Oh to be in Bolton....At Home to Carlisle United , Sat 7th Sept. 3-o'clock.

[Worthy4England]

Well, I guess 95% of the games you lose where there's obviously not a huge gap in class, is going to come down to play for the shirt, wanting it more, having more fight....

I guess the 6 we won, we must've put up hell of a fight, because we don't have much class, what with being 6 players short, and all that!

[BWFC_Insane]

Well, I guess 95% of the games you lose where there's obviously not a huge gap in class, is going to come down to play for the shirt, wanting it more, having more fight....

I guess the 6 we won, we must've put up hell of a fight, because we don't have much class, what with being 6 players short, and all that!

We are 6 players short of the level of squad needed I think to win automatic promotion. Its not like you can say '6' or nowt because we could get lucky with some things like our wing backs going a whole season unscathed etc....

But the squad for me is light of 6 players - it also has players in it we shouldn't have so in net terms I think its probably 2 or 3 light.

But that isn't the case for beating Carlisle at home.

Effort - and matching the other team is the bare minimum. We did that at Port Vale albeit not playing well at all second half. Wasn't because we weren't matching their effort (PV also put a huge fight into the game as they should).

I don't see why its not the absolute minimum bottom of the barrel scraping standard to put as much fight in as the opposition every game. You may still lose (Stevenage out fought us but lost) but at least we should be matching teams for effort and fight.

It was obvious we weren't and for a player to come out and admit that then I'd ask a simple question - what is so wrong behind the scenes that we can't even match Carlisle for fight at home?

[Worthy4England]

Effort. I doubt anyone was deliberately slack-assing it, particularly, they seem like a pretty "honest bunch." I agree there wasn't much "energy."

Wider problem is, it sort of feels like "that's where we're at." I'm not seeing a "nailed on top 2 team." I'm seeing a maybe play-offs again, with a real good following wind maybe a push at 2nd, with some iffy results maybe a push at 7th. That's sorta where it feels to me, at the moment.

[BWFC_Insane]

Effort. I doubt anyone was deliberately slack-assing it, particularly, they seem like a pretty "honest bunch." I agree there wasn't much "energy."

Wider problem is, it sort of feels like "that's where we're at." I'm not seeing a "nailed on top 2 team." I'm seeing a maybe play-offs again, with a real good following wind maybe a push at 2nd, with some iffy results maybe a push at 7th. That's sorta where it feels to me, at the moment.

I agree but that’s again a failure of the summer.

[Worthy4England]

Effort. I doubt anyone was deliberately slack-assing it, particularly, they seem like a pretty "honest bunch." I agree there wasn't much "energy."

Wider problem is, it sort of feels like "that's where we're at." I'm not seeing a "nailed on top 2 team." I'm seeing a maybe play-offs again, with a real good following wind maybe a push at 2nd, with some iffy results maybe a push at 7th. That's sorta where it feels to me, at the moment.

I agree but that’s again a failure of the summer.

Done that to death. I think plenty of people agreed...

[Mar]

As much as people want to bemoan bad business in the transfer market, let's look at what we're missing.

Our entire back three at the minute. Jones, Johnston and Santos. Weve also missed Toal at times.

Our results last season were predicated on clean sheets. We shouldnt be able to match that with that many first team players out and yet we are.

We needed a tough midfield. We brought in CMG and Maghoma, both who look to add a little bit of fight in their game.

Baxter is decent so no complaints there.

So all is not as bleak as we may think. If anything it might be worth questioning how we're getting as many injuries as we are doing and why.

The transfer criticisms lay around backups for wingback and lack of change up top. The grit we need may already be there and all we're missing is the players being fit enough.

Even with the lack of change up top it may have been we can't sign anyone that'll improve the squad significantly enough on paper within our value range. In other words, players too costly, well go with what we have.

Its probably a tough call having Bod on the books and Jerome. We all know Jerome was still under contract and Bod out of contract. The fans wanting Bod back but we'd got someone taking up that spot. It's probably Evatt needing to do right by the fans and right by the budget. The bigger question involves Nlundulu, but that possibly comes down to what he's seeing on the training pitch and the player potential.

As much as it sucks losing to Carlisle, we weren't a million miles away. Daft penalties and a deflected lob of the keeper. Ones unfortunate and the other avoidable.

We can be a top two team. But we need that rallying cry to grind out results and get a winning habit.

[BWFC_Insane]

In the summer we needed a hard running, physical midfield general. CMG is a forward who can play number 10 and Maghoma is another technical player who isn’t very good off the ball. Neither really fit what we needed.

