Pied and Prejudice, Wigan (A) 27/02/04.

[Mar]

And if anyone can figure out why, after everything good we did running through him (again!) he took Sheehan off for that carthorse while we left three centre halves on the pitch?? Cue an unsurprising 20 mins where we got in good areas, passed back into midfield for...?

I don't understand it either. We're in need of a goal and a reaction and yet he's taking off our most attacking threat (Sheehan) and bringing on Jerome. It's pretty much tantamount to ensuring we stop scoring.

Make subs to improve the side, not to fit a game plan that we're not yet playing (Saturdays game).

Collins should consider himself fortunate not to be brought off today in an embarrassing sub being subbed. Seemed like the right choice bringing him on, but no one would've expected him to perform as badly as he did. Had he not been brought on as sub surely he would've been taken off.

[BWFC_Insane]

And if anyone can figure out why, after everything good we did running through him (again!) he took Sheehan off for that carthorse while we left three centre halves on the pitch?? Cue an unsurprising 20 mins where we got in good areas, passed back into midfield for...?

I don't understand it either. We're in need of a goal and a reaction and yet he's taking off our most attacking threat (Sheehan) and bringing on Jerome. It's pretty much tantamount to ensuring we stop scoring.

Make subs to improve the side, not to fit a game plan that we're not yet playing (Saturdays game).

Collins should consider himself fortunate not to be brought off today in an embarrassing sub being subbed. Seemed like the right choice bringing him on, but no one would've expected him to perform as badly as he did. Had he not been brought on as sub surely he would've been taken off.

Collins and Victor were both atrocious. Vic is an incredibly poor player considering we spent money on him. Offers nothing.

Collins looks like he needs a different role. Another signing who doesn’t fit the system.

[Bertie Wooster]

They had to make up for the reverse fixture, they haven’t, they can all feck off for me. Sell the lot of them.

I honestly don't think that we have any players or members of the coaching staff that I'd lose sleep over them leaving & that includes Evatt. Totally agree with Dibs they can all go for me, but if we don't get promotion Evatt has to go at the end of the season.

Where is the intensity & tempo, all we do is pass sideways & backwards - where is the creativity, individualism to change a game, it's all far to robotic for me, IMO Evatt is a very robotic manager, most of his subs look pre planned. I thought the unnecessary slow, tedious boring as hell sideways & backwards possession & keeping the ball at the back was to tire out the opposition so that we exploit gaps later on, it doesn't it just bores the fans to death.

We are still in a good position, but I doubt that many fans think we can now get top two - play off's at best (and its very unlikely we would win that). Evatt is asking for the fans to stick with him etc. well its time he had a good look at himself & his tactics and gave the fans something to get behind.

Oh and Gethin Jones is an absolute liability as RCB, he's shocking.

[dave the minion]

We are 3rd in the table. Win our game in hand and we go 2nd.

Just saying like...... But yes, let's sack the whole team, and the coaching staff as we're clearly such a disgrace.

Football fans will never cease to amaze me.....

[BWFC_Insane]

We are 3rd in the table. Win our game in hand and we go 2nd.

Just saying like...... But yes, let's sack the whole team, and the coaching staff as we're clearly such a disgrace.

Football fans will never cease to amaze me.....

So you’re confident we are finishing in the top 2?

[HMX]

We are 3rd in the table. Win our game in hand and we go 2nd.

Just saying like...... But yes, let's sack the whole team, and the coaching staff as we're clearly such a disgrace.

Football fans will never cease to amaze me.....

Pissed off humans

[dave the minion]

We are 3rd in the table. Win our game in hand and we go 2nd.

Just saying like...... But yes, let's sack the whole team, and the coaching staff as we're clearly such a disgrace.

Football fans will never cease to amaze me.....

So you’re confident we are finishing in the top 2?

I didn't say that, but to answer your question, I am - a lot less confident than I was a few months ago, but I still think we can do it.

However, the hyperbole on here (and elsewhere) is comical & ridiculous. If we miss out then it will be disappointing, and in some people's eyes, an abject failure. Thats fine. But calling for every player and member of the coaching staff to go is maybe just a little bit extreme don't we think??

[officer_dibble]

Don’t worry! Barnsley away, the magical game in hand, next Tuesday! We’ll have it back in our own hands then

[officer_dibble]

PS
It was a bit extreme yes

[dave the minion]

Ha - and once we've played Barnsley and smashed them off the park (with a goal each from our useless liabilities** Vic, Collins and Geth), we'll be reet......


** would a useless liability actually be pretty good - ie useless at being a liability??

[BWFC_Insane]

We are 3rd in the table. Win our game in hand and we go 2nd.

Just saying like...... But yes, let's sack the whole team, and the coaching staff as we're clearly such a disgrace.

Football fans will never cease to amaze me.....

So you’re confident we are finishing in the top 2?

I didn't say that, but to answer your question, I am - a lot less confident than I was a few months ago, but I still think we can do it.

However, the hyperbole on here (and elsewhere) is comical & ridiculous. If we miss out then it will be disappointing, and in some people's eyes, an abject failure. Thats fine. But calling for every player and member of the coaching staff to go is maybe just a little bit extreme don't we think??

