Brexit or Britin

[thebish]

hang on... GAME CHANGER!!

[Prufrock]

It's a tightrope to walk to call someone hysterical and for then to quit at once.

Also, 10p?

[bedwetter2]

^^ That's true, too!

And so what about youth unemployment which has been exacerbated by this influx of cheap labour? There are enough problems in this country without self-inflicted ones. Most people know someone who is earning a relative pittance and struggles to afford rent, never mind buying a home. It could even be a member of your family.
Open borders mean that the western EU countries and eastern EU countries have vastly out of sync average incomes which must find a level. Ours will go down whilst theirs will go up as is the nature of finding equilibrium. I hope you are prepared for much worse and for your current standard of living to take a BIG hit if we remain in this exclusive club.

Pfft. Unemployment. Lowest for a decade in January. Dave n George told us...

What I think you're saying in the second para, is as we reach equilibrium, there would be no need for anyone to needlessly move anywhere? Coz there'd be no economic benefit to them? Brilliant. The problem will sort itself out.

Oh yes, no problem at all. Just like when many companies exported jobs to China, Malaysia, India, Vietnam. Equilibrium will take a long time and how much longer will it take to repatriate all those jobs which go east if indeed there is an inclination to do so?

Full employment was always considered to be around 2% unemployment in the UK according to my economics A level. As it is currently around 6% and much higher in parts of the north you appear rather too dismissive about the effects upon 1.8 million of your fellow countrymen.

I am all too certain that you are fully aware of why multi-national businesses are so much in favour of the Remain campaign....it suits them to be able to move operations and production facilities to wherever the lowest cost region/country can be found, never mind other factors such as beneficial taxation in places like Luxembourg where many have taken advantage of Juncker's corrupt tendencies. Almost like Nigeria innit?

[Worthy4England]

^^ That's true, too!

And so what about youth unemployment which has been exacerbated by this influx of cheap labour? There are enough problems in this country without self-inflicted ones. Most people know someone who is earning a relative pittance and struggles to afford rent, never mind buying a home. It could even be a member of your family.
Open borders mean that the western EU countries and eastern EU countries have vastly out of sync average incomes which must find a level. Ours will go down whilst theirs will go up as is the nature of finding equilibrium. I hope you are prepared for much worse and for your current standard of living to take a BIG hit if we remain in this exclusive club.

Pfft. Unemployment. Lowest for a decade in January. Dave n George told us...

What I think you're saying in the second para, is as we reach equilibrium, there would be no need for anyone to needlessly move anywhere? Coz there'd be no economic benefit to them? Brilliant. The problem will sort itself out.

Oh yes, no problem at all. Just like when many companies exported jobs to China, Malaysia, India, Vietnam. Equilibrium will take a long time and how much longer will it take to repatriate all those jobs which go east if indeed there is an inclination to do so?

Full employment was always considered to be around 2% unemployment in the UK according to my economics A level. As it is currently around 6% and much higher in parts of the north you appear rather too dismissive about the effects upon 1.8 million of your fellow countrymen.

I am all too certain that you are fully aware of why multi-national businesses are so much in favour of the Remain campaign....it suits them to be able to move operations and production facilities to wherever the lowest cost region/country can be found, never mind other factors such as beneficial taxation in places like Luxembourg where many have taken advantage of Juncker's corrupt tendencies. Almost like Nigeria innit?

The point I'm making is that whilst you present the paper from Capital Economics as a broadly "no consequence" move on exit, at a macro-economic level - maybe a little up and maybe a little down, that ignores the same underlying shifts that seem to be important to you during this discourse.

So yes, I'm being flippant. The CE report, pointed to (for example) a loss of passporting rights in FS potentially halving the sector from £19Bn - £10Bn...That was brushed off by yourself (with your A level economics ) as being part of a "hill of beans" - how many of your fellow countrymen will be affected by that?

There clearly isn't an easy (or necessarily right/wrong) answer and upsides/downsides to everything.

[bedwetter2]

^^ That's true, too!

