No Pirates up the Irwell. Home to Bristol Rovers, Sat 16th Dec, 3-0'clock

[nicholaldo]

I don't understand why Evatt substituted Charles when he did as opposed to just seeing out the half.

And neither do I understand why we opted to go into the season with adequate wing-back
provision.

We've now lost five league matches, including two at home and one away against clubs currently in the bottom eight and clubs with ambitions for achieving automatic promotion aren't typically granted such margin for error.

A big January transfer window and second half of the season required now (again).

[nicholaldo]

The silver lining is we can still get ourselves back in the mix by winning our games in hand.

[GhostoftheBok]

The silver lining is we can still get ourselves back in the mix by winning our games in hand.

9 points off top is 9 points off top, game in hand or not.

We were short at the end of the summer and I'd say we've done very well of it for the most part. Win our game in hand and we're 2nd.

The idea that we've done well despite not getting key targets, so we can just carry on, is questionable - to say the least.

Every other team will strengthen. If we're just sneaking it as a top 2 side then not keeping up with the Joneses will see us in the play-offs.

We have clear weaknesses, we should try and fix them.

[nicholaldo]

The silver lining is we can still get ourselves back in the mix by winning our games in hand.

9 points off top is 9 points off top, game in hand or not.

We were short at the end of the summer and I'd say we've done very well of it for the most part. Win our game in hand and we're 2nd.

The idea that we've done well despite not getting key targets, so we can just carry on, is questionable - to say the least.

Every other team will strengthen. If we're just sneaking it as a top 2 side then not keeping up with the Joneses will see us in the play-offs.

We have clear weaknesses, we should try and fix them.

It is.

But I refer you to your second paragraph.

[BWFC_Insane]

We don’t have an adequate wing back either side. Williams at his best maybe is passable but he’s off it right now. JDC is an honest good sort but he’s miles off the quality you need week in week out in that role going forwards…

We need wing backs.

We need centre half who isn’t liable to decide they want to have Christmas off or wilt when the big games come.

We need another striker.

[GhostoftheBok]

It is.

But I refer you to your second paragraph.

I only care about 1st right now.

I said that the end of the summer that I didn't think we'd done enough to be the top side in the league, but that I thought we'd otherwise do well.

This January I'll be fully back in "If you're not first, you're last" mode for a month.

[BWFC_Insane]

Anything short of promotion is nothing. It’s worthless. Abject failure.

I’m a bit sick of having a bunch of players so mentally weak that a team that puts it on us turns them to jelly and a bad result apparently leaves them unable to perform.

How weak is it that after such a winning run one defeat means we have a ‘hangover’ and lose the next game…because we gift it to the other side.

Evatt says it’s no problem……we are still on track…maybe if he showed some more urgency and more concern and action instead of ‘ah well, we knew we were mentally weak what you gonnna do’…it might transmit to his players. Maybe if the captain could have some active and urgent body language instead of looking like he’s been on a 3 day bender and moving is a bit of a big ask and maybe if when we aren’t playing well we collectively grind it out rather than collapsing into a heap of rubble we’d be more on track……

[TANGODANCER]

We had a good opportunity to get clear up there and blew it in the last couple of games; games effectively we should have won if we're going to be contenders. Right now we're not an exceptional side, too weak at the back and prone to be caught pants down. Rico looked like (forgive this) the proverbial carthorse and even before he got carded was decidedly second best to their front men. Our clearance balls were too often hit and hope efforts, and even though we were a bit unlucky in front of goal we never made a real chance till too late.. Toal, I'm still unsure about, be he didn't look in charge of much today, Irish international or no.
They clattered our forward, we ran off theirs and inevitable lost out. They had more space than an astronaut on a moon walk.

Okay, what's done's done, but a big improvement is need and soon. Get on it Mr Evatt.