As for centre half injuries, Johnston was pre season so known. Santos sure…I’m not convinced you would kick Jones as first choice.

We weren’t unlucky against Carlisle. We were lucky it wasn’t 5 or 6. And the fact is that whether it’s our mentality, physicality, lack of fitness, coaching, lack of depth…whatever…these games happen way too often if we want to get promotion.

The summer recruitment simply wasn’t good enough the results and performances speak for themselves…and it isn’t like it wasn’t predictable. We all knew that singing the same strikers who failed last season was not a good move.

[boltonboris]

Well, that was crap. To a man, everyone was shite. They lost pretty much ever duel and we resorted to diving in desperation.

We really need to do something about our shape and system. Barely a quarter of the way into the season and they're all fecked like they've played 50 games. When we amble out of defence for 25% of the match I really don't see how we have to just write off certain sections of the season because of fatigue

I went to a party on Saturday night miserable as sin and out of the group of BWFC fans that were there, there were more wanting him gone than didn't. I'm not in that camp, but I certainly won't be much more patient watching us get out-played at home for the 2nd time in a week against smaller squads who play at a much higher intensity than we do

[BWFC_Insane]

Well, that was crap. To a man, everyone was shite. They lost pretty much ever duel and we resorted to diving in desperation.

We really need to do something about our shape and system. Barely a quarter of the way into the season and they're all fecked like they've played 50 games. When we amble out of defence for 25% of the match I really don't see how we have to just write off certain sections of the season because of fatigue

I went to a party on Saturday night miserable as sin and out of the group of BWFC fans that were there, there were more wanting him gone than didn't. I'm not in that camp, but I certainly won't be much more patient watching us get out-played at home for the 2nd time in a week against smaller squads who play at a much higher intensity than we do

Yeah I honestly don’t know many regular match goers who think Evatt is getting things right. I think few are actively hoping he goes but I don’t know any who think he’s going to be a top manager.

I don’t want him gone simply because I have absolutely no idea where we’d find a replacement and also because this is his squad and I don’t think it’s the right point to land it on someone else.

But as someone at the match was saying, Evatt is not much different to Freedman. Overestimates his own ability, has an arrogance that his career doesn’t yet match and is too slow to change or admit he’s got things wrong.

I think the fundamental issue is how much he believes his own mantra. Confidence is a good thing if you are right in the first place but ‘trust the process’ ‘we are a special club like no other’ (in terms of what he and his staff do) stuff he comes out with is a bit fantasy land when we are as you say being outplayed, outfought and essentially battered at home by Carlisle.

I think if he was a bit more honest in his assessment of things it wouldn’t be as bad. The lad at Notrs County seems to come out win lose or draw with completely honest assessments of the game and his players performances. I guess that can be a bit risky but I’d prefer that to listening to nonsense like ‘oh we are tired’…it’s October, you’ve played three games in a week just like Carlisle have…they have far fewer resources…why are we tired?

[Mar]

In the summer we needed a hard running, physical midfield general. CMG is a forward who can play number 10 and Maghoma is another technical player who isn’t very good off the ball. Neither really fit what we needed.

As for centre half injuries, Johnston was pre season so known. Santos sure…I’m not convinced you would kick Jones as first choice.

CMG is a player that looks like he can put himself about a bit more than what we previously had. The number 10 role is akin to the CAM role which can be leveraged as an extra man to tackle in midfield. He strikes me as a more physical version of Sheehan. Maghoma is a fast player that presumably will be used to improve the tackling, the off the ball work, i'd imagine is something that Evatt's set his sights on training him on. Regardless, both CMG and Maghoma look to be genuine contenders for contributing to that midfield in terms of physicality.

Regarding centre half injuries, it would be ludicrous to think that missing those three wouldn't have an impact. Appearances for the players would suggest they're clearly first choice: Jones (46), Santos (39), Johnston (45). Even this season, they've been first choice when available: Jones (12), Santos (9).

Our results are reasonable given our injury crisis. The performance levels seem less so. I think we're all relatively under the impression we missed a few transfer opportunities that we should've took and thats probably had a significant impact on rotating players. It doesn't look like there's confidence to rotate, and we're consistently using players more than we probably should with Morley and Matheson not being trusted on the pitch to start a Tuesday match despite being fully fresh fitness wise.

We weren’t unlucky against Carlisle. We were lucky it wasn’t 5 or 6. And the fact is that whether it’s our mentality, physicality, lack of fitness, coaching, lack of depth…whatever…these games happen way too often if we want to get promotion.

