Pied and Prejudice, Wigan (A) 27/02/04.

[The_Gun]

It's Sunday evening and Tuesday's fixture is very much looming into view. Is this our biggest match of the season thus far? Might it be the biggest of our manager's career? The answer's to these questions depend on how prone you are to hyperbole, but I think we'd all agree that this one feels fairly consequential...

Game Stats, Video and Information

[Jeux sans frontiéres]

Screenshot 2024-02-25 at 21.24.48.png (12.77 KiB) Viewed 1008 times

Nothing to be scared of here. If we weren't next door neighbours we'd be "expecting" to win this one. Midtable, 2 wins from 6.

Jordan Jones a possible injury would be a big loss.

[TANGODANCER]

A great thread title Gun, perfect. Couldn't expect "Sense and Sensibility" in a Wigan encounter. Game wise, we need to forget all that's gone before and do what we do best, just play football. At em..

[Mar]

Screenshot 2024-02-25 at 21.24.48.png

Nothing to be scared of here. If we weren't next door neighbours we'd be "expecting" to win this one. Midtable, 2 wins from 6.

Jordan Jones a possible injury would be a big loss.

We've historically ran into Wigan and thought there's nothing to be scared of and yet we've failed to turn up. I think if we've got anything to worry about it would be which team turns up for this game. When we lost 4-0 against Wigan earlier in the season we failed to turn up against Burton and got a 1-1 draw, reacting badly to the battering from Blackpool might see us head deeper into bad performances.

We owe Wigan a decent game. What better way to do that than after a 4-1 defeat.

I'm expecting us to struggle on Tuesday.

Another bad performance and we'll move on after Tuesday to get our heads together and push for top two.

[officer_dibble]

I think it’s great this game is Tuesday. If you can’t give yourselves a rattle and realise that you now need to turn up in another local derby after that then we might as well know now. We’ve generally found a way to get results this season after bad ones (too many of them) - best fecking win this.

[Bertie Wooster]

I will be shocked if we win this (although I really hope we do), however I just can't see it - our players don't appear to have the right mentality to win games like this & also our style of football doesn't help in these derby games as we don't move the ball quick enough to counter the 'in your face' battling style of Wigan, and we don't get the time on the ball for the likes of Sheehan to influence and dictate play.

I'll settle for a point, but again I can't see that happening.

[BWFC_Insane]

It’s a perfect test really. Must win. Pressure. Local bogey team. Big away crowd.

One would absolutely hope the embarrassment at Blackpool in front of another large away following focussed the minds and we come out and do the job.

It’s a test of character. Match Wigan physically and in running and we will win the game more often than not. But it’s matching them we have to do. There is every incentive to out run, out head and out tackle them.

The pitch won’t be great. We know that. It won’t be a night for fancy stuff. We know that. So no excuse we know the game we need to play to win.

[officer_dibble]

I think Wigan try to play a similar style of football to us Bertie - watch it from behind the sofa!!

[Bertie Wooster]

I think Wigan try to play a similar style of football to us Bertie - watch it from behind the sofa!!

Dibs, I will have to differ - they don't play as slowly as us or pass it sideways & backwards as much and as slowly as we do, they also have several players with fire in their bellies who get stuck in & get in our faces and who understand the importance of these derby games - unfortunately we don't really have players like this and simply play the same way in every game, with the same lack of intensity & tempo in almost every game and we only ever play for 30 mins in every game.

It works in a lot of games against the lower teams, but against the Barnsley's & Wigan's of this world unfortunately as I said (in my opinion), we don't have the players or the style of football to compete and tend to shrink under the pressure. I honestly hope I'm wrong but again IMO in these sort of games we need a few more leaders & players who will give as much back on the pitch.

The Blackpool game summed our players up, I know they had the ref on their side but to me their players looked like they wanted it a bit more, looked more street wise - our players seem to have a soft underbelly are a bit naive at times in regards to game management.

I would love to be proved wrong tomorrow.

[Worthy4England]

If you just take the game against us, I think you'd absolutely come to that conclusion Bertie. It looked a lot more direct, front to back, no fannying around - goal.

Bizarrely on Opta, they take longer over their sequences, use more passes and have a lower direct speed, than us. More 10 pass sequences, slightly lower build-up attacks and fewer direct attacks. So I think it's situational rather than average maybe. Opta has them as the least direct in the Division (us next) and the second most intricate (us third).

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/leagu ... 3-24-opta/

We've scored more, conceded less, won more, lost fewer. Feels to me like there's so far you "trust the process" and the next bit is mentality, balls, cojones, bottle and all the other words "analysts" don't like!

[Mar]

If you just take the game against us, I think you'd absolutely come to that conclusion Bertie. It looked a lot more direct, front to back, no fannying around - goal.

Perhaps this is the key thing we've been missing in derby games. The club has been taking them as just another game rather than getting the players riled up ready for the fight.

