Following our star Eastwards. Lincoln City away, Boxing Day 26th Dec 1500 hrs.

[dave the minion]

So you know better than Evatt & Markham then?

Our own manager - who lets be honest, is doing OK isn't he? - has come out and said Vic is worth more than what we paid for him, and offers the team so much more than just goals, yet you still think he's cr@p?

We're all welcome to our opinions - its what makes this place such a great place - but I struggle to see why you keep peddling yours about some of our players as if they are cast iron facts.....

[GhostoftheBok]

I will keep having an opinion.

Taking a manager offering effusive praise to his player and trying to twist it into an insult isn't "having an opinion", Insane.

Keep assuming everyone reading your posts is an idiot who is too stupid to understand what Evatt actually said, by all means; but I suspect you're wrong.

When you get pulled up for doing it you can play the affronted victim, but again I suspect that won't wash with most.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Agree with a lot of that. Feels like Vic's goals have come from about a combined 6 yards.

The one we have found a fair bit is the controlled possession, get to the byline, hard and low. Could do more.

And then there's that one on the break that's effectively a long range 2v1 that needs early quality in behind for a 1v1. That's been on a lot but don't remember us ever really finding it. Definitely more goals for him in this team.

Interestingly, that’s how we scored twice at Fleetwood last time.

[BWFC_Insane]

So you know better than Evatt & Markham then?

Our own manager - who lets be honest, is doing OK isn't he? - has come out and said Vic is worth more than what we paid for him, and offers the team so much more than just goals, yet you still think he's cr@p?

We're all welcome to our opinions - its what makes this place such a great place - but I struggle to see why you keep peddling yours about some of our players as if they are cast iron facts.....

With respect he’s not going to say ‘well we paid a big fee and he wasn’t worth it’ is he?

We don’t know what he would do if he had the resources again and will never know.

[Worthy4England]

True, but he sure as he'll didn't have to say "I'd pay a lot more." By the time you get to that being a false flag statement, mate, you're probably reaching for the tin-foil...

[dave the minion]

So you know better than Evatt & Markham then?

Our own manager - who lets be honest, is doing OK isn't he? - has come out and said Vic is worth more than what we paid for him, and offers the team so much more than just goals, yet you still think he's cr@p?

We're all welcome to our opinions - its what makes this place such a great place - but I struggle to see why you keep peddling yours about some of our players as if they are cast iron facts.....

With respect he’s not going to say ‘well we paid a big fee and he wasn’t worth it’ is he?

We don’t know what he would do if he had the resources again and will never know.

Seriously? So now you think that Evatt agrees with you but is lying in public to say otherwise??? Bizarre....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

IMG_6149.gif (194.78 KiB) Viewed 10362 times

[GhostoftheBok]

IMG_6149.gif

Dying on a hill is one thing. Lying in a ditch and demanding people admit it's a hill is another thing entirely.

There's no honour to be had drowning in a badly-maintained land drainage system.

[boltonboris]

A lot of people see what BWFCI sees. I do, to a lesser extent. I expected him to be a little better on the ball and be able to get a few more shots away

But BWFCI doesn't necessarily see what others do. His overall value to the team. And that's fine. But in my opinion, we DO look a better side when he's in it. Dion Charles looks a better player when he's playing with Vic, too. Which is absolutely crucial

The measuring stick should be 2 fold with him for balance
1) Does he improve the team - Yes
2) Does he score enough goals - No(t yet)

He does need to add more goals to his game. We can't deny that.

[GhostoftheBok]

A lot of people see what BWFCI sees. I do, to a lesser extent. I expected him to be a little better on the ball and be able to get a few more shots away

But BWFCI doesn't necessarily see what others do. His overall value to the team. And that's fine. But in my opinion, we DO look a better side when he's in it. Dion Charles looks a better player when he's playing with Vic, too. Which is absolutely crucial

The measuring stick should be 2 fold with him for balance
1) Does he improve the team - Yes
2) Does he score enough goals - No(t yet)

He does need to add more goals to his game. We can't deny that.

Vic needs to score more goals. I agree. I think he also agrees, given his reaction when he does score. I'd like to see him get a bit more annoyed when the ball doesn't go in for his runs.

Vic has started 27 for us in the league and provided 12 goals/assists. He's not far off the 50% G/A rate you look for in his role, but ideally you'd want him scoring 1 in 2, rather than 1 in 3 which is his current rate.

One issue we have is he doesn't play 90 minutes per game. So 1 in 3 looks like one goal per 270 minutes this season, but it's actually every 213 minutes. That's better than Mason-Clark, Hoskins and a number of other forward players who spend a lot of time running channels for others. Over his Bolton career his G/A is almost exactly 1 every 180 minutes, which is spot on what you look for in a top player in the role. This season it's a goal or assist every 182 minutes.

He's productive. He's not far off matching the productivity of the best players at this level and his other metrics comfortably outperform other attackers. On the pitch and in the stats he looks like a good player.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Out of interest, how many matches has he scored in this season? It feels (without knowing) that he hasn't scored in many matches and when he has it has been in multiples. If that is the case maybe those dissatisfied might feel better if he scored more frequently rather like buses. Certainly, scoring 2 or 3 in a 5-0 is less important than scoring in those 1-0s and 2-1s.