The summer recruitment simply wasn’t good enough the results and performances speak for themselves…and it isn’t like it wasn’t predictable. We all knew that singing the same strikers who failed last season was not a good move.

The recruitment is always going to come under scrutiny. Presumably the club may have been a little hamstrung by Jerome being on for another year. Nlundulu is clearly Evatt's pet project and Bod was wanted fairly universally for resigning a contract. It would paint a completely different picture if CMG was available and scoring, but again, we're impacted with injuries.

[Bertie Wooster]

I wasn't going to post after Saturday as I was so angry with the absolute shite on display (not for the 1st time this season)

It won't be a surprise but I want Evatt to go, he hasn't got a clue regarding what's required to get us out of league 1. Saturday was absolutely turgid, the football slow & ponderous with zero intensity - its like watching walking football with an over 50's team.

He is incapable of changing tactics midway through a game & how on earth are our players so unfit & tired - what are we 11 games into the season, and this being the 2nd international break, the last one was only 3-4 weeks ago. I've had enough of his excuses, and as most have said (and as JDC said after the game), they outfought us as do many teams, yet Evatt keeps saying the players hurt more than the fans - what a load of rubbish. I know loads of regulars who have had enough of Evatt and the slow, boring football we play. The odd game that we start ok, we come out in the 2nd half absolutely knackered and devoid of ideas - he certainly doesn't fire them up with his half time team talks. I won't be wasting my time going until things improve dramatically tempo & intensity wise as I'm sick of this slow pedestrian, sideways & backwards rubbish served up by Evatt and the players. We have gone significantly backwards this season due to simply awful recruitment in the summer (and last January) by Evatt & Markham. It's almost like they don't want to go up - but at least we have new TV sized scoreboards & mid-perimeter advertising (that at times gives me a headache)

Get rid and bring Chris Wilder in ASAP

[BWFC_Insane]

I wasn't going to post after Saturday as I was so angry with the absolute shite on display (not for the 1st time this season)

It won't be a surprise but I want Evatt to go, he hasn't got a clue regarding what's required to get us out of league 1. Saturday was absolutely turgid, the football slow & ponderous with zero intensity - its like watching walking football with an over 50's team.

He is incapable of changing tactics midway through a game & how on earth are our players so unfit & tired - what are we 11 games into the season, and this being the 2nd international break, the last one was only 3-4 weeks ago. I've had enough of his excuses, and as most have said (and as JDC said after the game), they outfought us as do many teams, yet Evatt keeps saying the players hurt more than the fans - what a load of rubbish. I know loads of regulars who have had enough of Evatt and the slow, boring football we play. The odd game that we start ok, we come out in the 2nd half absolutely knackered and devoid of ideas - he certainly doesn't fire them up with his half time team talks. I won't be wasting my time going until things improve dramatically tempo & intensity wise as I'm sick of this slow pedestrian, sideways & backwards rubbish served up by Evatt and the players. We have gone significantly backwards this season due to simply awful recruitment in the summer (and last January) by Evatt & Markham. It's almost like they don't want to go up - but at least we have new TV sized scoreboards & mid-perimeter advertising (that at times gives me a headache)

Get rid and bring Chris Wilder in ASAP

I mean we’d all love Wilder but let’s be realistic……even if FV promised him the moon he ain’t coming here….

[Worthy4England]

Well, that was crap. To a man, everyone was shite. They lost pretty much ever duel and we resorted to diving in desperation.

We really need to do something about our shape and system. Barely a quarter of the way into the season and they're all fecked like they've played 50 games. When we amble out of defence for 25% of the match I really don't see how we have to just write off certain sections of the season because of fatigue

I went to a party on Saturday night miserable as sin and out of the group of BWFC fans that were there, there were more wanting him gone than didn't. I'm not in that camp, but I certainly won't be much more patient watching us get out-played at home for the 2nd time in a week against smaller squads who play at a much higher intensity than we do

Yeah - that's the bit that concerns me most, rather than our current points tally. There are only 2 promotion seasons we've had more points than this after 11 games. They were both the seasons we came down from the Prem when we were on 21 points in 1998/9 - going up in the play-offs and 1996/7 we were a lot further ahead..on 27 points.

All the other promotion seasons, we had less but as Insano say's times have probably changed. But without the 1996/7 type of start, you have to go on a fairly significant winning run and I'm not sure we have the consistency to do that.