So we should wait for failure and then still not do anything? Fans want a team that does them proud. And the outpouring of anger is completely justified.

Sunderland sacked Lee Johnson when they were third and went up. For me anything short of promotion this season is completely disastrous especially coupled with how poor we are to watch. And the away end last night at least where I was all were bored to tears watching us go sideways and nowhere knowing what was going to come.

All I want is a full blooded team that plays with intensity and drive. Football by numbers has to be successful and right now it’s not.

This squad should imho if managed properly win this league this season. It’s a weak league.

[TANGODANCER]

Speak for your self Insane. Nobody likes to lose, but we haven't got a divine right to be any better than others. Get behind the team when things are bad. Sacking the manager every time we lose a couple of games isn't supporting, it's childish. Get a grip man.

[dave the minion]

Aye, so you've been saying all season Insane......

If its a weak league then we are, sadly, part of that weakness. We've lost points to too many bottom-half teams, I admit that. We've conceded too many goals - especially soft goals, I admit that as well. However, we're still third/potentially second in the league. That tells me that all the other teams are also struggling to dominate in such a weak league....

We've lost 8 this season (so far!). Derby - a place above us - have lost 9. Barnsley - 1 below us - have lost 6, but drawn 3 more than us.

If - big If I know - we win our game in hand on most teams - we'll have the joint most games won, and be perilously close to the mythical 2ppg we're aiming for. We've scored the 2nd most goals.... I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the meeting when we call in 8 or 9 of the players and all the coaching setup to sack them and tell them the stats behind the decision....

The league might be weak (although I would argue that top 6 is anything but - and these are the teams we are keeping company with), but I'd say we're doing pretty OK to be honest.

I do get the frustration, even the anger (even though its OTT), but I do think we need a dose of realism. Evatt is the best manager by far we've had in years. If he's served his dues and we replace him, then who do we replace him with? Criticising the players is every fan's prerogative I guess, but we were all pretty damn pleased with the incomings during the window, so we can't now criticise them or the club for doing that business as if we all knew they were going to be duds.... Again, if they are the shambles people are suggesting, then who would we have got in as alternatives who would have been affordable and available.

I know "Bolton are massive, everywhere we go", but lest us not forget we are a 3rd tier club with a chequered recent history and limited (albeit improving) resources. Do you know what, I think we're doing pretty damn well.........


Your last sentence also intrigues me: there's at least 6 or 7 of our first choice match day squad that you clearly & regularly state are either lazy, liabilities, pub players, bottlers, nada-nada-nada, so how can you also believe it has a god-given right to win the league??

[boltonboris]

I thought we played well.

We won more headers, won more tackles, covered more ground, controlled the ball and limited the home team to 3 dangerous attacks in the entire game. Average is around 22 I believe

You can't do much more than that. Our issue is putting the thing in the net. Toal's header was bread and butter. One of those nights, unfortunately. Plenty of positives though

[boltonboris]

Aye, so you've been saying all season Insane......

If its a weak league then we are, sadly, part of that weakness. We've lost points to too many bottom-half teams, I admit that. We've conceded too many goals - especially soft goals, I admit that as well. However, we're still third/potentially second in the league. That tells me that all the other teams are also struggling to dominate in such a weak league....

We've lost 8 this season (so far!). Derby - a place above us - have lost 9. Barnsley - 1 below us - have lost 6, but drawn 3 more than us.

If - big If I know - we win our game in hand on most teams - we'll have the joint most games won, and be perilously close to the mythical 2ppg we're aiming for. We've scored the 2nd most goals.... I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the meeting when we call in 8 or 9 of the players and all the coaching setup to sack them and tell them the stats behind the decision....

The league might be weak (although I would argue that top 6 is anything but - and these are the teams we are keeping company with), but I'd say we're doing pretty OK to be honest.

I do get the frustration, even the anger (even though its OTT), but I do think we need a dose of realism. Evatt is the best manager by far we've had in years. If he's served his dues and we replace him, then who do we replace him with? Criticising the players is every fan's prerogative I guess, but we were all pretty damn pleased with the incomings during the window, so we can't now criticise them or the club for doing that business as if we all knew they were going to be duds.... Again, if they are the shambles people are suggesting, then who would we have got in as alternatives who would have been affordable and available.

I know "Bolton are massive, everywhere we go", but lest us not forget we are a 3rd tier club with a chequered recent history and limited (albeit improving) resources. Do you know what, I think we're doing pretty damn well.........


Your last sentence also intrigues me: there's at least 6 or 7 of our first choice match day squad that you clearly & regularly state are either lazy, liabilities, pub players, bottlers, nada-nada-nada, so how can you also believe it has a god-given right to win the league??

*Likes

[boltonboris]

So yeah, the long and short of it

Players are shit
Managers shit for only having them joint 2nd

Crazy place, man

[Worthy4England]

There seems to be expectations (after generally messaging how tough this league is to get out of), that there should be some sort of points clear cakewalk going on, rather than ups and downs with nearly a third of the season to play. It's what comes next, rather than what came before that'll define the season from here.