[Harry Genshaw]

Very poor and very frustrating. Too many off their game at present. Possession based football is great when it comes off and can be a delightful spectacle (eg 4th goal v Exeter). When it's done badly, like today, side, side, back, side, side, back followed by panicked hoof into nowhere, it's enough to drive you batty.

Just as an aside - that must be about the 14th or 15th time I've seen us play Bristol Rovers over the years, I can't recall both sides playing in their first choice kits before.

[Mar]

I feel like if we'd've met this Bristol Rovers side pre Oxford, we'd've battered them 4 or 5.

They've caught us at exactly the right time for them and our heads have gone.

Toal is becoming a weak link and his being targeted is resulting in so much wasted possession.

The better managers picked up on it last season, resulting in the Barnsley thing of them forcing the ball to him and just waiting to get it back.

This season it's an open secret amongst the pressing sides.

He wants to run, tackle and head. He hates the football.

What I will say in his favour is he didn't hide this time. Against Pompey he didn't want to know. Today he actively offered for the ball and tried his best. Fair play to him on that score.

Toal reminds me of early Santos. Prone to make a mistake but decent enough to become something should he get accustomed to it. The whole issue when pressed is exactly that, something to be worked on.

Just as an aside - that must be about the 14th or 15th time I've seen us play Bristol Rovers over the years, I can't recall both sides playing in their first choice kits before.

That's because they chose to wear white for their away kits, as opposed to something that wasn't on their home kit.

[officer_dibble]

For me this week confirms the squad lacks the type of player needed to get out of this league. We’ve assembled the Sunderland/Sheff U teams that were down here for yonks. They will get you to the papa johns final and turn it on for the highlights reel but when they are asked questions by a well set up opposition in a league match, can’t handle it when it’s not going there way. We still lack leaders on the pitch, demanding more. There’s not one player who can’t be upgraded on in January and if we are serious about going up (no better chance than this year) Sharon’s going to have to get the cheque book out, or we’ll have to trade.

Plan B as well… to sub Charles yesterday cos the team can’t play with two centre halves is just poor…

[GhostoftheBok]

Toal reminds me of early Santos. Prone to make a mistake but decent enough to become something should he get accustomed to it. The whole issue when pressed is exactly that, something to be worked on.

I'm all for sticking with the kid. This is the kind of thing Evatt will mean when he says there's "more to come" from his players.

We have plenty who will improve, but we also have to be realistic about our weaknesses. Teams let Toal have the ball, because they know he'll give it back. Next time to watch a well-drilled side watch what they do when Toal gets the ball. Their forwards will start to creep into positions for the counter even before Toal makes a pass, because they have been told to assume his passing will lead to immediate counter attacks.

Toal's transition recovery is his strongest trait (same as Rico), but his creation of those transitional moments remains a huge issue for us.

It's why we signed Forrester, who has that on-the-ball skill set Toal lacks. It was blindingly obvious last season and was the defining feature of the play offs.

Dion can't link play. Vic's first touch is dodgy. Bod is powder puff. Rico lacks agility. Morley has no left foot. Players have weaknesses and you win games by mitigating them. Toal's is using the ball at feet.

[GhostoftheBok]

Anything short of promotion is nothing. It’s worthless. Abject failure.

I’m a bit sick of having a bunch of players so mentally weak that a team that puts it on us turns them to jelly and a bad result apparently leaves them unable to perform.

How weak is it that after such a winning run one defeat means we have a ‘hangover’ and lose the next game…because we gift it to the other side.

Evatt says it’s no problem……we are still on track…maybe if he showed some more urgency and more concern and action instead of ‘ah well, we knew we were mentally weak what you gonnna do’…it might transmit to his players. Maybe if the captain could have some active and urgent body language instead of looking like he’s been on a 3 day bender and moving is a bit of a big ask and maybe if when we aren’t playing well we collectively grind it out rather than collapsing into a heap of rubble we’d be more on track……

You've been saying Evatt gets that side of the game wrong for his entire tenure, but he keeps finding ways to win and is now setting records doing it.

