Oh to be in Bolton....At Home to Carlisle United , Sat 7th Sept. 3-o'clock.

[truewhite15]

I think he's done an excellent job so far and this season has been a bit under par but still within a "fine" range.

It's panic fanny overreacting to a bad defeat and an uninspiring win (but I think there's a saying about winning when you don't play well).

He's not perfect, I'm far from convinced by the lack of wing back cover or the forwards (for the record I said I'd have released Bod but was fine with it).

We have struggled with injuries and to be, maybe, fair (?) they've not been in places where he left us short. We're arguably the first choice back three (certainly 2 and a maybe) out. I'd have less sympathy if (maybe when) Randy and JDC are out. It's a long old slog and we aren't far behind 2ppg.

I get we all looked at it and thought "this is the year" but there's 23 other teams, and plenty of them also thought this is their year.

He's not going anywhere any time soon, either.

Pretty much where I am. Can't say I'm particularly surprised that some on here are completely ignoring the two games we won last week despite being nailed-on defeats. Saturday was disappointing, I was mightily pissed off about it. But it's not quite defenestrating the infant time.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think he's done an excellent job so far and this season has been a bit under par but still within a "fine" range.

It's panic fanny overreacting to a bad defeat and an uninspiring win (but I think there's a saying about winning when you don't play well).

He's not perfect, I'm far from convinced by the lack of wing back cover or the forwards (for the record I said I'd have released Bod but was fine with it).

We have struggled with injuries and to be, maybe, fair (?) they've not been in places where he left us short. We're arguably the first choice back three (certainly 2 and a maybe) out. I'd have less sympathy if (maybe when) Randy and JDC are out. It's a long old slog and we aren't far behind 2ppg.

I get we all looked at it and thought "this is the year" but there's 23 other teams, and plenty of them also thought this is their year.

He's not going anywhere any time soon, either.

And what happens if we don’t go up this season? I think that the danger is as many teams have found you can be stuck here forever thinking ‘ah we are doing ok’.

Not that I think there is any chance he goes now nor that I’d want him to, but the bottom line for me is that if we don’t go up this season that would be a significant and pretty poor failure on his part and at that point I’d be wanting at the very least him to significantly alter things rather than just keep trying the same old stuff that hasn’t worked.

[Prufrock]

Another football season happens, like always.

You sound like an Arsenal fan.

No-one has a divine right. And with the money and size of the club we absolutely should be there or thereabouts. Anything less than an improvement on last year is a "failure" of some description, but it's a long old season and lots of teams into not many spaces.

[BWFC_Insane]

Another football season happens, like always.

You sound like an Arsenal fan.

No-one has a divine right. And with the money and size of the club we absolutely should be there or thereabouts. Anything less than an improvement on last year is a "failure" of some description, but it's a long old season and lots of teams into not many spaces.

I dunno I think you sound more like an arsenal fan. Happy with nothing.

I find the chucking out of the ‘divine right’ line ridiculous too. Nobody is suggesting that but the aim from the top of the club and Evatt for this season was top two. In a season where there are no big cash splashers.

I think back to other managers who all took the end result as their success or failure and didn’t try and hide behind some intangible nonsense about ‘how we do things’. All managers at some point have to be judged simply and purely on end result and Evatt is well beyond that point how. Football is about success or failure and that’s where we sit now.

Yes other clubs want to achieve it and of course nothing is guaranteed or whatever. But that isn’t the argument. If Evatt is a good enough manager he will achieve the aim. If he doesn’t it reflects that things need to change either his approach or himself.

[truewhite15]

Another football season happens, like always.

You sound like an Arsenal fan.

No-one has a divine right. And with the money and size of the club we absolutely should be there or thereabouts. Anything less than an improvement on last year is a "failure" of some description, but it's a long old season and lots of teams into not many spaces.

I dunno I think you sound more like an arsenal fan. Happy with nothing.

I find the chucking out of the ‘divine right’ line ridiculous too. Nobody is suggesting that but the aim from the top of the club and Evatt for this season was top two. In a season where there are no big cash splashers.