[TANGODANCER]

Losing to Carlise was no shock during the match. You could see it coming a mile off. Our ever risky tippy-tappy possession football constantly saw us penned in and too often disposessed by an aggressive attacking team (this league is full of such) and much the same applied up front. What on earth use is twenty four passes that end up back with our defence or goalkeeper? When we did get forward we left more space behind us than Wales and were repeatedly left for dead with pace. The young kid they brought on as a sub right winger, cut our defence to ribbons.

Despite this, did we affect a change of plan? No sir, more of the same. Despite being behind, did we abandon cunning plan number one, savage their attacks and and bombard their box with our own attacks? Again, no sir. Stick with the plan . Jon Bod is a clever striker who must be utterly fed up of bench-warming whilst less skilful than he play from the off. Just how many telling shots die we get on their goal?

My sentiments are not unique of clever, they are echoed here weekly, but I.E needs to take note and stop the pass the live hand grenade method and show some fight. Moss Bank Rovers Saturday morning games had more passion than a Whites Home game. Success is earned by points, points earned by winning and all the Guy Fawkes plans count for naught when the thunderflash fireworks turn out to be sparklers and Roman Candles. Back to the drawing board Mr Evatt.

[Worthy4England]

There are a couple of things I currently doubt.

One is Ian Evatt will throw out his principles - if we're going to win, it'll be broadly on his terms (or at worst as many of them as he can cram in without losing face). He's not suddenly going to think JCH would be a great signing, that we could afford and he could get to fit very easily.

The other is maybe a bit weirder but FV don't strike me as being mentally in the position of some of our fans, in terms of when to judge something isn't working nor what to do about it. I think it'd take a much worse set of results than we currently have for them to contemplate replacing IE...I've not got anything substantive to base that upon, but there does seem to be a strong bond between IE and the Board (which you'd hope for). The other thing is one board member is a lifelong Bolton fan, so unless he's getting twitchy, I don't see anything changing anytime soon. I do wonder how long term Shazza's appetite would be if the plan didn't deliver - because at the top level, it probably has (just about, so far)

As for Chris Wilder, would he know where to start with our squad? Not a critcism nor a comparison, just a "might take longer than we think for someone like Wilder to come in and make it all right again!" - so you'd really have to be in the "Evatt will never make it camp" to make such a fundamental change...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Chris Wilder is a funny one. For a while back there he was statistically/arguably the best manager in the country - promoted with Northampton from the Fourth then Sheff U from the Third and the Second and bloodied a few noses in the top flight.

Then it fell to pieces. He had a year at Boro and was sacked. He had a got at Watford, as all managers inevitably do, and was also shown the door.

I was worried he might take over Barnsley as that seemed a similar Sheffieldish project. And if he did end up here, I'm sure I'd get behind him, because I almost always do get behind the manager. But do I want us to get him? Frankly, no. Evatt's not done everything I wanted him to but I don't think we're a club built for sudden upheavals. And I think he's done enough to earn some time.

I'd also say, again, that he's changed as he goes along. He's never gonna "go POMO" but he adapts in formation and to some extent style – our 'vertical speed' has gone up season on season. I just suspect there's a lot of confirmation bias going on. And that there will always be people dissatisfied.

[The_Gun]

Fitness and tactics would definitely be concerns of mine also. I'd hope that the latter could be helped by bringing in a smart new first team coach, but even if we bring someone good in it's likely their impact won't be felt for a while. A fresh perspective inside the coaching set-up certainly seems like it could be beneficial anyway.

Summer recruitment I think was generally good, but as I, and many others, felt at the close of the window, we left ourselves short in a couple of positions for unknown reasons. I wouldn't be as pessimistic on this front as some other posters, as I do genuinely think that with a few quality additions in January we would have the best squad in the division. The worry is whether we can make it to the winter window and still be in touch with the current leaders.

I would still take a fairly optimistic view on the difference that Santos, CMG and Maghoma could make when they return. If I think back to Saturday, I believe that, to varying degrees, all of them would have given us a better chance of coming away with three points. I can't see how we don't improve with them all available.

I think we are all justifiably concerned about either of our starting wing backs getting injured between now and Jan. For what it's worth, I think both Randy and JDC are very good quality L1 wing backs, but the drop off if one of them goes down is huge. Running one or both of them into the ground seems a very real danger.