And so what about youth unemployment which has been exacerbated by this influx of cheap labour? There are enough problems in this country without self-inflicted ones. Most people know someone who is earning a relative pittance and struggles to afford rent, never mind buying a home. It could even be a member of your family.
Open borders mean that the western EU countries and eastern EU countries have vastly out of sync average incomes which must find a level. Ours will go down whilst theirs will go up as is the nature of finding equilibrium. I hope you are prepared for much worse and for your current standard of living to take a BIG hit if we remain in this exclusive club.

Pfft. Unemployment. Lowest for a decade in January. Dave n George told us...

What I think you're saying in the second para, is as we reach equilibrium, there would be no need for anyone to needlessly move anywhere? Coz there'd be no economic benefit to them? Brilliant. The problem will sort itself out.

Oh yes, no problem at all. Just like when many companies exported jobs to China, Malaysia, India, Vietnam. Equilibrium will take a long time and how much longer will it take to repatriate all those jobs which go east if indeed there is an inclination to do so?

Full employment was always considered to be around 2% unemployment in the UK according to my economics A level. As it is currently around 6% and much higher in parts of the north you appear rather too dismissive about the effects upon 1.8 million of your fellow countrymen.

I am all too certain that you are fully aware of why multi-national businesses are so much in favour of the Remain campaign....it suits them to be able to move operations and production facilities to wherever the lowest cost region/country can be found, never mind other factors such as beneficial taxation in places like Luxembourg where many have taken advantage of Juncker's corrupt tendencies. Almost like Nigeria innit?

The point I'm making is that whilst you present the paper from Capital Economics as a broadly "no consequence" move on exit, at a macro-economic level - maybe a little up and maybe a little down, that ignores the same underlying shifts that seem to be important to you during this discourse.

So yes, I'm being flippant. The CE report, pointed to (for example) a loss of passporting rights in FS potentially halving the sector from £19Bn - £10Bn...That was brushed off by yourself (with your A level economics ) as being part of a "hill of beans" - how many of your fellow countrymen will be affected by that?

There clearly isn't an easy (or necessarily right/wrong) answer and upsides/downsides to everything.

I didn't realise you were being flippant

What a long memory you have, Grandma! The paper from CE has subsequently been backed up by others which certainly stand up to more scrutiny than Gideon's effort (not so much a forecast, more like the word of God). Of course no one really knows with any degree of certainty what short, medium and long term effects there will be, whether beneficial or otherwise. Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

Unlike others, I am not so much obsessed with the economic argument. The corrupt and undemocratic nature of the EU, the current and future subservience of the UK (loss of sovereignty) and the issues around our inability to control our own legal system or borders without recourse to EU institutions concern me just as much.

Do you remember Dave coming back from Brussels with his equivalent of the"peace in our time" letter. According to him, he had reformed the EU after many hard fought arguments. He doesn't mention that much now does he?

[Worthy4England]

I didn't realise you were being flippant

What a long memory you have, Grandma! The paper from CE has subsequently been backed up by others which certainly stand up to more scrutiny than Gideon's effort (not so much a forecast, more like the word of God). Of course no one really knows with any degree of certainty what short, medium and long term effects there will be, whether beneficial or otherwise. Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

Unlike others, I am not so much obsessed with the economic argument. The corrupt and undemocratic nature of the EU, the current and future subservience of the UK (loss of sovereignty) and the issues around our inability to control our own legal system or borders without recourse to EU institutions concern me just as much.

Do you remember Dave coming back from Brussels with his equivalent of the"peace in our time" letter. According to him, he had reformed the EU after many hard fought arguments. He doesn't mention that much now does he?

He doesn't, but then again the political arguments are less of a problem for me, much as it was trumpeted in the press, there wasn't anything he was actually going to talk about that would have made an 'a'porth of difference - though I would agree "remain" put much stock in it, because Rupert Murdoch told them to. If you're talking corruption, then our very own expenses scandal didn't actually suggest anything other than our own system was fundamentally broke. You don't have to go back that far to find gerrymandering in Westminster, Reports on WMD's etc. Of course two broke things added together don't = a mended one.