I think back to other managers who all took the end result as their success or failure and didn’t try and hide behind some intangible nonsense about ‘how we do things’. All managers at some point have to be judged simply and purely on end result and Evatt is well beyond that point how. Football is about success or failure and that’s where we sit now.

Yes other clubs want to achieve it and of course nothing is guaranteed or whatever. But that isn’t the argument. If Evatt is a good enough manager he will achieve the aim. If he doesn’t it reflects that things need to change either his approach or himself.

Are we at the end? I thought it was October...

[Prufrock]

Another football season happens, like always.

You sound like an Arsenal fan.

No-one has a divine right. And with the money and size of the club we absolutely should be there or thereabouts. Anything less than an improvement on last year is a "failure" of some description, but it's a long old season and lots of teams into not many spaces.

I dunno I think you sound more like an arsenal fan. Happy with nothing.

I find the chucking out of the ‘divine right’ line ridiculous too. Nobody is suggesting that but the aim from the top of the club and Evatt for this season was top two. In a season where there are no big cash splashers.

I think back to other managers who all took the end result as their success or failure and didn’t try and hide behind some intangible nonsense about ‘how we do things’. All managers at some point have to be judged simply and purely on end result and Evatt is well beyond that point how. Football is about success or failure and that’s where we sit now.

Yes other clubs want to achieve it and of course nothing is guaranteed or whatever. But that isn’t the argument. If Evatt is a good enough manager he will achieve the aim. If he doesn’t it reflects that things need to change either his approach or himself.

You're thinking of Tottenham.

Despite the doom and gloom, we're two points off 2ppg, and won 2/3 games this week.

If we end up on 90+ points, but Oxford and Pompey get 100+ you just have to hold your hands up. Once that's the rate the margin for error is so small, and you can't just decide to #wantitmore.

As I say, it's been a slightly below par start to the season (made worse by two very bad home performances in there). The histrionics are ridiculous.

[Worthy4England]

I think he's done an excellent job so far and this season has been a bit under par but still within a "fine" range.

It's panic fanny overreacting to a bad defeat and an uninspiring win (but I think there's a saying about winning when you don't play well).

He's not perfect, I'm far from convinced by the lack of wing back cover or the forwards (for the record I said I'd have released Bod but was fine with it).

We have struggled with injuries and to be, maybe, fair (?) they've not been in places where he left us short. We're arguably the first choice back three (certainly 2 and a maybe) out. I'd have less sympathy if (maybe when) Randy and JDC are out. It's a long old slog and we aren't far behind 2ppg.

I get we all looked at it and thought "this is the year" but there's 23 other teams, and plenty of them also thought this is their year.

He's not going anywhere any time soon, either.

And what happens if we don’t go up this season? I think that the danger is as many teams have found you can be stuck here forever thinking ‘ah we are doing ok’.

Not that I think there is any chance he goes now nor that I’d want him to, but the bottom line for me is that if we don’t go up this season that would be a significant and pretty poor failure on his part and at that point I’d be wanting at the very least him to significantly alter things rather than just keep trying the same old stuff that hasn’t worked.

Question for you. Do you think that FV have this season down as a "pass or fail" test, based solely on whether we get promoted this year? I dunno mate. Not sure they have. I know you and others want to cast it as such but for me the larger problem is the football we're playing and how we're building the club. To me, what I sort of hear is that "this is the way we play the game and build the Club" is higher in importance than "get up by any means this season" to the folks in charge, I don't think they've got a plan that is necessarily "reliant" on promotion this season and I'd expect nothing less from the Manager after last season, that to say our "target" is promotion - but I'm not sure he automatically gets shown the door if it doesn't happen this year.