Maybe he understands what his squad needs to hear?

[officer_dibble]

Why isn’t forester starting instead of Toal then? Maybe Toal gets a shot in the middle now with santos banned - hopefully plays well enough to keep him out of the team!

[GhostoftheBok]

Why isn’t forester starting instead of Toal then? Maybe Toal gets a shot in the middle now with santos banned - hopefully plays well enough to keep him out of the team!

Toal has been an important part of an amazing run of clean sheets. He's a good defender.

Forrester has been here a few months and will still be learning and improving on the training ground. He was excellent when he came on. He will get to the point where the manager trusts him enough to view him as interchangeable with the other defenders. That took Toal a while too and he only really got a run because we had injuries.

[GhostoftheBok]

The most concerning this right now is that our loss rate this season now essentially matches last. 5 in 20 this season and 11 in 46 last.

That's despite a brilliant run of defensive performances.

Our saving grace is our win rate - 60% this season vs 50% last. Ipswich went up with an almost identical win rate, but they only lost 4 games all season. That means we now need to achieve a considerably better win rate in the second half of the season, because we are likely to lose more games.

That means beating these crap sides we've let walk all over us on our off days. We can add Bristol to Reading and Carlisle. At most we can afford one more of those this season, because the chances are good sides will beat us at some stage.

[dave the minion]

Football fans eh?

People have been banging on about how good Toal is and what a find he was, and now a couple of losses and its all his fault & he's a liability....
Santos is widely regarded as one of - if not the - best defenders in the league, and now a couple of losses and he's a liability.... Oh, and not only a liability - apparently he can't be arsed and is lazy ?!?!?!
Charles has been scoring for fun for us and everyone was panicking when he came back from NI duty with a knock, and now a couple of losses and he's also a liability....
People on here have been screaming for Bod to start, and now he has, its his fault as well - he's too soft and the change of the top 2 pairing is now why we're losing!!!
JDC has been noted as a cracking player and a brilliant find, but now he's not good enough either after a couple of losses.
And don't even get us started on the manager. Tactically inept apparently now, not motivating enough, can't sign players for toffee it seems, despite being the best thing that has happened to us in recent history and having that recognised by consecutive manager of the month awards....

Its comical, it really is.....

This team is a good team. A very very good team. You don't go on runs like we've had and set records like we have whilst blowing some opposition teams away by being soft, lightweight or crap. You just don't , at all.
And do you know what, those very same players who were flying for us during that run don't just go crap overnight. Yes, performances in the last 2 haven't been up to the very high standards they've set themselves from some (all?), but we can't just now declare they are not worth the shirt and need replacing in January!!!

Yes, we've had 2 bad results. It happens. Look at City - they've had a run of bad results & performances, but are they now a team of soft leaderless players who are destined fro the scrap heap?????
Do things need to improve over the last 2 games? Of course they do.
Is this team capable of going up this season? I hope so, but time will tell. And do you know what, if we don't, then maybe we aren't good enough and we'll just need to suck it up and go again next year.....

And remember, it'll be reet....

[GhostoftheBok]

People have been banging on about how good Toal is and what a find he was, and now a couple of losses and its all his fault & he's a liability....
Santos is widely regarded as one of - if not the - best defenders in the league, and now a couple of losses and he's a liability.... Oh, and not only a liability - apparently he can't be arsed and is lazy ?!?!?!
Charles has been scoring for fun for us and everyone was panicking when he came back from NI duty with a knock, and now a couple of losses and he's also a liability....
People on here have been screaming for Bod to start, and now he has, its his fault as well - he's too soft and the change of the top 2 pairing is now why we're losing!!!
JDC has been noted as a cracking player and a brilliant find, but now he's not good enough either after a couple of losses.
And don't even get us started on the manager. Tactically inept apparently now, not motivating enough, can't sign players for toffee it seems, despite being the best thing that has happened to us in recent history and having that recognised by consecutive manager of the month awards....

