Bod's time on the pitch, since he started with us...

As for Cameron, I now have him on net minus 1 goals since joining us.

Fascinating stuff.

I think I also dug out some stats that suggested even in his best spell here, that first six months, he was better as a sub (or "finisher") than a starter.

[officer_dibble]

I’d like to see JDB start, with Victor on the bench on Saturday. JDB should be fully fit now and really is a better player than the pizza cup - Dans not shown that he is. Jerome, if he was a horse we would be talking about whether a shotgun or lethal injection were required!!

I was actually wondering whether matheson should have got on last night further up the field, at least he can move.

We’ve got to get through to Christmas and sort this out - release Jerome (or keep him for the Bs) and get Dan out on loan. Until then JDB is the third or second forward!

[Mar]

Can you explain what theory would justify Jerome coming on first? Even if the idea was to just effectively use him as a ‘head the ball away from corners’ type, why can’t Bod also do that?

Agreed. I've seen Bod able to do all of that. I can't justify the decision, other than perhaps a financial incentive for the club regarding appearance bonuses, or game time?

I don’t really get Jerome at all. What does he want to offer here? He doesn’t hold the ball. Doesn’t seem to be willing to even just run a channel and hold it in corners or just help get us up the pitch.

I think that's harsh. He does seem willing and capable of running the ball into corners, and we've seen that a fair few times.

Last night however was shocking. If he didn't want to play then that would've been the clear sign of it. He did look to catch their player with his arm and did look before he did it. It was clumsy.

I expected him to be that wily old awkward target man for these scenarios but he’s the opposite. He drops into midfield and barely registers leaving us completely without any possibility of getting out from defensive areas.

To me he looks like a player who had pace, but that has gone and he has no idea what to do now. I expected a bit of a Kevin Davies type yet it’s more like watching Mario Jardel with two left feet!

I like the idea of Jerome and want him to do well, but it very much looks like it's not working and hasn't been working for quite a while. We've seen better output from JDB since he's back. It's time we kept with that change.

[Tails07]

I think rustiness / confidence definitely plays a part, I remember watching the shooting practice they do in the warm up before games when I was in the crowd of the Reading game and I'm pretty sure Bodvarsson missed the majority if not all of the 3-4 shots he had.

When he came on last night though he was the only one I felt could actually hold up the ball and pull us up the pitch, which we really needed a lot earlier in the second half.

I'd definitely play him Saturday though, just to hold the ball up better than Dan could yesterday.

[BWFC_Insane]

I could sorta see why Jerome came on last night but it didn't work - again. The way he gave away that penalty - had it been Dan there'd have been a firing squad.

But then Dan was also, again, deeplky disappointing last night.

I would like to see Bod start on Saturday, if Vic isn't fit. I do wonder if fitness is a problem. We have five strikers but two of them frankly don't look up to it, so it's hardly like he's being crowded. There must be more to it.

Can you explain what theory would justify Jerome coming on first? Even if the idea was to just effectively use him as a ‘head the ball away from corners’ type, why can’t Bod also do that?

I don’t really get Jerome at all. What does he want to offer here? He doesn’t hold the ball. Doesn’t seem to be willing to even just run a channel and hold it in corners or just help get us up the pitch. I expected him to be that wily old awkward target man for these scenarios but he’s the opposite. He drops into midfield and barely registers leaving us completely without any possibility of getting out from defensive areas.

To me he looks like a player who had pace, but that has gone and he has no idea what to do now. I expected a bit of a Kevin Davies type yet it’s more like watching Mario Jardel with two left feet!

I can try to explain a theory I don't necessarily share, although I do feel I might be wasting my time with someone who habitually refers to anything he disagrees with as "hogswash and nonsense"

The idea, as you say later on, is that Jerome is supposed to be a canny physical operator – in some games we need more of a Kevin Davies type than, I dunno, a Diouf. Especially when we're expecting an aerial assault, it makes sense that we bring on someone with vast experience and hard-won physicality. Bod wins some headers but I don't think he's the greatest, for someone standing 6ft 3. (Better than Dan, mind, who two or three times last night jumped under the flight of the ball as he reverted to resembling someone in the wrong career.)

That's the idea. To an extent, it worked against Derby, and we won. It didn't at Reading, and we lost. And last night, although we won, his overall scorecard was marked way down by giving away a penalty that would be annoying if it were from a callow kid, let alone someone with 600 games in the bank.

He has shown in flashes that he used to be a player, but not nearly enough, and I can understand why people question the decison. I did myself, emotionally, then rationalised it intellectually by trying to understand the manager's decision (the rest is old men shouting at clouds).

As for Bod.... even after the Jerome decision, I would have brought him on earlier (while acknowledging that even a tired Dion is a more likely scorer). That said, in his 15 minutes I didn't see greatness. One or two good touches but again, he didn't scream PICK ME. Like so many sub strikers this season - which is the problem. I can only hope Bod gets his groove back, because I'm beginning to fear Jerome's has rusted up and Dan's never going to find his.

Simple question: If Vic's fit Saturday, who among us would pick Bod in the XI?

I suppose my question is more - the theory of Jerome at 37 is he’s an experienced target man who can help out in those situations…..yet the reality of Jerome is he’s offering none of those things and pretty much hasn’t since he arrived.