But to the football. There's been a lot said around how "this is the way to play," "this is where success happens," etc. etc. I have to say, that for me, our style of play is fundamentally boring to watch for plenty of the 90 minutes. Sometimes, even on a good day. I was struggling to get into much enthusiasm about the season early doors - that's continued. There's been times when WTV would have been the only option and the game is being broadcast, where I couldn't be arsed stumping up a tenner. Anyone that might show something outside of the Manager's "process" gets moved on in favour of people who can run in tramlines, which is great if we're displaying lots of alternative processes to achieve the goal - but it often feels more like the time and motion man has moved in. I'd challenge anyone to tell me how this is "the beautiful game" - It seems very easy for our style to feel like it's lacking energy, even when we're 3-0 up and have run twice as far as anyone else in the Division. The analogy for me, is a tactical rugby game where the forwards never lose control of the football and it never goes to the backs, I admire it, because I played the game and I know it's difficult to show that much dominance and have the tactical nous to draw the foul. Slightly more casual Fred who's watching from the stands is likely bored shitless, because he doesn't know what's going on in the pile of bodies. Football is about energy. IE shows plenty of it judging from the Red and Yellow's he's accumulated - so I don't think it's that. It feels like we're against someone going on a mazy dribble, where they're not quite sure how it'll end up, so it all ends up looking rather telegraphed and "following the process" at times.

In the round, I think FV will continue working their plan, irrespective of where we end up. This might be a good thing for the Club overall, but I'm not sure how much of the journey I want to go on. The MF is probably the epitome of blandness for me (I'm not going to count CMG/Maghoma in that because we haven't seen a lot of them). Week in week out, they're fine with room and space to play, most anyone we can put in there can play a decent ball, but it doesn't feel like an adaptable match winning unit that responds to what's happening on the pitch. Morley played great until probably Christmas last year, then he's disappeared off a cliff - dunno whether he's changed or we've changed what we're trying to do. Demps disappears. Sheehan, I genuinely don't think people watch what he does in a match - they see two decent balls forwards and he's like the next coming, despite often not managing the defensive side particularly well - don't get it. Thomo, is pretty much a carbon copy but with more tackling ability combined with a higher incidence of yellow cards and the notion that he might not last the 90. I don't dislike any of them individually, but as a whole, it can feel very unemotive, especially for the 30-40% we don't have the ball.

Dunno.

[Worthy4England]

Another football season happens, like always.

You sound like an Arsenal fan.

No-one has a divine right. And with the money and size of the club we absolutely should be there or thereabouts. Anything less than an improvement on last year is a "failure" of some description, but it's a long old season and lots of teams into not many spaces.

I dunno I think you sound more like an arsenal fan. Happy with nothing.

I find the chucking out of the ‘divine right’ line ridiculous too. Nobody is suggesting that but the aim from the top of the club and Evatt for this season was top two. In a season where there are no big cash splashers.

I think back to other managers who all took the end result as their success or failure and didn’t try and hide behind some intangible nonsense about ‘how we do things’. All managers at some point have to be judged simply and purely on end result and Evatt is well beyond that point how. Football is about success or failure and that’s where we sit now.

Yes other clubs want to achieve it and of course nothing is guaranteed or whatever. But that isn’t the argument. If Evatt is a good enough manager he will achieve the aim. If he doesn’t it reflects that things need to change either his approach or himself.

Are we at the end? I thought it was October...

I agree with this too, apparently we had a "must win" game in the middle of September. It's a nonsense.

Here's where we were on points in promotion seasons in my (supporting) lifetime.

1977/8 P11, Points, 23, GF 18, GA 8 (adjusted the points from 2 to 3 points for a win)
1987/8 P11, Points, 13, GF 11 GA 17 -
1992/3 P11, Points, 12 GF, 13 GA, 11
1994/5 P11, Points, 17, GF 14, GA 15
1996/7 P11, Points, 27, GF 27, GA 14
1998/9 P11, Points, 21, GF 26, GA 17
2016/17 P11, Points, 16, GF 10, GA 10
2020/21 P11, Points, 13, GF 11, GA 17
2023/24 P11, Points, 20, GF 13, GA 7
2023/24 P11, Points, 20, GF 19, GA 15

So I don't think we're on death's door or out of contention. But if it's 92 points or so, the target, then the 2ppg creeps up slightly from here - so we have to be consistent. Our current PPG would bag us 83, and I'm not sure that's going to be enough.

