Who opened the door? My money is on Janus! 2024 January transfer thread.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

There was also much discussion in summer of the newly-opened overseas market.

[malcd1]

Just been looking at Guinea Bissau, their African Cup of Nations record and upcoming fixtures. They have only qualified for three tournaments - 2017, 2019 and 2021. They have yet to win a game and in each tournament managed just one draw out of their three games (they have failed to even score in the last two ACN's).

The first Guinea Bissau game is on 13th January against the Ivory Coast followed by Equatorial Guinea 18th January (two quarter finals and fourth place in last three ACN) and Nigeria 22nd Jan (won one and lost one in the qualifying games against Guinea Bissau). If they again fail at the first hurdle, we might have CMG back for Carlisle after missing just two league games against Cheltenham at home and Leyton Orient away, depending when he has to meeting up before the tournament.

[Mar]

Good to know malcd1. I suspect that line of thinking may come into the decision making around who we sign (if any) for coverage of outgoing players.

IIRC, we've potentially got the following players out:

Johnston (already accounted for)
CMG (ACN)
Nlundulu (injured)
Jones
Iredale

If we're looking at adequate replacements, at least temporary replacements and not long term, then i'd be thinking youth team players from top clubs like the Mbete and Shoretire signings that we made.

Not saying they're necessarily going to be pay off, but more just add sufficient cover if needs be. With Iredale & Jones out, we'd be left with Santos, JDC, Forrester, Toal, Ashworth, Williams and Matheson. There's a suitable back three in there with JDC, Forrester and Toal, but we'd be left short on rotation which has been a theme this season. Another body in there just to provide an option should be enough I suspect to alleviate the burden.

Nlundulu and CMG pose a different problem. Both were on the up and looked likely to be decent contributors for that month, so to lose them both is likely to have an impact in terms of rotation and seeing out games. As critical as most people have been of Nlundulu earlier this season, his work rate and closing down have been effective in seeing out games and unsettling the opposition defence enough for the rest of our team to pick up the ball on panicked clearances. Adding goals has helped his cause certainly, but like Adeboyejo, theres more to his game than just the finishing.

Sure the problems up top with Nlundulu and CMG missing would mean greater reliance upon Charles, Bodvarsson, Adeboyejo and Jerome, but I think the missing part of that is a fast and pacey player off the bench to close down opposition. Jerome's pressing levels seem decent but it doesn't seem a quick, but more of a thorn in the oppositions side. To keep playing the way we're playing I think we'd need someone with pace to press. Potentially Matheson could do that job in terms of pace, but seemingly not physicality. Ideally I think a loans in order.

Two loans. Covering for absences.

[GhostoftheBok]

Interesting that Stoke just sacked their manager (or parted on good terms, if you believe the press release). The Staffy angle is that he wanted a major overhaul (starting in January) and the club took issue with that. The press stuff from the chairman and DoF is all about how good the squad is.

Perhaps Ty isn't on his way out after all.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Interesting that Stoke just sacked their manager (or parted on good terms, if you believe the press release). The Staffy angle is that he wanted a major overhaul (starting in January) and the club took issue with that. The press stuff from the chairman and DoF is all about how good the squad is.

Perhaps Ty isn't on his way out after all.

I don’t really keep ‘across’ the Championship (hence not knowing Duff had also been potted!) but looking at Stoke, it’s not a surprise. Currently 20th, four straight losses, haven’t won in six since October. Have only scored three in that time, and two of those were in a 4-2 loss at relegation-zone QPR. Lost yesterday at home to Sheffield Weds, also in the drop zone and largely hapless. And it’s not like finishing 16th last season exactly heralded the promised land.

Mind, it’s a club in stasis. Since they got relegated from the Prem in 2018 they’ve finished 16th, 15th, 14th, 14th and 16th. In that time they’ve potted Gary Rowett, Nathan Jones, Michael O’Neill and now Alex Neil, all of whom have been more successful elsewhere. Considering they’ve been very well propped up by the proceeds from gambling (you never see a bookie on a bike), you have to ask precisely what’s wrong.

And on a side note, you have to ask - knowing what you know now, would you swap their last five years for ours? I mean it’s one thing ‘surviving’ in the Premier League, but in the Champo? Watching play-off campaigns from more successful teams like Luton, Coventry, Huddersfield and Barnsley?

[Mar]

And on a side note, you have to ask - knowing what you know now, would you swap their last five years for ours? I mean it’s one thing ‘surviving’ in the Premier League, but in the Champo? Watching play-off campaigns from more successful teams like Luton, Coventry, Huddersfield and Barnsley?