I like Vic, but I do worry who is scoring when Dion isn't. We are getting goals elsewhere so far this season, but I don't think that can be our fall back position. We need a forward to be helping Dion out with the goals a bit more.

[Mar]

Out of interest, how many matches has he scored in this season? It feels (without knowing) that he hasn't scored in many matches and when he has it has been in multiples. If that is the case maybe those dissatisfied might feel better if he scored more frequently rather like buses. Certainly, scoring 2 or 3 in a 5-0 is less important than scoring in those 1-0s and 2-1s.

I like Vic, but I do worry who is scoring when Dion isn't. We are getting goals elsewhere so far this season, but I don't think that can be our fall back position. We need a forward to be helping Dion out with the goals a bit more.

He's scored in 4 games this season:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/victor- ... ler/344987

A lot of people see what BWFCI sees. I do, to a lesser extent. I expected him to be a little better on the ball and be able to get a few more shots away

But BWFCI doesn't necessarily see what others do. His overall value to the team. And that's fine. But in my opinion, we DO look a better side when he's in it. Dion Charles looks a better player when he's playing with Vic, too. Which is absolutely crucial

The measuring stick should be 2 fold with him for balance
1) Does he improve the team - Yes
2) Does he score enough goals - No(t yet)

He does need to add more goals to his game. We can't deny that.

Vic needs to score more goals. I agree. I think he also agrees, given his reaction when he does score. I'd like to see him get a bit more annoyed when the ball doesn't go in for his runs.

Vic has started 27 for us in the league and provided 12 goals/assists. He's not far off the 50% G/A rate you look for in his role, but ideally you'd want him scoring 1 in 2, rather than 1 in 3 which is his current rate.

One issue we have is he doesn't play 90 minutes per game. So 1 in 3 looks like one goal per 270 minutes this season, but it's actually every 213 minutes. That's better than Mason-Clark, Hoskins and a number of other forward players who spend a lot of time running channels for others. Over his Bolton career his G/A is almost exactly 1 every 180 minutes, which is spot on what you look for in a top player in the role. This season it's a goal or assist every 182 minutes.

He's productive. He's not far off matching the productivity of the best players at this level and his other metrics comfortably outperform other attackers. On the pitch and in the stats he looks like a good player.

Nice to see you trying to provide a balanced opinion on Adeboyejo. I would say that however good his goals to games ration looks at the minute, we have to look at Fleetwood as an outlier. He's not scoring three every game and the fact that one game includes half of his goal tally is a little disconcerting when trying to gauge his effectiveness up top.

9 goals in 43 appearances for Bolton with 2 assists, means a (direct) goal contribution every 4 games or so. We signed him from a struggling Burton side where he had 13 goals in 34 games, so I think as fans we were expecting more goals, especially in a year where we are the most prolific we have ever been.

What I would say about his role is that he's not likely to get the credit he deserves. A number of goals have been scored where Vic has contributed as a foil for other players, so using the metrics of goals or assists pretty much does a disservice.

So, we've had a year of Vic up top and we've broken our goal scored record in a calendar year and we're concerned about Vic's contribution?

For me, he can be more clinical, but the system with Vic and Charles up top is working, whether directly or indirectly. Long may it continue.



Another thing to note, Vic's not had the game time in the cups to really pad out those numbers against worse opposition.

[GhostoftheBok]

Out of interest, how many matches has he scored in this season? It feels (without knowing) that he hasn't scored in many matches and when he has it has been in multiples.

Agree with that. Scored in 4 games and assisted in 1 from 17 starts. Only 2 goals in 14 (?) starts since his hattrick.

Like I say, he has got to score more.

[BWFC_Insane]

A lot of people see what BWFCI sees. I do, to a lesser extent. I expected him to be a little better on the ball and be able to get a few more shots away

But BWFCI doesn't necessarily see what others do. His overall value to the team. And that's fine. But in my opinion, we DO look a better side when he's in it. Dion Charles looks a better player when he's playing with Vic, too. Which is absolutely crucial

The measuring stick should be 2 fold with him for balance
1) Does he improve the team - Yes
2) Does he score enough goals - No(t yet)

He does need to add more goals to his game. We can't deny that.

I see what he adds. He’s a good worker and target man. My issue is that a) we don’t really utilise that and b) he isn’t enough for what we paid.

On a free or whatever he’d be a very solid addition.

But I think what he adds to the team is reduced by what he takes away and often, especially at home the extra quality we could have up there is more useful to unlock defences.

My biggest issue is how poor his touch is. For what we paid it’s really not good enough.

But no doubt if we are more direct and play into him he’s a real handful and showed that earlier this season. We just don’t do that enough for me to say he’s critical and we play a lot of stuff that exposes what he’s not very good at.

[dave the minion]

You described him as" a liability". And you know whG, he really, really isn't....