[Worthy4England]

Another football season happens, like always.

You sound like an Arsenal fan.

No-one has a divine right. And with the money and size of the club we absolutely should be there or thereabouts. Anything less than an improvement on last year is a "failure" of some description, but it's a long old season and lots of teams into not many spaces.

The safest bet, every year is "we won't go up and I told you so." We've been promoted, I think 10 times since I've been watching, in 47 years. So just saying "I told you it wouldn't happen" wouldn't get very long odds. It's not making you Russell Grant. As Insano says, you can get stuck down here (which is sorta true), but if that's the case, why would we think it's so east to get out of here, with moderate investment? Certainly some of the "stuck" sides threw shedloads of money at it (not our sort of investment, significant investment) and still didn't necessarily make it out, the same season.

[The_Gun]

Well, that was crap. To a man, everyone was shite. They lost pretty much ever duel and we resorted to diving in desperation.

We really need to do something about our shape and system. Barely a quarter of the way into the season and they're all fecked like they've played 50 games. When we amble out of defence for 25% of the match I really don't see how we have to just write off certain sections of the season because of fatigue

I went to a party on Saturday night miserable as sin and out of the group of BWFC fans that were there, there were more wanting him gone than didn't. I'm not in that camp, but I certainly won't be much more patient watching us get out-played at home for the 2nd time in a week against smaller squads who play at a much higher intensity than we do

Yeah I honestly don’t know many regular match goers who think Evatt is getting things right. I think few are actively hoping he goes but I don’t know any who think he’s going to be a top manager.

I don’t want him gone simply because I have absolutely no idea where we’d find a replacement and also because this is his squad and I don’t think it’s the right point to land it on someone else.

But as someone at the match was saying, Evatt is not much different to Freedman. Overestimates his own ability, has an arrogance that his career doesn’t yet match and is too slow to change or admit he’s got things wrong.

I think the fundamental issue is how much he believes his own mantra. Confidence is a good thing if you are right in the first place but ‘trust the process’ ‘we are a special club like no other’ (in terms of what he and his staff do) stuff he comes out with is a bit fantasy land when we are as you say being outplayed, outfought and essentially battered at home by Carlisle.

I think if he was a bit more honest in his assessment of things it wouldn’t be as bad. The lad at Notrs County seems to come out win lose or draw with completely honest assessments of the game and his players performances. I guess that can be a bit risky but I’d prefer that to listening to nonsense like ‘oh we are tired’…it’s October, you’ve played three games in a week just like Carlisle have…they have far fewer resources…why are we tired?

You've downplayed Evatt's career a number of times recently, Insano, but take a look at the other managers in League One and tell me which of them have better CVs than his. Paul Warne and Darren Ferguson would be the only ones I'd say have achieved more success thus far, and Warne is in charge of a bigger club than Bolton who are currently below us, and Ferguson's Posh are a point ahead of us having played a game more.

I don't think Evatt is perfect, and I wouldn't be at all confident he'll ever be an elite manager, but the disrespect you and others have shown him is fairly unwarranted.

[Prufrock]

There's plenty of playing down. That first transfer window has been described as a "crazy failure" which does somewhat seen to overlook the fact that we had *no* players when he walked through the door (well to be fair, two, a kid who's found his level first in the American second tier then in the League of Ireland) and a lad whose knees had fallen apart.

And in that first window we managed to sign the current skipper and vice. Getting us up that year was a very good job.

And since then solid progress year on year. Of course we'd always like it quicker, but it seems now to be oh yeah anyone could've done that.

To suit a narrative? Whaaat.

[BWFC_Insane]

Well, that was crap. To a man, everyone was shite. They lost pretty much ever duel and we resorted to diving in desperation.