And the ‘hogs wash and nonsense’ is because I don’t want to be gaslit into this idea that Nlundulu has legs and uses them to press teams. That’s the theory. But again like Jerome it isn’t the practice. I watch him. He does not press. Early on in the game yesterday he would half heartedly go to close the keeper down, get nowhere near and then amble about not effecting the play.

Theory Vs practice. If Nlundulu did the work Charles did even though he is a much less skilled player it would I think make sense why he’s getting picked. But he blatantly and obviously does not.

[Harry Genshaw]

I hope there's some sports science behind it that restricting his time now, means we get a full 2nd half of the season from him.

I never understood us signing Jerome on such a long contract, at the time of us trumpeting the new moneyball approach.

Dan, I could sort of see why, if Evatt thought he'd shown enough in last years loan spell to warrant a punt on a free transfer and that he'd develop into a poor man's Ivan Toney. For a reputed 200 or 300k and that he appears to be getting no better, it's looking like shocking business.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I suppose my question is more - the theory of Jerome at 37 is he’s an experienced target man who can help out in those situations…..yet the reality of Jerome is he’s offering none of those things and pretty much hasn’t since he arrived.

And the ‘hogs wash and nonsense’ is because I don’t want to be gaslit into this idea that Nlundulu has legs and uses them to press teams. That’s the theory. But again like Jerome it isn’t the practice. I watch him. He does not press. Early on in the game yesterday he would half heartedly go to close the keeper down, get nowhere near and then amble about not effecting the play.

Theory Vs practice. If Nlundulu did the work Charles did even though he is a much less skilled player it would I think make sense why he’s getting picked. But he blatantly and obviously does not.

You asked for the theory regarding Jerome, not the practical results regarding him or Nlundulu... if there's any gaslighting going on, it tends to be with evasively shifting the basis of conversation...

Whatever our own theories, what matters is getting results in practice. We have got the two results - two wins - on the board now, but I doubt Evatt is daft enough to think the 'results' from Jerome and Nlundulu have been brilliant. Dan showed flashes on Saturday but they weren't backed up last night. Jerome... well, if he brings a calm head to proceedings he sure didn't show it when giving them a penalty.

Personally I was surprised that Bodvarsson didn't come on earlier, because the likelihood is he'll be needed at some point Saturday. It might not have escaped Evatt's notice that it took the Icelander an hour to score the sixth in a cakewalk against kids, afetr even the hapless Dan had scored two.

In the two 2023 windows we gave contracts to four strikers, all of whom were risks for one or other reason. Adeboyejo has been a mixed bag but the fact he's almost certainly second choice speaks volumes of the other three. I hope Bod can come back - right now that seems more likely than getting a tune out of Jerome or Nlundulu – but late appearances only add to the romantic notion of the king over the water just waiting to save us. Has he shown that much this season, or is it just that the others look so bad? Again, if Vic's fit Saturday, would you start with him or Bod?

[BWFC_Insane]

I suppose my question is more - the theory of Jerome at 37 is he’s an experienced target man who can help out in those situations…..yet the reality of Jerome is he’s offering none of those things and pretty much hasn’t since he arrived.

And the ‘hogs wash and nonsense’ is because I don’t want to be gaslit into this idea that Nlundulu has legs and uses them to press teams. That’s the theory. But again like Jerome it isn’t the practice. I watch him. He does not press. Early on in the game yesterday he would half heartedly go to close the keeper down, get nowhere near and then amble about not effecting the play.

Theory Vs practice. If Nlundulu did the work Charles did even though he is a much less skilled player it would I think make sense why he’s getting picked. But he blatantly and obviously does not.

You asked for the theory regarding Jerome, not the practical results regarding him or Nlundulu... if there's any gaslighting going on, it tends to be with evasively shifting the basis of conversation...

Whatever our own theories, what matters is getting results in practice. We have got the two results - two wins - on the board now, but I doubt Evatt is daft enough to think the 'results' from Jerome and Nlundulu have been brilliant. Dan showed flashes on Saturday but they weren't backed up last night. Jerome... well, if he brings a calm head to proceedings he sure didn't show it when giving them a penalty.

Personally I was surprised that Bodvarsson didn't come on earlier, because the likelihood is he'll be needed at some point Saturday. It might not have escaped Evatt's notice that it took the Icelander an hour to score the sixth in a cakewalk against kids, afetr even the hapless Dan had scored two.

In the two 2023 windows we gave contracts to four strikers, all of whom were risks for one or other reason. Adeboyejo has been a mixed bag but the fact he's almost certainly second choice speaks volumes of the other three. I hope Bod can come back - right now that seems more likely than getting a tune out of Jerome or Nlundulu – but late appearances only add to the romantic notion of the king over the water just waiting to save us. Has he shown that much this season, or is it just that the others look so bad? Again, if Vic's fit Saturday, would you start with him or Bod?

I’d start with Victor if he’s fit yeah. And I’m not arguing Bod is the second coming….more that he really should be getting more time on the pitch rather than persevering with far lesser players.

My major frustration is that I look round at other teams and given the three we have aren’t scoring any goals, aren’t changing games, and between them have one shot on target this season in league football….even if you just take a willing youngster who will run for you or fight their defenders to hold it you’d be better off. Miles better off.

We all talked goalscoring in the summer and sure another goalscorer would be far better. But it’s more basic than that. Someone who can actually just do something up top, work hard, graft and hold the ball would in fact massively improve us. Even if it was just off the bench.