South to East (London, that is) Leyton Orient away Sat 20th Jan 3-0'clock..

[dave the minion]

If we stick to the match as the topic, I’ll be surprised if you get anyone on here supporting that shower Dave!

Are we suddenly rubbish? No.
Where we tired / could we have done without flogging ourselves on Tuesday? Yes.
Is that the reason we couldn’t pass wind, let alone a football today? No! The amount of possession we squandered by passing out of touch had to be in double figures…

And this is exactly where I am. We played terribly (really doesn't matter what the cause of this was**) and deserved nothing, and Orient did exactly what they needed to against a seriously under-par us.

My comment was purely about the absolute comedy of some people being on their haunches waiting for a performance/result like this and then spouting the same vitriol as if we haven't heard it before.....

Sorry folks, but one crap performance does not a crap team make. It happens, we move on. The games are coming thick and fast and we need to regroup and react.

** what would those who think playing a full strength team in the cup game is the cause of today's loss have thought if we'd played a weaker team, been thumped 5-0, and then lost anyway today as the team's confidence was shot to pieces??

[dave the minion]

We should have plenty of money in reserve for 2 or 3 decent signings in January as they must still have plenty (and I mean plenty) of the fans bond money left - what was it £4.5M, where has that gone ?

I don't know, but those 2 47" HD TVs they've put in the corners must have been, ooh, £600 each...........

[Bertie Wooster]

Well no one had any inside knowledge last time you asked about the £4.5m, Bertie, so I'm not any more hopeful this go!

Hart did recently say they're looking at upgrading the sound system, so you'll be able to hear The Wanderer better as the pre-match walk on. Yay.

That wouldn't surprise me, it appears that the majority of the bond money will be spent on tarting the stadium up instead of on much needed players to get us out of League 1....priorities eh !

It would be nice for the club to be transparent and tell the fans where the supporters hard earned bond money has been spent / sorry wasted.

[TANGODANCER]

Well, the doomsayers got it right. That was awful.

The result should have been 2-1 us. Very unfairly, yes, it can't be denied, but they didn't score another and that one was a sheer cock-up by Ricardo. Although their attack tore our defence to shreds we had the best two gilt edger unmissable gifts and blew them. . In short, we got a lesson in how to play football from a team way below us in the league. Yes, Mr Irish international striker, I'm looking at you. He could have let the first chance chance bounce off his headband and scored. That must be miss of the season for sure. A score then could have changed the whole game, and the second miss was , for want of a better word, pathetic. You can almost hear the cheers and jeers ringing through the country.

I'm no stat man, but unless we stop backing off trick-dicky decent ball players and teams who are far better at the passing game than us, promotion is the proverbial pipe-dream. We didn't have a saveable shot all game except for Dion's balloon effort and that's one awful stat to admit to. Taking Vic off was a mistake as only he, Thomason and later, Maghoma and Bod even tried to beat defenders.

No we're not rubbish Officer Dibble, we just played it. A bad day at Black Rock is too kind; it was the Saint Valentine's day massacre.

[GhostoftheBok]

My comment was purely about the absolute comedy of some people being on their haunches waiting for a performance/result like this and then spouting the same vitriol as if we haven't heard it before.....

Personally, I enjoyed the "I WAS RIGHT ABOUT NEEDING SIGNINGS!" when the manager and entire fan base have been saying "We need some in" the entire time.

The same vibe as that one guy at work who always has to tell you its raining when you're both looking out of the same window.

[BWFC_Insane]

My comment was purely about the absolute comedy of some people being on their haunches waiting for a performance/result like this and then spouting the same vitriol as if we haven't heard it before.....

Personally, I enjoyed the "I WAS RIGHT ABOUT NEEDING SIGNINGS!" when the manager and entire fan base have been saying "We need some in" the entire time.

The same vibe as that one guy at work who always has to tell you its raining when you're both looking out of the same window.