We really need to do something about our shape and system. Barely a quarter of the way into the season and they're all fecked like they've played 50 games. When we amble out of defence for 25% of the match I really don't see how we have to just write off certain sections of the season because of fatigue

I went to a party on Saturday night miserable as sin and out of the group of BWFC fans that were there, there were more wanting him gone than didn't. I'm not in that camp, but I certainly won't be much more patient watching us get out-played at home for the 2nd time in a week against smaller squads who play at a much higher intensity than we do

Yeah I honestly don’t know many regular match goers who think Evatt is getting things right. I think few are actively hoping he goes but I don’t know any who think he’s going to be a top manager.

I don’t want him gone simply because I have absolutely no idea where we’d find a replacement and also because this is his squad and I don’t think it’s the right point to land it on someone else.

But as someone at the match was saying, Evatt is not much different to Freedman. Overestimates his own ability, has an arrogance that his career doesn’t yet match and is too slow to change or admit he’s got things wrong.

I think the fundamental issue is how much he believes his own mantra. Confidence is a good thing if you are right in the first place but ‘trust the process’ ‘we are a special club like no other’ (in terms of what he and his staff do) stuff he comes out with is a bit fantasy land when we are as you say being outplayed, outfought and essentially battered at home by Carlisle.

I think if he was a bit more honest in his assessment of things it wouldn’t be as bad. The lad at Notrs County seems to come out win lose or draw with completely honest assessments of the game and his players performances. I guess that can be a bit risky but I’d prefer that to listening to nonsense like ‘oh we are tired’…it’s October, you’ve played three games in a week just like Carlisle have…they have far fewer resources…why are we tired?

You've downplayed Evatt's career a number of times recently, Insano, but take a look at the other managers in League One and tell me which of them have better CVs than his. Paul Warne and Darren Ferguson would be the only ones I'd say have achieved more success thus far, and Warne is in charge of a bigger club than Bolton who are currently below us, and Ferguson's Posh are a point ahead of us having played a game more.

I don't think Evatt is perfect, and I wouldn't be at all confident he'll ever be an elite manager, but the disrespect you and others have shown him is fairly unwarranted.

You're disrespecting your own club - Derby and Bolton are in the same bracket in terms of size and Warne can't spend any money on fees.

I'm saying that I don't think there is a glut of amazing managers down here and that's why we probably have to persevere with him. In terms of his record the point I'd make is that he has a promotion from non league and one here from league two - but say, Steve Evans has done that (and more) and I wouldn't be saying he's got an outstanding record and we must have him here and he can't be questioned because of it.

I think - and this isn't actually Evatt's fault - but the thing that most rankles people I speak to about the club is the 'trust the process' stuff that some seem to really buy into and use as a get out of jail card for everything. Oh we lost at home to a side that are near the bottom and haven't won an away game yet 'nevermind its a process' we fail to turn up in two play off games and meekly surrender to a bang average Barnsley 'nevermind trust the process next year we'll be much better'...next year we're exactly the same 'Evatt always gets it right don't worry its a process'. I mean no manager in Bolton Wanderers history has ever had that treatment. Allardyce who achieved things nobody ever had or likely ever will for example was getting pelters because he lost 5 in a row in the top flight. People wanted him out because we were functional and finishing top 8 of the premiership but not some sort of entertaining team. And the achievements he built were off the back of a massive gap in resources between us and the teams we competed with. Massively against the odds.

And we're now losing to Carlisle at home embarrassingly and we can't even question the manager's decisions or ask why we aren't improving? When he's promoted us into the premiership with a net spend of something like minus £15M and a record transfer fee spent of £500K then I might say 'sure he's beyond questioning at this stage'. But right now? He's not. Not for me at least. I think he's done a good job here - up to for me the last few windows and I think that is where I start to question whether he has the ability and know-how to get us out of this league - which is the job at hand. I'm not for changing manager - I'm just for expecting better than we have seen so far this season. A lot better. I'm sure Evatt knows we have to be a lot better too and expects it.

[boltonboris]

I do believe he's the right manager for us. I do believe he's a good manager. He has improved us every season he has been here.

I don't believe the likes of Wilder are right for us.