I wouldn't swap theirs for ours. The malaise around the club and the clear expectation to finish midtable every season is a depressing thought. It's like going through the motions without aiming for anything higher, almost awaiting the day where the relegation hits. The best they've had to enjoy is a League Cup Quarter Final.

It's the Megson effect. Playing depressing football and expecting to lose or to throw away UEFA cup runs. The expectation is to get relegated, eventually. It's the apathy that kills the enjoyment. Even with Coyle's tactical ineptitude and bad luck there was exciting football to be had and a genuine push towards something exciting (FA Cup SF and QF).

We've had ups and downs over the years but thats made it enjoyable and exciting. I'd swap out the times under our bad ownership, but even that makes our current times even that much sweeter.

You'd almost expect us to reach the Premiership before Stoke, given both club's trajectories.


As much as relegation is painful, I'd argue its worse to just stay still. Take a look at Morecambe's history, 3 promotions with no relegations (up until last season that is). A history built on mediocrity, that's a depressing thought. At least we've had something to talk about over the years.

[BWFC_Insane]

Here is my view - its a tricky window. Primarily because I think we've demonstrated that the squad we have is top 2 in this league or at the very very least right in contention. You can risk upsetting that by adding players to it who don't get in or mean others don't get in and are unhappy and lose the cohesion (the Asprilla effect).

Equally I think right now that the only real thing that derails us is injuries at the wrong time and place. Anyone is vulnerable to this but for me we're particularly exposed up front and at the back. And given we play a back three with wing backs and our cover for wing back is players who more naturally sit in the back three OR are less proven as wing backs - and given how critical Charles is - it feels like two pressure points. The entire 'back 5' and front 2.

Jones and Iredale for example - if they do go - that's a lot of travel, and risk at a bad time. When they come back who knows what shape they'll be in. You could add an injury on top somewhere and its not hard to see us struggle for a period that could derail the charge. Equally we could be lucky and they don't go and we don't get injuries and sign players who ultimately are just league one benchwarmers and hamstring ourselves for next season or indeed upset the apple cart a bit.

I do think though this is our chance. This is the season to go up. Its all there for us. No doubt the division is weaker. There aren't the massive spenders here. The relegated teams have all had some issues - which rules two out and the third are decent but have lost some of their best players. If we are to sign players in January for me there are two types - 1) loans - as cover. 2) established players who are statement signings that cement our position.

If we decide to just cover up then some loans are the best route. If we decide to sign people then don't go for projects at this stage or developing players. Get ones ready and established to deliver now because that's the job. The projects can come in the summer.

One or two established players would probably tip us over the edge. If that's unaffordable or not possible I think we just try for some premiership/champo loans to make sure the numbers are there in those key areas.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I do think though this is our chance. This is the season to go up. Its all there for us. No doubt the division is weaker. There aren't the massive spenders here. The relegated teams have all had some issues - which rules two out and the third are decent but have lost some of their best players. If we are to sign players in January for me there are two types - 1) loans - as cover. 2) established players who are statement signings that cement our position.

If we decide to just cover up then some loans are the best route. If we decide to sign people then don't go for projects at this stage or developing players. Get ones ready and established to deliver now because that's the job. The projects can come in the summer.

One or two established players would probably tip us over the edge. If that's unaffordable or not possible I think we just try for some premiership/champo loans to make sure the numbers are there in those key areas.

I agree with almost all of this.

What I would clarify is that phrase 'projects'. I don't necessarily think we should sign a striker who might come good in 12 months. But several of the players we've signed in Januarys (Januaries? No, Januarys) have been notably better the following season (eg Dapo, Demps, Randell), so there's a 'progression' rather than a project, if you like.

For the record, we still need to look out for players we can aqcuire, develop and sell; it's just perhaps not the main objective right now. Mind you, given we're reeeeeasonably happy with the squad, maybe it's actually a good time.

But what I would say - and what sings through your post - is that anyone we sign in January should be a solid contender to play in the Champo next season. (That could include a developing big-club loanee – if they and we are successful this season, we're in prime position to get them back next time at the higher level.)

[Worthy4England]

There may well be two things going on at once here. One is that we sign someone, happy in the knowledge they're going to take maybe 6-12 months to integrate into the team.

The other is someone we sign, who we hope will integrate and/or become useful maybe within a couple of weeks, in the event Dion (or JDC in my book) - might become unavailable due to injury. Someone covering those two positions who will be ready in 6-12 months, probably isn't ideal. That seems like a tougher proposition, but I think is where Insano's at with his comments? (I'm in a similar place) - which is why I wouldn't be opposed to a loan, who fit that bill better than a permy who's 6-12 months out - a year 1 Bod or Baka or even a King Arthur, who might not be fully integrated into the beautiful patterns of play, but have enough nous, to turn a game...

