F.A.Cup...Re-play V Luton at Home. Tues 16th Jan 19-45

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Ok, chances of the couch are improving however the speakers in the lounge are only playing greek so unless you are fluent there may be an issue.

I will mute the speakers as I'm sure it'll be a distraction.

Efharisto.

Yamas!

Don't. I got roped into a bar game in Greece called Yamas once. I don't recall much of the night but the next day was a fecker

[GhostoftheBok]

VAR being VAR again tonight.

[nicholaldo]

VAR being VAR again tonight.

I suspect if there wasn't a slow motion replay of that challenge, the referee wouldn't have produced a red card.

[GhostoftheBok]

I suspect if there wasn't a slow motion replay of that challenge, the referee wouldn't have produced a red card.

No idea what a ref will do these days. The studs were up. Apparently nothing else matters. Studs down it's not a foul, studs up it's a red.

[DJBlu]

I suspect if there wasn't a slow motion replay of that challenge, the referee wouldn't have produced a red card.

No idea what a ref will do these days. The studs were up. Apparently nothing else matters. Studs down it's not a foul, studs up it's a red.

He wasn't going to award a free kick. Fear of getting it wrong is ruining the game.

[TANGODANCER]

Whilst not all refs are of the Pierluigi Collina standard and nobody gets it right all the time, football seemed more fun before V.A.R was heard of. Like when we could have a sound off of the Mike Rileys and co. I'm for kicking it back out, but then again the techno world won't be losing any sleep about that. The rules of football are as nonsensical as wellies are to Irish dancing and as much use to the game as dubbin is to Nike football boots....... Bring back the elephant and.........ohh, er.

[GhostoftheBok]

Before VAR the idea English referees were particularly bad was sort of nebulous. You could put ever bad decision down to their view, speed of the English game, etc.

Now that you can see them work things out over the course of several minutes and still regularly cock it up it seems like a theory on somewhat firmer ground.

[BWFC_Insane]

Before VAR the idea English referees were particularly bad was sort of nebulous. You could put ever bad decision down to their view, speed of the English game, etc.

Now that you can see them work things out over the course of several minutes and still regularly cock it up it seems like a theory on somewhat firmer ground.

Disagree about the English part. Referees in general. Watch Spanish football and the standard of refereeing is no better.

The problem with football and why I don’t like VAR is beyond over the line or offside calls (and even some of those) decisions are entirely based on subjective judgement. But then objective and absolute rules sit on top.

Take cricket and an LBW review. A third umpire takes a look at it, has ultra edge to decide if it hit the bat. There isn’t much subjective judgement bar a few edge cases where it’s down to matching frames up with sound to see whether a spike is the ball on bat or something else. And if inconclusive then it is on field decision. But football is a myriad of hugely subjective calls with absolute rules on top.


The problem is that instinctively those running the game think making rules more absolute helps. But it has the opposite effect because you then rely on the subjective decision making of officials to arrive at reasonable and fair decisions and those officials have wildly varying tolerances from the absolute rules and interpretations of in game events.

Take handball. The rule changes only made it more inconsistent. Before it needed to be a deliberate handball and whilst on field interpretation of that might vary most people could look at an incident and make a reasonable call within a tolerance level. Now the rule changes introduce way more variables into the decision making when the intention is the opposite.

[GhostoftheBok]

Disagree about the English part. Referees in general. Watch Spanish football and the standard of refereeing is no better.

We'll have to agree to disagree there.

I could rant. I will refrain.

[Worthy4England]

With you on this one Insano (about the use of VAR). I was quite an advocate of VAR, based on it's implementation at egg chasing - which at the time was pretty useful and limited. But. As with football they continue to tinker with the rules "on-top" to a point where it's incomprehensible and back to being based on subjective interpretation (especially around "illegal tackles") - so it's a red card offense to make head contact in a tackle, unless there are mitigating elements. All the conversation is now around whether there were mitigating elements. Made an absolute mockery of an number of RWC games, where we saw people getting sent off, allegedly without mitigation in super slo-mo, where the tackled player wasn't hurt, and people staying on allegedly with mitigation where the tackled player had to go off with head injury...The whole purpose of the rule is to prevent head injuries (and I suspect future claims). Absolute mockery.