But I do believe Evatt needs to re-evaluate certain decisions and he has a lot to learn

[Worthy4England]

Oh we lost at home to a side that are near the bottom and haven't won an away game yet

Eh? Did we not win at Port Vale above us in the league and Cheltenham...Two wins, a draw and a loss in the League, away from home?

[Worthy4England]

Oh we lost at home to a side that are near the bottom and haven't won an away game yet

Eh? Did we not win at Port Vale above us in the league and Cheltenham...Two wins, a draw and a loss in the League, away from home?

NVM - They (Carlisle) hadn't won an away game - gotcha!

[BWFC_Insane]

I think he's done an excellent job so far and this season has been a bit under par but still within a "fine" range.

It's panic fanny overreacting to a bad defeat and an uninspiring win (but I think there's a saying about winning when you don't play well).

He's not perfect, I'm far from convinced by the lack of wing back cover or the forwards (for the record I said I'd have released Bod but was fine with it).

We have struggled with injuries and to be, maybe, fair (?) they've not been in places where he left us short. We're arguably the first choice back three (certainly 2 and a maybe) out. I'd have less sympathy if (maybe when) Randy and JDC are out. It's a long old slog and we aren't far behind 2ppg.

I get we all looked at it and thought "this is the year" but there's 23 other teams, and plenty of them also thought this is their year.

He's not going anywhere any time soon, either.

And what happens if we don’t go up this season? I think that the danger is as many teams have found you can be stuck here forever thinking ‘ah we are doing ok’.

Not that I think there is any chance he goes now nor that I’d want him to, but the bottom line for me is that if we don’t go up this season that would be a significant and pretty poor failure on his part and at that point I’d be wanting at the very least him to significantly alter things rather than just keep trying the same old stuff that hasn’t worked.

Question for you. Do you think that FV have this season down as a "pass or fail" test, based solely on whether we get promoted this year? I dunno mate. Not sure they have. I know you and others want to cast it as such but for me the larger problem is the football we're playing and how we're building the club. To me, what I sort of hear is that "this is the way we play the game and build the Club" is higher in importance than "get up by any means this season" to the folks in charge, I don't think they've got a plan that is necessarily "reliant" on promotion this season and I'd expect nothing less from the Manager after last season, that to say our "target" is promotion - but I'm not sure he automatically gets shown the door if it doesn't happen this year.

But to the football. There's been a lot said around how "this is the way to play," "this is where success happens," etc. etc. I have to say, that for me, our style of play is fundamentally boring to watch for plenty of the 90 minutes. Sometimes, even on a good day. I was struggling to get into much enthusiasm about the season early doors - that's continued. There's been times when WTV would have been the only option and the game is being broadcast, where I couldn't be arsed stumping up a tenner. Anyone that might show something outside of the Manager's "process" gets moved on in favour of people who can run in tramlines, which is great if we're displaying lots of alternative processes to achieve the goal - but it often feels more like the time and motion man has moved in. I'd challenge anyone to tell me how this is "the beautiful game" - It seems very easy for our style to feel like it's lacking energy, even when we're 3-0 up and have run twice as far as anyone else in the Division. The analogy for me, is a tactical rugby game where the forwards never lose control of the football and it never goes to the backs, I admire it, because I played the game and I know it's difficult to show that much dominance and have the tactical nous to draw the foul. Slightly more casual Fred who's watching from the stands is likely bored shitless, because he doesn't know what's going on in the pile of bodies. Football is about energy. IE shows plenty of it judging from the Red and Yellow's he's accumulated - so I don't think it's that. It feels like we're against someone going on a mazy dribble, where they're not quite sure how it'll end up, so it all ends up looking rather telegraphed and "following the process" at times.