Last season we were one point short of Ipswich at this stage, in 3rd and 4th respectively. We were 4 points less than we have now. We were 6 points off second and 9 off top, having played 1 or 2 games more than the teams in front.

We're 6 points ahead of 2017 on the same games - no one got sacked. We're 2 points adrift of 98 points season...

As Boris said, we played decent, but without cutting edge, yesterday. It wasn't lack of "bottle," it was more minor things like ability to score and ability to not concede. They're pretty important, but I don't see us in the "no chance" bucket at the moment. Need to get behind them rather than sack them.

[BWFC_Insane]

Aye, so you've been saying all season Insane......

If its a weak league then we are, sadly, part of that weakness. We've lost points to too many bottom-half teams, I admit that. We've conceded too many goals - especially soft goals, I admit that as well. However, we're still third/potentially second in the league. That tells me that all the other teams are also struggling to dominate in such a weak league....

We've lost 8 this season (so far!). Derby - a place above us - have lost 9. Barnsley - 1 below us - have lost 6, but drawn 3 more than us.

If - big If I know - we win our game in hand on most teams - we'll have the joint most games won, and be perilously close to the mythical 2ppg we're aiming for. We've scored the 2nd most goals.... I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the meeting when we call in 8 or 9 of the players and all the coaching setup to sack them and tell them the stats behind the decision....

The league might be weak (although I would argue that top 6 is anything but - and these are the teams we are keeping company with), but I'd say we're doing pretty OK to be honest.

I do get the frustration, even the anger (even though its OTT), but I do think we need a dose of realism. Evatt is the best manager by far we've had in years. If he's served his dues and we replace him, then who do we replace him with? Criticising the players is every fan's prerogative I guess, but we were all pretty damn pleased with the incomings during the window, so we can't now criticise them or the club for doing that business as if we all knew they were going to be duds.... Again, if they are the shambles people are suggesting, then who would we have got in as alternatives who would have been affordable and available.

I know "Bolton are massive, everywhere we go", but lest us not forget we are a 3rd tier club with a chequered recent history and limited (albeit improving) resources. Do you know what, I think we're doing pretty damn well.........


Your last sentence also intrigues me: there's at least 6 or 7 of our first choice match day squad that you clearly & regularly state are either lazy, liabilities, pub players, bottlers, nada-nada-nada, so how can you also believe it has a god-given right to win the league??

If Evatt is a half decent manager we will go up this season. We would have last season too. The bottom line is it boils down to end results. He’s been well backed and is managing a huge club in league one.

We messed it up last season. Fine. He’s given another chance and a lot of money to get us up this season. He has to actually deliver and do it.

My issue is the failings in the games we had last season and the season before are unfixed. They repeat themselves over and over and over.

You assert he’s a good manager and we aren’t mentally weak. So why do we lose the same games time and time again?

Pressure is something that good managers and teams use to inspire. We do the opposite.

Parky would promote this lot. So would Allardyce. I think even Megson would.

We need to simplify the games. We’ve got the quality but we don’t know how to use it.

Yes some signings have been poor but when you sign Collin’s after chasing him for a year a player in real demand then say he can’t really contribute for half a season cos it takes him that long to get up to speed…maybe just maybe a good manager who find a way to allow him to make the difference.

My issue with Evatt is that the same failings are happening. And he doesn’t change. And that means that we as a football club suffer. And suffer for what? The same failings over and over? At what point do we say this is enough?

[BWFC_Insane]

There seems to be expectations (after generally messaging how tough this league is to get out of), that there should be some sort of points clear cakewalk going on, rather than ups and downs with nearly a third of the season to play. It's what comes next, rather than what came before that'll define the season from here.

Last season we were one point short of Ipswich at this stage, in 3rd and 4th respectively. We were 4 points less than we have now. We were 6 points off second and 9 off top, having played 1 or 2 games more than the teams in front.

We're 6 points ahead of 2017 on the same games - no one got sacked. We're 2 points adrift of 98 points season...

As Boris said, we played decent, but without cutting edge, yesterday. It wasn't lack of "bottle," it was more minor things like ability to score and ability to not concede. They're pretty important, but I don't see us in the "no chance" bucket at the moment. Need to get behind them rather than sack them.

Where we are points wise right now is arguably a false position given the performances we are putting in and the games we have left. Nobody would be more delighted than me if we get it together and go up but like when Sunderland were in third under Johnson I don’t think anyone really truly has the belief we will do it. And then it’s too late.

I’d be more forgiving if we were changing things to arrest the slide and improve performances but it’s now for me three seasons of the same failings and trying to do the same thing over and over. It breaks down when the crunch games come every single time because we aren’t good enough to play this way under pressure. We don’t have the quality in key areas. You need unbelievable quality to do it. We don’t have it. But we do have more than enough to go up if we weren’t trying to pass teams to death.

[Worthy4England]

Parky had us on less points in 2017 at 34 games, than we currently have. Including a decent amount of Prem experience across the team and a £6m striker.