I mean if you inaccurately report the point. We were light in the summer and only last week you claimed we weren’t in any rush. That is wrong. We needed to add impetus and quality earlier this window because what has happened is we’ve started to run out of steam with the fixture pile up and it’s costing us.

Key areas have been under stocked all season. We need that proper bona fide wing back and should use the money we were sinking into Baccus and Wilson to sign one now because Williams is definitely giving me bad vibes right now.

[dave the minion]

Key areas have been under stocked all season.

Whilst I don't entirely disagree, playing devil's advocate and all that, we got to the end of the first half season 2nd in the league with a couple of games in hand, whilst progressing in 2 cups OK, so maybe we haven't been under-stocked at all?

Only now we've got an unexpected couple of international absentees and a couple of injuries does it now make it easy to say I told you so....

[GhostoftheBok]

I mean if you inaccurately report the point. We were light in the summer and only last week you claimed we weren’t in any rush.

You mean the summer we left where I agreed we were light but said we'd probably get away with it until January?

That summer?

You know other people have functioning episodic memory too, right?

[BWFC_Insane]

Key areas have been under stocked all season.

Whilst I don't entirely disagree, playing devil's advocate and all that, we got to the end of the first half season 2nd in the league with a couple of games in hand, whilst progressing in 2 cups OK, so maybe we haven't been under-stocked at all?

Only now we've got an unexpected couple of international absentees and a couple of injuries does it now make it easy to say I told you so....

I mean the thing about being under stocked is it tends to catch up with you in winter when the fixtures pile up and you pick up some injuries. It isn’t unforeseen as we’ve been discussing this for ages. Since the summer.

If you want to claim we were fine all along then wait till the end of the season. If we win automatic promotion without adding to the squad then sure. We had enough. I will happily accept that I was wrong if that occurs. But my guess is that we won’t without some additions and ones that are ready to contribute instantly.

[BWFC_Insane]

I mean if you inaccurately report the point. We were light in the summer and only last week you claimed we weren’t in any rush.

You mean the summer we left where I agreed we were light but said we'd probably get away with it until January?

That summer?

You know other people have functioning episodic memory too, right?

Without arguing about what was said when - given we are in agreement do you agree with my view that we need as a minimum:

A bona fide attacking wing back - probably left sided but ideally versatile to cover both flanks
A right sided centre back
A striker

?

[BWFC_Insane]

Evatt

“I don’t even want them to think about Tuesday yet because I want them to think about what they have just done, how they did individually and collectively, and it needs to hurt them,” he said.

“Following that, hopefully we get the reaction we want, but we all need to think about how that went the way it did.

“It surprised me but I keep saying to them, every couple or three months we keep throwing in a performance like this. And it is something we have to get over and move past very quickly.

I agree with what he’s said but his most pertinent point is this isn’t a one off. It happens to us too often. Thats the worry with promotion. We can’t keep losing games like this and hoping we can have some amazing run to catch up again. Our closing fixtures are considerably harder than the next month or two and we need to have a cushion in the bank. We will need to be clear not chasing.

[GhostoftheBok]

Without arguing about what was said when - given we are in agreement do you agree with my view that we need as a minimum:

A bona fide attacking wing back - probably left sided but ideally versatile to cover both flanks
A right sided centre back
A striker

?

Striker, certainly, given that Bod and Jerome off the bench currently has the same impact as a wet flannel hitting a moving train.

I'd say we're more likely to see a right sided than left, given that Williams will (hopefully fully fit) come back into the side soon. It's what we failed to get in the summer. Whether the left is strong enough is separate from Evatt having his guys in there already to fit the jigsaw.

Some form of centre half - though again the side isn't at issue so much. I think right-sided will be the aim, but we've played "right-sided" Toal on the left often enough and he'd move across. Quality matters most. The default is a righty, though - as it's about 80% of the available stock. A lot depends on how long the player would be here for and the plan for bringing Johnson back in.