In the round, I think FV will continue working their plan, irrespective of where we end up. This might be a good thing for the Club overall, but I'm not sure how much of the journey I want to go on. The MF is probably the epitome of blandness for me (I'm not going to count CMG/Maghoma in that because we haven't seen a lot of them). Week in week out, they're fine with room and space to play, most anyone we can put in there can play a decent ball, but it doesn't feel like an adaptable match winning unit that responds to what's happening on the pitch. Morley played great until probably Christmas last year, then he's disappeared off a cliff - dunno whether he's changed or we've changed what we're trying to do. Demps disappears. Sheehan, I genuinely don't think people watch what he does in a match - they see two decent balls forwards and he's like the next coming, despite often not managing the defensive side particularly well - don't get it. Thomo, is pretty much a carbon copy but with more tackling ability combined with a higher incidence of yellow cards and the notion that he might not last the 90. I don't dislike any of them individually, but as a whole, it can feel very unemotive, especially for the 30-40% we don't have the ball.

Dunno.

Yeah I agree with a lot of this. A lot of my frustration is this nonsense about 'playing the game the right way'.

I don't think we've actually been a good watch in a long time. The football isn't exciting aggressive football. It isn't possession football with a move through the gears. Its actually really poor stuff most of the time. I mean we aren't Jean Tigana Fulham or the Man City of league one. We're not getting people off their seats.

We had a good result at Port Vale based off a first half where we more or less used the channels as an outlet and counter-attacked them then when we had them pinned back moved it sideways without really going anywhere. Then second half spent the entire time camped in our half pumping long balls to nobody. It was effective, we won. But the actual football on display was dire.

We beat Stevenage with a pretty dull display where we managed to score a really nice goal (with a long ball through the middle and Sheehan putting it away). But again there was little in our performance that would excite me.

As you say, we rarely show what I'd call real intensity, play at a real pace and grab games by the scruff of the neck. We either dominate possession and pass sideways or actually are quite a negative side who hit teams on the counter. Its one or the other.#

I watched Stevenage and Carlisle, teams with far fewer resources play a more 'agricultural' brand of football but with real intensity, desire and commitment. And some actual power and graft through their spines and I'd rather watch that than what we put out there a lot of the time.

The big thing for me is you can sort of tell very quickly in a game when we're 'not on it' and it usually looks pretty hapless pretty quickly.

I would much rather watch (and I think its key to success) a higher intensity game where we play at tempo and control the midfield than what we actually do produce. We have one of the highest pressing stats but I believe also one of the lowest turnover stats. Which means we do a lot of running....without actually winning the ball.....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Question for you. Do you think that FV have this season down as a "pass or fail" test, based solely on whether we get promoted this year? I dunno mate. Not sure they have. I know you and others want to cast it as such but for me the larger problem is the football we're playing and how we're building the club. To me, what I sort of hear is that "this is the way we play the game and build the Club" is higher in importance than "get up by any means this season" to the folks in charge, I don't think they've got a plan that is necessarily "reliant" on promotion this season and I'd expect nothing less from the Manager after last season, that to say our "target" is promotion - but I'm not sure he automatically gets shown the door if it doesn't happen this year.

I can categorically say we are not getting promoted this year. It's mathematically impossible.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

we're now losing to Carlisle at home embarrassingly and we can't even question the manager's decisions or ask why we aren't improving?

You can question and ask all you like - it's what the forum's for, and I would fight for your right to do so. But equally, other people can question your questions. And so on.

From where I sit, not just here but elsewhere in the wider world, the insistence that "we're not allowed to say" X/Y/Z is a very weak proposition. Of course you're allowed to say it. You're even allowed to believe it. Doesn't make it so, though, because other people have their own opinions.

And, as ever, the most strident ones are usually the ones demanding instant change rather than patience and monitoring. Booing is much louder than sighing, hmming or even half-heartedly clapping. If it comes down to it, it's often louder than passionate clapping or cheering. It's just the way of things, and the interwebs are built upon it.

Current mood (mine):
Evatt? Done alright over the piece so far but right now not doing as well as I'd like.
The football? Occasionally very good but sometimes more ponderous than I'd like.
The window shopping? Got some good ones but not as many as I'd like.
The squad? Has some good players but not as many as I'd like (quantity or quality).
The future? Dunno, but everyone can extrapolate and guess from confirmation bias - again, doesn't make it right.