Evatt's plan clearly works over the course of the season, stick to the plan and improve periodically, but i'm less sure about its ability against derby matches. If we can't get the players riled up for a derby game and have them match the opposition then we'll struggle. If we're treating it as just another game then we are likely missing something.

We know we'll be pressed hard and fast, we're expecting Bolton to press just as hard and fast. Match them when they up their game and we'll be fine, if they sit off then Sheehan can get the benefits. If they're constantly running and overloading our midfield then we're going to have a rough day.

[BWFC_Insane]

If you just take the game against us, I think you'd absolutely come to that conclusion Bertie. It looked a lot more direct, front to back, no fannying around - goal.

Perhaps this is the key thing we've been missing in derby games. The club has been taking them as just another game rather than getting the players riled up ready for the fight.

Evatt's plan clearly works over the course of the season, stick to the plan and improve periodically, but i'm less sure about its ability against derby matches. If we can't get the players riled up for a derby game and have them match the opposition then we'll struggle. If we're treating it as just another game then we are likely missing something.

We know we'll be pressed hard and fast, we're expecting Bolton to press just as hard and fast. Match them when they up their game and we'll be fine, if they sit off then Sheehan can get the benefits. If they're constantly running and overloading our midfield then we're going to have a rough day.

Its not specifically related to derbies. See the play off semi's last year.

See most of the 'big' games - where we struggle.

Barnsley away is an example where it won't be dissimilar to Wigan away. We have a lot of these big tests coming up.

[Worthy4England]

Iles just posted Dion available...

[officer_dibble]

Dion will be in the squad - I would imagine the bench in favour of Jerome. All the pre match noise from their side is about the battle. If we’re not up for it we won’t win…it’s a fantastic game to have after the weekend. Can really prove a point here. Step up, or feck off.

[The_Gun]

Coleman (sigh)

Forrester Santos Toal

Sheehan

JDC Maghoma Thomason Ogbeta

Charles Collins

[irie Cee Bee]

Hoping for the best but fearing the worst. Evatt will continue to tinker with the side and everything is a lottery. Who will he pick, I have no idea... except for Coleman.

[TANGODANCER]

Coleman (sigh)

Forrester Santos Toal

Sheehan

JDC Maghoma Thomason Ogbeta

Charles Collins

He's only as good as those in front let him be. Can't blame him for poor clearances and ball loss from casual defending. We're going to be under attack from the first whistle and bombarding our box is everybody's game plan in this league. If we send out invitations via defending deep that's what will happen. Be prepared for a clog dancing fest, it's Wigan. Good defending and making the most of chances in never more important. Just hope we get a ref who doesn't live in Hindley or Leigh or somewhere.

[Jeux sans frontiéres]

I not sure I buy the big game bottler tag.

4-0 at Wembley last year. Not forgetting the semi-final before that.

This season we've beaten Derby, Blackpool. Taken Luton to a replay (after they started to turn things around in the league).

And I don't think there's any empirical evidence that the players aren't getting gee'd up for the big games by Evatt either. True enough it seems like they get unsettled in physical battles. But I'm pretty sure we've spent the past few weeks bemoaning George for getting carried away. By contrast, you can say that everyone else is just trying to keep their head under immense pressure.

[BWFC_Insane]

I not sure I buy the big game bottler tag.

4-0 at Wembley last year. Not forgetting the semi-final before that.

This season we've beaten Derby, Blackpool. Taken Luton to a replay (after they started to turn things around in the league).

And I don't think there's any empirical evidence that the players aren't getting gee'd up for the big games by Evatt either. True enough it seems like they get unsettled in physical battles. But I'm pretty sure we've spent the past few weeks bemoaning George for getting carried away. By contrast, you can say that everyone else is just trying to keep their head under immense pressure.

I don’t think a cup final that is at best a distraction from the league is a good measure of this. Cup games by their nature somewhat offer a release of pressure. We definitely wanted that game more than Plymouth and it showed a lot of good things. But then Plymouth had other stuff on their minds too.

And the semi final where I think we did have pressure against local rivals Accrington sort of showed what I mean. Yes we won. But they went down to ten early weren’t very good and we absolutely struggled to play and get going. We missed a few chances too. A better side in a pressure game like that and we may well have actually lost it.

I think our quality sees us through against a lot of this league but we saw Saturday what happens when that doesn’t. We’ve seen it a few times. Big crowds at home you can almost guarantee we will struggle.

I thought we’d got better tbh in that aspect this season but of late it does feel like we are ripe to struggle in a big game with a big crowd.

Run ins are all about handling the pressure best. I also think they often come down to who can simplify their game the most to make results most easily reproducible. If there was something alarming about us I’d pick out it’s that for significant periods of the season you don’t know what sort of a side will turn out. Will it be the side that dug in sans santos to withstand a barrage at port vale? Or the one who crumbled at home to lowly Carlisle? We are for me too unpredictable and that maybe hurts you most in the backend of the season when the sides that can just keep rolling tend to do best.

[TANGODANCER]

So, in short, we just go out, do our best and the rest is Que Sera. As it should be.