Given that a lot of this will be "improve where the market allows" we *might* see a mid come in. Not a priority, but we keep being linked to them by people who supposedly know the lay of the land.

Was hard to see more than two happening before the injury, now feels like we need to get the first 3 done. Suspect we might only get the striker and centre half and massively talk it up, as usual.

[nicholaldo]

Key areas have been under stocked all season.

Whilst I don't entirely disagree, playing devil's advocate and all that, we got to the end of the first half season 2nd in the league with a couple of games in hand, whilst progressing in 2 cups OK, so maybe we haven't been under-stocked at all?

Only now we've got an unexpected couple of international absentees and a couple of injuries does it now make it easy to say I told you so....

I think it's clear we've successfully gambled at going in under-stocked in the wing-back and striker positions, however it's now beginning to have an impact.

[BWFC_Insane]

Without arguing about what was said when - given we are in agreement do you agree with my view that we need as a minimum:

A bona fide attacking wing back - probably left sided but ideally versatile to cover both flanks
A right sided centre back
A striker

?

Striker, certainly, given that Bod and Jerome off the bench currently has the same impact as a wet flannel hitting a moving train.

I'd say we're more likely to see a right sided than left, given that Williams will (hopefully fully fit) come back into the side soon. It's what we failed to get in the summer. Whether the left is strong enough is separate from Evatt having his guys in there already to fit the jigsaw.

Some form of centre half - though again the side isn't at issue so much. I think right-sided will be the aim, but we've played "right-sided" Toal on the left often enough and he'd move across. Quality matters most. The default is a righty, though - as it's about 80% of the available stock. A lot depends on how long the player would be here for and the plan for bringing Johnson back in.

Given that a lot of this will be "improve where the market allows" we *might* see a mid come in. Not a priority, but we keep being linked to them by people who supposedly know the lay of the land.

Was hard to see more than two happening before the injury, now feels like we need to get the first 3 done. Suspect we might only get the striker and centre half and massively talk it up, as usual.

My view on left side is…Williams gets injuries. And I don’t think he has looked fit for a while…not since his layoff. He looks scared of making a challenge since coming back.

And after him it’s Ashworth who is nowhere near good enough or desperation with Iredale who can do the odd game there but no more.

On the right Cogley can be relieved by Jones when he’s back and Jones is better at WB than Iredale is. Williams can also cover the right. And Matheson I think can do a job in certain games especially home ones in an attacking sense. I’d not fancy him away in a tough game but I feel the right side is arguably better balanced than the left.

[officer_dibble]

Yeah Evatt has hit that nail on the head.

Bond money - I fecking hated the idea when we ran it. I’m fairly certain the small print said they could (and were likely to) use some/all of it on the stadium and training facilities. And I thought every bad result people would say I put money in to sign players, and then worse I put bond money and they’ve signed Dacres Cogley and he’s shite or whatever. I don’t think we can sign players if we can’t afford the wages - sounds like we struggled to guarantee a loan he game time this week. Well I’d start anyone over Toal today so that conversation may have been made easier.

[GhostoftheBok]

My view on left side is…Williams gets injuries. And I don’t think he has looked fit for a while…not since his layoff. He looks scared of making a challenge since coming back.

And after him it’s Ashworth who is nowhere near good enough or desperation with Iredale who can do the odd game there but no more.

On the right Cogley can be relieved by Jones when he’s back and Jones is better at WB than Iredale is. Williams can also cover the right. And Matheson I think can do a job in certain games especially home ones in an attacking sense. I’d not fancy him away in a tough game but I feel the right side is arguably better balanced than the left.

People will have their view.

The squad design is missing a RWB and I think that's the reality that'll win out.

I don't think Evatt and Markham will sign the same role twice, which they would be doing with Williams + attacking left-sider.

I'm not claiming that's a fact, though. Just my guess at it. Could be wrong.