The other area I find most worrying for the immediate future is central midfield. I like Sheehan, I like Thomason, and I did like Morley prior to his form dropping off - but I don't think we have a solid partnership there. Sheehan is a top quality player at this level and I think any version of our best XI contains him, but he really needs a runner playing alongside him to do the defensive work. Whilst there is a tremendous amount to admire about Thomason, and he has shown that he more than merits a place in our squad, I feel that his lack of athleticism and terrible discipline mean he is not well suited to partner Josh. This would be one issue where our current personnel mean some kind of tactical tweak is required, but I really don't expect Evatt to shift away from the existing system.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think we're mostly all in some sort of 'Evatt isn't that good' but also 'there probably isn't a feasible replacement' sort of category.

And there are shades of grey to that and sliding scales I guess depending on viewpoint. I think Evatt has shown some good qualities but I can't shake the fact that the same failings keep appearing, especially in recruitment and a stubbornness that means we are continually one dimensional.

The recruitment has for me been poor since promotion. The January window in league two we went and got mainly a bunch of experienced proven players at league two level through the spine of the team (after the crazy failure of the summer) and low and behold it turned us into a team capable of the consistent form needed to get promotion.

Since then for me a lot of the recruitment falls into the 'experimental' category where I can live with it if we are basically penniless or at least initially in the league. But the last season and this for me we've continued with that sort of approach. Its taking younger players who might become great, weirdly signing very old players who definitely won't be, and players who haven't performed at the level before.

I feel that when you aren't spending anything its going to sort of be overlooked. But when we've spent a lot of money, as we did January, Summer and the spine of your team isn't any better it begins to feel like they don't really know what they are doing. Every summer since promotion we've been well short, January has been a crazy panic and this season is exactly the same.

The we come onto the system, shape and what we are expecting players to do. Its crazy. The amount of workload expected of some and then the absolute lack of work expected from others. We're all over the show and its the same shape every time regardless of need or opposition and we don't even change it during games. We've no options to change it during games. Yes we've had injuries. But to leave the squad so one dimensional with our only real subs bringing on the sub standard strikers - without any possible tactical variations in play (even when everyone is fully fit) and a steadfast refusal to try out some of the younger players (what would we lose?) - I don't think its a very good reflection for a manager who has been able to build, rebuild his squad several times over the years with the express aim of 'promotion' this year.

My other concern is Evatt has adapted as he went along but I feel this season especially he feels stuck. I don't feel like we're any better (and arguably are worse) than how we started last season and have the same points total in fact at this stage.

I think this league demands a consistency and an economic style to winning if you want to finish near the top. You need an efficient and effective team who roll out result after result with some variations to cope with whatever teams throw at you, an ability to win playing 7/10 every week and a particular sort of 'approach' to it. Its not a league where I think you can expect to flog key players to make the difference week in week out because you can't really afford an 'off day'. Compact, hard to score against, at least one superb goalscorer and pace/quality in wide areas - it is hard to see many sides going up that aren't in that category.

[TANGODANCER]

This would be one issue where our current personnel mean some kind of tactical tweak is required, but I really don't expect Evatt to shift away from the existing system.

Does "system" mean we only have one? Surely we need to have teams unable to read us and figure out how to beat us? This is a league full of decent level teams who can mix good football with shear determination to win. There are more slip-up opportunities here than a fleet of Ffyfes banana boats and we surely know that right now we have to be a bit more adaptable than just one system. I firmly believe Ian Evatt is a good manager, but he surely can read writing on walls.

All the old chestnuts like "horses for courses" , One trick ponies, Talk's cheap etc, etc, and the rest haven't changed in years and are no less true and being proved like Saturday's fiasco. We may be a far better side than Carlisle in terms of facts and figures, but the truth is, we still lost what should have been a three-point opportunity. I know all this is "No shxt Sherlock" stuff, but nevertheless the fact reamains we need to be better than we are and that won't happen till we become a bit more flexible. Right now we're easier to read then Tales of the Riverbank.

Mini rant over. Just disappointment talking...

[Prufrock]

I think he's done an excellent job so far and this season has been a bit under par but still within a "fine" range.

It's panic fanny overreacting to a bad defeat and an uninspiring win (but I think there's a saying about winning when you don't play well).

He's not perfect, I'm far from convinced by the lack of wing back cover or the forwards (for the record I said I'd have released Bod but was fine with it).

We have struggled with injuries and to be, maybe, fair (?) they've not been in places where he left us short. We're arguably the first choice back three (certainly 2 and a maybe) out. I'd have less sympathy if (maybe when) Randy and JDC are out. It's a long old slog and we aren't far behind 2ppg.

I get we all looked at it and thought "this is the year" but there's 23 other teams, and plenty of them also thought this is their year.

He's not going anywhere any time soon, either.