[Prufrock]

It's tricky but it's very much the "good problem to have" tricky!

Not much else to add, I'm in broadly the same place. Ideally you strengthen while you're on top and we can get targets we've already identified. I'm sure the calls will go in but I also wouldn't be surprised if not a lot happens beyond a loan or two. Will depend on the content of those calls!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yep. As (I think) Ghost said, Dan's injury might expedite a deal we were eyeing for summer anyway. I don't think it will have us throwing darts at a board or picking names from a tombola.

[BWFC_Insane]

I do think though this is our chance. This is the season to go up. Its all there for us. No doubt the division is weaker. There aren't the massive spenders here. The relegated teams have all had some issues - which rules two out and the third are decent but have lost some of their best players. If we are to sign players in January for me there are two types - 1) loans - as cover. 2) established players who are statement signings that cement our position.

If we decide to just cover up then some loans are the best route. If we decide to sign people then don't go for projects at this stage or developing players. Get ones ready and established to deliver now because that's the job. The projects can come in the summer.

One or two established players would probably tip us over the edge. If that's unaffordable or not possible I think we just try for some premiership/champo loans to make sure the numbers are there in those key areas.

I agree with almost all of this.

What I would clarify is that phrase 'projects'. I don't necessarily think we should sign a striker who might come good in 12 months. But several of the players we've signed in Januarys (Januaries? No, Januarys) have been notably better the following season (eg Dapo, Demps, Randell), so there's a 'progression' rather than a project, if you like.

For the record, we still need to look out for players we can aqcuire, develop and sell; it's just perhaps not the main objective right now. Mind you, given we're reeeeeasonably happy with the squad, maybe it's actually a good time.

But what I would say - and what sings through your post - is that anyone we sign in January should be a solid contender to play in the Champo next season. (That could include a developing big-club loanee – if they and we are successful this season, we're in prime position to get them back next time at the higher level.)

I think that we all accept it takes players a while to adjust to us. I absolutely adore Toal but I'd not be mad keen on dipping into Ireland in January given that I suspect you are looking at a fair old number of months for someone to get up to speed and make a first team contribution.

So yes a Williams, Dempsey type who are able to play now but hopefully can get better and contribute next season (hopefully a league up) are for me where we'd look. Players who are proven and established at this level of football (or a higher one).

[GhostoftheBok]

I broadly agree with Insane, but there are (as ever) caveats.

Our work doesn't exist in a vacuum and if a player we want is available in January then other clubs will likely go in for him, forcing our hand. Broadly speaking, the market will dictate what we do.

Likewise, if we think we can avoid a summer bidding war (or loan in a player to get him bedded in) we will likely do that.

[Worthy4England]

The good news about all this optimism is that we're probably only ever a couple of poor performances, away from needing "5 or 6"

I get that the market determines what we can do, but do you think we're looking for immediate cover over longer term prospects? It would be great to get "both" in a one stop shop in January, but I still think that whilst we've been relatively lucky with injuries to key players, that's my largest concern at the moment. The loss of Dion and/or JDC might make us look a rather different prospect.

[Prufrock]

From everything Evatt and Markham have said I'm pretty sure their first priority will be players we'd want anyway rather than rushing to "just" get cover.

But I also think they both fully believe and sign up to the sustainability and not paying over the odds to rush something through/pay over the odds.

E.g. we might get a Dion/Dempsey type where they're out of contract the next summer but we'll pay a smallish fee to get them now (as much to avoid a summer bidding war as for cover) but if the selling club want the moon I don't think we'll feel bounced into it.

The timings make it tricky. You'd normally focus on those players and if it didn't come off look to get an Mbete type at the end of the window. But January is a big chunk of what we need cover for (assuming both Geth and Iredale go which is by no means certain but we should know soon enough).

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

January is a big chunk of what we need cover for (assuming both Geth and Iredale go which is by no means certain but we should know soon enough).

By Thursday, I think. I read that squads must be submitted by 30 days before the country's tournament opener, and in Australia's case that's Thursday.

[GhostoftheBok]

The good news about all this optimism is that we're probably only ever a couple of poor performances, away from needing "5 or 6"

I get that the market determines what we can do, but do you think we're looking for immediate cover over longer term prospects? It would be great to get "both" in a one stop shop in January, but I still think that whilst we've been relatively lucky with injuries to key players, that's my largest concern at the moment. The loss of Dion and/or JDC might make us look a rather different prospect.

I think we are broke and will spend as little as possible.

We won't do what Ipswich and Plymouth did and spend in January to make sure we go up.

We also won't bring anyone in on a permanent deal unless we think they are a Championship player, or very soon can be.