[TANGODANCER]

ish football and the standard of refereeing is no better.

Take handball. The rule changes only made it more inconsistent. Before it needed to be a deliberate handball and whilst on field interpretation of that might vary most people could look at an incident and make a reasonable call within a tolerance level. Now the rule changes introduce way more variables into the decision making when the intention is the opposite.

Fully agree there. The handball rule has no such things as deliberate or accidental any more, hand contacts ball, foul. Mitigating circumstances, ? Yeah right. Worse thing is any marginal chance and the opposition want the guillotine out....and often get it. Oh, and since when dragging somebody back by their shirt not been a foul?

[Prufrock]

I have no problem with some elements of the rules being subjective, football would be much worse if every time it hit a hand it was handball.

And then fine to have the guidelines on how to deal with that subjectivity. On handball, for example, they've massively improved it (in England, less so in Europe) so that now I think they're broadly right on that.

The main issue for me with VAR is two -fold.

1) the very existence is VAR is sold/packaged as though you can get rid of the subjectivity. Everything is pored over, often pundits sit there on the same sofa and disagree. You can't. Sometimes you have to say, there a difference of opinion and them's the breaks.

2) linked to that, no-one has a clue where the line is. "Clear and obvious error" is clearly meant to mirror the legal test of irrationally (a decision no reasonable decision maker could have come to) given all of the evidence. But week to week you see someone jump in to change a marginal call one week, and then let something much clearer go the next.

It's particularly odd in that they used to have (and still do for us) have a similar idea with appeals against red cards (and going the other way retrospective bans). Yet you'd only see a couple of those a season and now we get them every week.

So now we've got all this nonsense, more talk about decisions than ever, ridiculous delays, and frankly, are we any better off?!

I'd love them to get rid of it, but they won't. Alternatively for anything subjective (basically anything except goal-line technology and maybe offsides, though I'm less convinced that should be as black and white as others) I think there should be a panel of 3 VAR officials. Someone cues 3 real time replays of the best angle and they all vote. If they unanimously vote to overturn they change the decision (none of this farce about going to a screen), if not you stay onfield. You'll still get debates, but that would be done in 30 seconds and would get rid of all the absolute howlers.

Oh, and offsides. UEFA have had (much much faster) semi automated offsides for over two years now. What the hell is going on there?! Either it doesn't work, in which case maybe don't have the champions League final decided by it, or it does, in which case f*cking crack on.

[TANGODANCER]

Tottenham beat Burnley 1-0
Fulham beat Rotherham 1-0
Brentford and Wolves drew 1-1.

[The_Gun]

You’d imagine Luton will be going full strength tomorrow given they haven’t had a game since the 30th and won’t play again until the 15th.

A tall order for us no doubt, but at least we can play without the burden of expectation for once. A useful barometer for where we stand vs a side we may well be playing next season anyway.

Baxter

Forrester Santos Toal

Sheehan

JDC Dempsey Thomason Williams

Vic Dion


Wanderers to take an early lead but ultimately to succumb 3-1.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yeah it's a funny one for Rob Edwards as there'll be squad players underused in the league who he needs to try out (or keep happy) but he will also be aware that we're a good side (and want to beat his mate).

Worth noting as well that the FA Cup 5th round (two ifs away, I know) in on a Wednesday - for Luton, a midweek between playing Liverpool and Villa. It's by a country mile not their main aim this season.

I don't think they'll make 11 changes from their 'best XI' (whatever that is) but I suspect they may make 3-5.

[TANGODANCER]

I watched the Tottenham v Burnley game last night. Good entertaining game drought of goals until the one decider, but a good class of football that Tottenham just about deserved to win. Most unremarkable player on the pitch was the much vaunted Brazilian Richarlison who did little or nothing of note in my view.

[TonyDomingos]

Pompey lose!

[Mar]

Anyone got knowledge on how to watch the game tomorrow?

I know it's being shown in Japan and South America but not in England despite selling out home and away ends.

[GhostoftheBok]

Anyone got knowledge on how to watch the game tomorrow?

I know it's being shown in Japan and South America but not in England despite selling out home and away ends.

On Blu's couch.

Alternatively via a VPN using a one week free trial for Australian Paramount+.

[TANGODANCER]

Pompey lose!

And Stevenage go out to Maidstone..!