What's pretty clear is that there's not been the budget increase from "the bond" that many fans envisaged (nor the structural investment, but that's another issue). We'll probably be doing this on the cheap and that severely limits our options. We are nowhere near the financial muscle of Derby, Portsmouth, or even Oxford in this window - at least so goes the footy chatter.

Some "ITK" bods here and at Blackburn are claiming the Ennis deal is off. Again, not a clue if that's correct; but would leave us in bother if it is. Hard to get a decent striker on the cheap.

We won't guarantee a loanee games. We don't have loads to spend. Find yourselves a striker who'll have a serious impact on our promotion chances.

[BWFC_Insane]

My view on left side is…Williams gets injuries. And I don’t think he has looked fit for a while…not since his layoff. He looks scared of making a challenge since coming back.

And after him it’s Ashworth who is nowhere near good enough or desperation with Iredale who can do the odd game there but no more.

On the right Cogley can be relieved by Jones when he’s back and Jones is better at WB than Iredale is. Williams can also cover the right. And Matheson I think can do a job in certain games especially home ones in an attacking sense. I’d not fancy him away in a tough game but I feel the right side is arguably better balanced than the left.

People will have their view.

The squad design is missing a RWB and I think that's the reality that'll win out.

I don't think Evatt and Markham will sign the same role twice, which they would be doing with Williams + attacking left-sider.

I'm not claiming that's a fact, though. Just my guess at it. Could be wrong.

What's pretty clear is that there's not been the budget increase from "the bond" that many fans envisaged (nor the structural investment, but that's another issue). We'll probably be doing this on the cheap and that severely limits our options. We are nowhere near the financial muscle of Derby, Portsmouth, or even Oxford in this window - at least so goes the footy chatter.

Some "ITK" bods here and at Blackburn are claiming the Ennis deal is off. Again, not a clue if that's correct; but would leave us in bother if it is. Hard to get a decent striker on the cheap.

We won't guarantee a loanee games. We don't have loads to spend. Find yourselves a striker who'll have a serious impact on our promotion chances.

The thing is. We have the resources to go up. And should have done more in the summer but absolutely should have gone into January sprinting into the market.

But if we are so financially tight we have to do it on the cheap - and let’s be clear the resources we have dwarf most bar Derby and Pompey in this league but even if we are up to the wall…the fact remains that we should have been resting more key players in competitions that don’t matter.

Stretching ourselves as we have without a way to recruit would be incredibly poor management. You have to do stuff according to the circumstances. We should have been playing some b team types much more in the cups.

[TANGODANCER]

Oh, and the referee?

Wasn't there a rule once against touch line coaching? Indeed, weren't there rules about hands on players? The amount of incidents that previously would have counted as fouls made Sunday pub football look like rounders today: ; Leap-frogging onto players backs, shirt dragging, blatantly running into players backs, stealing multiple yardage at throw-ins etc, etc . I've seen barfights in John Wayne films with less foul-play than this league. Get a grip refs, it's supposed to be football... : Oh, and time-wasting..evil:

[GhostoftheBok]

The thing is. We have the resources to go up. And should have done more in the summer but absolutely should have gone into January sprinting into the market.

But if we are so financially tight we have to do it on the cheap - and let’s be clear the resources we have dwarf most bar Derby and Pompey in this league but even if we are up to the wall…the fact remains that we should have been resting more key players in competitions that don’t matter.

Stretching ourselves as we have without a way to recruit would be incredibly poor management. You have to do stuff according to the circumstances. We should have been playing some b team types much more in the cups.

You're talking about theoretical money.

The money the football department has to spend appears to be nowhere near what you're expecting us to spend.

You can do your own assessment as to what you think the club "could" afford to spend. The reality is we're not offering anywhere near the wages some other clubs are and we're pulling back when told what fees are expected, which other clubs then pay. This has been the case since we came up.

The Cheltenham performance came off the back of resting players against Accy.

Today wasn't about that.

[officer_dibble]

Well, if we haven’t got money this season we’re fecked next year in this league.