The point about big businesses being able to move to beneficial taxation locations - either everyone in Europe (and globally) has a big push on that or they don't. UK, in or out of the EU ain't going to make a unilateral change damaging to our economy and to the benefit of another. I don't know if that's what you're suggesting we do? Nowt to do with Europe particularly.

Clearly Osborne and Cameron's reports show an "in favour of remaining" view. They've openly said they're in favour of "Remain". Roger Bootle (Capital Economics), most of UKIP's reporting, Patrick Minford etc. are hardly independent either - they've been in the "out" camp for donkey's years. So it would only be right to read those reports on the basis that they're written by someone who knows the answer they're looking to get to (no different than Cameron and Osborne).

[thebish]

Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

aye... he says we should stay in.

[bedwetter2]

Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

aye... he says we should stay in.

We've only got you're word for that though. If only you could proffer some incontrovertible evidence. Call me doubting John if you like.

[bedwetter2]

I didn't realise you were being flippant

What a long memory you have, Grandma! The paper from CE has subsequently been backed up by others which certainly stand up to more scrutiny than Gideon's effort (not so much a forecast, more like the word of God). Of course no one really knows with any degree of certainty what short, medium and long term effects there will be, whether beneficial or otherwise. Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

Unlike others, I am not so much obsessed with the economic argument. The corrupt and undemocratic nature of the EU, the current and future subservience of the UK (loss of sovereignty) and the issues around our inability to control our own legal system or borders without recourse to EU institutions concern me just as much.

Do you remember Dave coming back from Brussels with his equivalent of the"peace in our time" letter. According to him, he had reformed the EU after many hard fought arguments. He doesn't mention that much now does he?

He doesn't, but then again the political arguments are less of a problem for me, much as it was trumpeted in the press, there wasn't anything he was actually going to talk about that would have made an 'a'porth of difference - though I would agree "remain" put much stock in it, because Rupert Murdoch told them to. If you're talking corruption, then our very own expenses scandal didn't actually suggest anything other than our own system was fundamentally broke. You don't have to go back that far to find gerrymandering in Westminster, Reports on WMD's etc. Of course two broke things added together don't = a mended one.

The point about big businesses being able to move to beneficial taxation locations - either everyone in Europe (and globally) has a big push on that or they don't. UK, in or out of the EU ain't going to make a unilateral change damaging to our economy and to the benefit of another. I don't know if that's what you're suggesting we do? Nowt to do with Europe particularly.

Clearly Osborne and Cameron's reports show an "in favour of remaining" view. They've openly said they're in favour of "Remain". Roger Bootle (Capital Economics), most of UKIP's reporting, Patrick Minford etc. are hardly independent either - they've been in the "out" camp for donkey's years. So it would only be right to read those reports on the basis that they're written by someone who knows the answer they're looking to get to (no different than Cameron and Osborne).

No matter how you try to spin it, politicos in Westminster are pretty small fry in the corruption stakes compared to the EU which manages to mislay €5 to €6bn per year, every year.

Dave and Gideon, or Gida as I like to see the double act have been far more blatent with their spin/untruths bollocks than the other side. The never ending cast of villains they have recruited into their "project fear" enterprise is really sickening; the sight of the Bilderburgs cosying up to each other is showing the world the shameless ways in which democracy is readily subverted. The less gullible are laughing at the whole charade.

[Harry Genshaw]

Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

aye... he says we should stay in.

Of course he does. Like the pm he knows if we come out, war will break out in Europe again!

[Prufrock]

Actual human beings are saying things like "the Bilderburgs" in all f*cking seriousness. This is golden.

[thebish]

Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

aye... he says we should stay in.

We've only got you're word for that though. If only you could proffer some incontrovertible evidence. Call me doubting John if you like.

well - we have your word that I have the hotline...

[bedwetter2]

Actual human beings are saying things like "the Bilderburgs" in all f*cking seriousness. This is golden.