We won't do anything major at centre half, because we need room for Johnston to come back in.

Midfield is full, though there were noises we were looking at a couple of lads. I think that might be for summer.

The space is at wing back or up front.

At wingback we won't loan a body in, because we have Ashworth and Matheson. We wanted Wilson, so we won't be shy of adding the right player if he's out there; but I think it would need to be a permanent deal (or loan to buy).

A striker depends on how long Dan is out for. If he's basically gone for the season we'll need to do something and I suspect that might be where we'd use a loan as a bridge, but probably not a child.

TL;DR

No centre halves.
No mids.
Maybe a wing back, but probably not loaning a kid as we have two.
Maybe a striker, possibly a kid on loan.

[BWFC_Insane]

The good news about all this optimism is that we're probably only ever a couple of poor performances, away from needing "5 or 6"

I get that the market determines what we can do, but do you think we're looking for immediate cover over longer term prospects? It would be great to get "both" in a one stop shop in January, but I still think that whilst we've been relatively lucky with injuries to key players, that's my largest concern at the moment. The loss of Dion and/or JDC might make us look a rather different prospect.

I think we are broke and will spend as little as possible.

We won't do what Ipswich and Plymouth did and spend in January to make sure we go up.

We also won't bring anyone in on a permanent deal unless we think they are a Championship player, or very soon can be.

We won't do anything major at centre half, because we need room for Johnston to come back in.

Midfield is full, though there were noises we were looking at a couple of lads. I think that might be for summer.

The space is at wing back or up front.

At wingback we won't loan a body in, because we have Ashworth and Matheson. We wanted Wilson, so we won't be shy of adding the right player if he's out there; but I think it would need to be a permanent deal (or loan to buy).

A striker depends on how long Dan is out for. If he's basically gone for the season we'll need to do something and I suspect that might be where we'd use a loan as a bridge, but probably not a child.

TL;DR

No centre halves.
No mids.
Maybe a wing back, but probably not loaning a kid as we have two.
Maybe a striker, possibly a kid on loan.

Johnston is out for the season so I'm not convinced on that logic. If Iredale and Jones go to Australia we're down to three centre backs and cover for wing backs would be two lads who haven't had a league start and barely played for us. I'm not convinced that would be a bright idea. It would be tempting the football gods to simultaneously rule out Toal/Santos or Forrester for a period leaving us with an issue!

[GhostoftheBok]

Johnston is out for the season so I'm not convinced on that logic. If Iredale and Jones go to Australia we're down to three centre backs and cover for wing backs would be two lads who haven't had a league start and barely played for us. I'm not convinced that would be a bright idea. It would be tempting the football gods to simultaneously rule out Toal/Santos or Forrester for a period leaving us with an issue!

I meant we need to leave room for Johnston to come back in next season, so we are unlikely to be planning to sign a pure centre half.

Next season we will have: Santos, Toal, Johnston, Forrester, Jones and Iredale.

We also have Ashworth to make a decision on.

If both Jones and Iredale go we technically still have 5 lads who have played league games at centre back. The main 3, Ashworth and Cogley - with the kid Matheson then covering RWB.

I suspect we'd just risk it, rather than pay 6 months of wages to cover one month and then have a player hanging about who won't get in the team.

The alternative I could see is getting that MJ replacement in. If Evatt wants to bring in Wiredu from Fleetwood I am all in for that.

[BWFC_Insane]

Johnston is out for the season so I'm not convinced on that logic. If Iredale and Jones go to Australia we're down to three centre backs and cover for wing backs would be two lads who haven't had a league start and barely played for us. I'm not convinced that would be a bright idea. It would be tempting the football gods to simultaneously rule out Toal/Santos or Forrester for a period leaving us with an issue!

I meant we need to leave room for Johnston to come back in next season, so we are unlikely to be planning to sign a pure centre half.

Next season we will have: Santos, Toal, Johnston, Forrester, Jones and Iredale.

We also have Ashworth to make a decision on.

If both Jones and Iredale go we technically still have 5 lads who have played league games at centre back. The main 3, Ashworth and Cogley - with the kid Matheson then covering RWB.

I suspect we'd just risk it, rather than pay 6 months of wages to cover one month and then have a player hanging about who won't get in the team.

The alternative I could see is getting that MJ replacement in. If Evatt wants to bring in Wiredu from Fleetwood I am all in for that.

I think running with Forrester, Santos, Toal, JDC and Williams with Ashworth and Matheson only cover for those roles would be too risky for a team wanting to go up. Its almost certain at least one of those first 5 would be injured in part of that time or before it. I agree the issue is signing another permie is difficult for next season but I'd be loaning.....in those areas...or a permie signing at wing back.....