If that's aimed at my post, no.

These issues have been evident for ages and Evatt's ability to build a team that emphasises what the players can do and hides their flaws is what makes him such a good manager.

It's not "a couple of losses and now they're crap", it's that they are in the lower leagues for a reason and we have to understand that.

[BWFC_Insane]

Anything short of promotion is nothing. It’s worthless. Abject failure.

I’m a bit sick of having a bunch of players so mentally weak that a team that puts it on us turns them to jelly and a bad result apparently leaves them unable to perform.

How weak is it that after such a winning run one defeat means we have a ‘hangover’ and lose the next game…because we gift it to the other side.

Evatt says it’s no problem……we are still on track…maybe if he showed some more urgency and more concern and action instead of ‘ah well, we knew we were mentally weak what you gonnna do’…it might transmit to his players. Maybe if the captain could have some active and urgent body language instead of looking like he’s been on a 3 day bender and moving is a bit of a big ask and maybe if when we aren’t playing well we collectively grind it out rather than collapsing into a heap of rubble we’d be more on track……

You've been saying Evatt gets that side of the game wrong for his entire tenure, but he keeps finding ways to win and is now setting records doing it.

Maybe he understands what his squad needs to hear?

And yet he doesn’t understand how to stop us all of a sudden looking so poor after great runs. He said himself ‘I thought we were over this’ in reference to coming unstuck against physical sides but again it shows we are not.

So I’m not buying the ‘he knows what they need to hear’.

What they need to do is toughen up. Young player in Thomason is showing them how to do it - it’s the experienced pros who let us down time and time again.

I can tolerate not being very good. But watching your captain half arse it and sulk before dropping another clanger through lazy uncommitted play - as an example is something I can’t take. Especially when there are no as every reason post Pompey to be right at it with a fully alert and focussed body language. First ten show you mean business. In at every tackle. Win every header and dominate and get going after a disappointing result. Instead it was the opposite. Carlisle all over again.

And it’s a repeating pattern that means things need to change

[dave the minion]

People have been banging on about how good Toal is and what a find he was, and now a couple of losses and its all his fault & he's a liability....
Santos is widely regarded as one of - if not the - best defenders in the league, and now a couple of losses and he's a liability.... Oh, and not only a liability - apparently he can't be arsed and is lazy ?!?!?!
Charles has been scoring for fun for us and everyone was panicking when he came back from NI duty with a knock, and now a couple of losses and he's also a liability....
People on here have been screaming for Bod to start, and now he has, its his fault as well - he's too soft and the change of the top 2 pairing is now why we're losing!!!
JDC has been noted as a cracking player and a brilliant find, but now he's not good enough either after a couple of losses.
And don't even get us started on the manager. Tactically inept apparently now, not motivating enough, can't sign players for toffee it seems, despite being the best thing that has happened to us in recent history and having that recognised by consecutive manager of the month awards....

If that's aimed at my post, no.

These issues have been evident for ages and Evatt's ability to build a team that emphasises what the players can do and hides their flaws is what makes him such a good manager.

It's not "a couple of losses and now they're crap", it's that they are in the lower leagues for a reason and we have to understand that.

Not aimed at you - more a observation of Bolton fans/footy fans in general.
I heard it so much at the game yesterday - a lot of people seem to have very short memories of recent incredibly positive times, and can't wait to focus on the negatives. Kind of makes me a bit sick of going sometimes.
The abuse Santos was getting by a few near me was outrageous. I know he had a shocker yesterday, but the comments about him were unbelievable. The same idiots still also found the time to have a go at poor old Dan despite the fact that he isn't even playing!!!

I fully agree with how Evatt gets the best out of them, and absolutely - whilst we were loving how good we were when winning 7 or 8 on the bounce, we are still a 3rd tier team. Sadly, lots of fans seem to think we have a god-given right to destroy this league and seem to go nuclear when its not happening......