It's not golden, it's very dark sonny. Ok, you may object to the collective noun.....should we instead use the term "the Cogniscenti", or howabout the "Wankers".

[bedwetter2]

Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

aye... he says we should stay in.

We've only got you're word for that though. If only you could proffer some incontrovertible evidence. Call me doubting John if you like.

well - we have your word that I have the hotline...

Haven't you? Shouldn't you be just a little bit disappointed if you don't?

[Prufrock]

Actual human beings are saying things like "the Bilderburgs" in all f*cking seriousness. This is golden.

It's not golden, it's very dark sonny. Ok, you may object to the collective noun.....should we instead use the term "the Cogniscenti", or howabout the "Wankers".

Brilliant. It'll be fine. The Byker Move from Mars are nipping to Mordor to destroy the last, magical copy of the chronicles of the elders of Zion so it'll be reet.

Loving the leavers falling apart. 20 years they've been waiting for this. Presumably they've got something big, something convincing. Well today they unveiled, "it's not about the economy, it's sovereignty". Outstanding.

[bedwetter2]

Actual human beings are saying things like "the Bilderburgs" in all f*cking seriousness. This is golden.

It's not golden, it's very dark sonny. Ok, you may object to the collective noun.....should we instead use the term "the Cogniscenti", or howabout the "Wankers".

Brilliant. It'll be fine. The Byker Move from Mars are nipping to Mordor to destroy the last, magical copy of the chronicles of the elders of Zion so it'll be reet.

Loving the leavers falling apart. 20 years they've been waiting for this. Presumably they've got something big, something convincing. Well today they unveiled, "it's not about the economy, it's sovereignty". Outstanding.

Sorry, did you say Byker Grove moved from Mars? It's all beginning to make sense now. But surely Mordor is a mythical place rather like the brain of John Major.

Anyway, it's about everything, not just the inside of Gida's head. Do you really think the leavers are coming apart? Doesn't seem that the electorate are taking much notice of the Wankers.

[Worthy4England]

I didn't realise you were being flippant

What a long memory you have, Grandma! The paper from CE has subsequently been backed up by others which certainly stand up to more scrutiny than Gideon's effort (not so much a forecast, more like the word of God). Of course no one really knows with any degree of certainty what short, medium and long term effects there will be, whether beneficial or otherwise. Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

Unlike others, I am not so much obsessed with the economic argument. The corrupt and undemocratic nature of the EU, the current and future subservience of the UK (loss of sovereignty) and the issues around our inability to control our own legal system or borders without recourse to EU institutions concern me just as much.

Do you remember Dave coming back from Brussels with his equivalent of the"peace in our time" letter. According to him, he had reformed the EU after many hard fought arguments. He doesn't mention that much now does he?

He doesn't, but then again the political arguments are less of a problem for me, much as it was trumpeted in the press, there wasn't anything he was actually going to talk about that would have made an 'a'porth of difference - though I would agree "remain" put much stock in it, because Rupert Murdoch told them to. If you're talking corruption, then our very own expenses scandal didn't actually suggest anything other than our own system was fundamentally broke. You don't have to go back that far to find gerrymandering in Westminster, Reports on WMD's etc. Of course two broke things added together don't = a mended one.

The point about big businesses being able to move to beneficial taxation locations - either everyone in Europe (and globally) has a big push on that or they don't. UK, in or out of the EU ain't going to make a unilateral change damaging to our economy and to the benefit of another. I don't know if that's what you're suggesting we do? Nowt to do with Europe particularly.

Clearly Osborne and Cameron's reports show an "in favour of remaining" view. They've openly said they're in favour of "Remain". Roger Bootle (Capital Economics), most of UKIP's reporting, Patrick Minford etc. are hardly independent either - they've been in the "out" camp for donkey's years. So it would only be right to read those reports on the basis that they're written by someone who knows the answer they're looking to get to (no different than Cameron and Osborne).

No matter how you try to spin it, politicos in Westminster are pretty small fry in the corruption stakes compared to the EU which manages to mislay €5 to €6bn per year, every year.