[Bertie Wooster]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, its football its subjective and with most sport people see things differently and it doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong. Some like me are quite impatient and don't see much if any improvement under Evatt, others think that he's doing a good job. What I will say is across the various BWFC forums & twitter its becoming split on Evatt (possibly 50/50), much more so than in other periods that he's been questioned.

Not all of his doubters want him gone like I do, but many are questioning the boring, ponderous, low intensity football that was played at times last season and for almost for the majority of this season, many are questioning his signings and lack of them as well as our poor fitness, players shot after 45-50 mins of most games only 11 games of the season (plus a two week international break, the one a few weeks ago when many players went on holiday) and Evatt moaning that no other team has had the no of injuries as we had, which is all of his making going into a promotion season with a lack of depth.

Some are also not happy with the lack of fight & bottle in the team, regularly getting out fought by teams who appear to want it more.

I'll ask a question that I asked some time ago that wasn't really answered, to the supporters who like Evatt and think that he's doing a good job, can you honestly tell me what he's improved this season from last in the clubs aim for automatic promotion (stated by both Evatt & FV).

The reason for my criticism is that currently the football is dire to watch, their is no passion, intensity, entertainment - fans are absolutely bored to tears watching Evatt's walking football. Fitness, when Barrowcelona Evatt 1st came in he said that we would be the fittest team in the league (even saying that he makes his teams run off the pitch), we would constantly press and tire out the opposition and take advantage in the last 15-20 mins of games when they tire - this season our fitness looks very poor and its the opposite, most other teams look the fitter team in the 2nd half of games, its the opposition scoring a lot more late goals.

Entertainment, yes I know 3 points is the most important thing but so is providing some edge of the seat entertainment - Evatt appears to not like this sort of player, we lack creativity do we have anyone who can beat and go past a man with pace ?, Evatt has created a team of robotic players who have to play his possession for possession sake football. Finally mentality and on pitch leadership which Evatt has failed to address, we have now had Wigan, Reading & Carlisle where we have capitulated (as well as dodgy spells against Fleetwood & Stevenage where we got lucky). Why do opposition players appear to have more desire and want it more ?

[BWFC_Insane]

we're now losing to Carlisle at home embarrassingly and we can't even question the manager's decisions or ask why we aren't improving?

You can question and ask all you like - it's what the forum's for, and I would fight for your right to do so. But equally, other people can question your questions. And so on.

From where I sit, not just here but elsewhere in the wider world, the insistence that "we're not allowed to say" X/Y/Z is a very weak proposition. Of course you're allowed to say it. You're even allowed to believe it. Doesn't make it so, though, because other people have their own opinions.

And, as ever, the most strident ones are usually the ones demanding instant change rather than patience and monitoring. Booing is much louder than sighing, hmming or even half-heartedly clapping. If it comes down to it, it's often louder than passionate clapping or cheering. It's just the way of things, and the interwebs are built upon it.

Current mood (mine):
Evatt? Done alright over the piece so far but right now not doing as well as I'd like.
The football? Occasionally very good but sometimes more ponderous than I'd like.
The window shopping? Got some good ones but not as many as I'd like.
The squad? Has some good players but not as many as I'd like (quantity or quality).
The future? Dunno, but everyone can extrapolate and guess from confirmation bias - again, doesn't make it right.

I’m absolutely aware that people can disagree. My issue is that rather than their view being ‘he’s doing well’ or ‘we can’t expect better’ it’s blind ‘trust the process’ or ‘look how well he’s done we can’t question that’.

I agree that we aren’t changing Evatt and that I don’t think we will get a better manager. What I want though as others are saying is that if we don’t go up this season that as in any business Evatt and co review why we failed look at those that succeeded and put in place changes to ensure we don’t fail again.

When you suggest Evatt needs to change some things you are met with ‘he will never change’ as some sort of a defence. If we fail and he can’t be expected to change things the next decade looks very bleak!