Dave and Gideon, or Gida as I like to see the double act have been far more blatent with their spin/untruths bollocks than the other side. The never ending cast of villains they have recruited into their "project fear" enterprise is really sickening; the sight of the Bilderburgs cosying up to each other is showing the world the shameless ways in which democracy is readily subverted. The less gullible are laughing at the whole charade.

Let me finish laughing. Banana straightness, anyone? The outers have been at Project Fear for 30 years, despite the fact we can leave any time our elected representatives decide it's untenable. Now they're skrike arsing about Remain emplying the sane tactics. Unbelievable Jeff.

[bedwetter2]

I didn't realise you were being flippant

What a long memory you have, Grandma! The paper from CE has subsequently been backed up by others which certainly stand up to more scrutiny than Gideon's effort (not so much a forecast, more like the word of God). Of course no one really knows with any degree of certainty what short, medium and long term effects there will be, whether beneficial or otherwise. Apart from the Bish, of course. He has a hotline to the man who can tell us.

Unlike others, I am not so much obsessed with the economic argument. The corrupt and undemocratic nature of the EU, the current and future subservience of the UK (loss of sovereignty) and the issues around our inability to control our own legal system or borders without recourse to EU institutions concern me just as much.

Do you remember Dave coming back from Brussels with his equivalent of the"peace in our time" letter. According to him, he had reformed the EU after many hard fought arguments. He doesn't mention that much now does he?

He doesn't, but then again the political arguments are less of a problem for me, much as it was trumpeted in the press, there wasn't anything he was actually going to talk about that would have made an 'a'porth of difference - though I would agree "remain" put much stock in it, because Rupert Murdoch told them to. If you're talking corruption, then our very own expenses scandal didn't actually suggest anything other than our own system was fundamentally broke. You don't have to go back that far to find gerrymandering in Westminster, Reports on WMD's etc. Of course two broke things added together don't = a mended one.

The point about big businesses being able to move to beneficial taxation locations - either everyone in Europe (and globally) has a big push on that or they don't. UK, in or out of the EU ain't going to make a unilateral change damaging to our economy and to the benefit of another. I don't know if that's what you're suggesting we do? Nowt to do with Europe particularly.

Clearly Osborne and Cameron's reports show an "in favour of remaining" view. They've openly said they're in favour of "Remain". Roger Bootle (Capital Economics), most of UKIP's reporting, Patrick Minford etc. are hardly independent either - they've been in the "out" camp for donkey's years. So it would only be right to read those reports on the basis that they're written by someone who knows the answer they're looking to get to (no different than Cameron and Osborne).

No matter how you try to spin it, politicos in Westminster are pretty small fry in the corruption stakes compared to the EU which manages to mislay €5 to €6bn per year, every year.

Dave and Gideon, or Gida as I like to see the double act have been far more blatent with their spin/untruths bollocks than the other side. The never ending cast of villains they have recruited into their "project fear" enterprise is really sickening; the sight of the Bilderburgs cosying up to each other is showing the world the shameless ways in which democracy is readily subverted. The less gullible are laughing at the whole charade.

Let me finish laughing. Banana straightness, anyone? The outers have been at Project Fear for 30 years, despite the fact we can leave any time our elected representatives decide it's untenable. Now they're skrike arsing about Remain emplying the sane tactics. Unbelievable Jeff.

You'll be laughing on the other side of your face once the Byker Grovers have finished with Mordor. And who is skriking about emplying? Is it Jeff? I lost track of your point time ago. Project Fear been going for 30 years? Stretching it a bit there to describe Bill Cash as such but it seems you and the rest of the Remains (doesn't that sound like a skeleton dug up in the woods?) are partial to a bit of hyperbole yourselves. You can stick your straight bananas right up Gida's fundament.

[thebish]

..b..b...b...but our KETTLES!!!!

[Rjs37]

..b..b...b...but our KETTLES!!!!

I guess this would at least help with our national power consumption during ad breaks.