Brexit or Britin

[TANGODANCER]

^^ Do you really believe either side are doing themselves much good right now, Hobes? Their campaigns have got all the appearance and impact of a junior school snowball fight.

[Hoboh]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-76056397" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder just how much the remain camp will push this?

A German issuing threats to the Brits.



On a side note it surely points out just how much control some Germans think they wield in the EU by making a unilateral decision that no members will trade with us.

We are not the Greeks Wolfgang Schäuble and you'd be smart to realise this.

Bad 24hrs for Remain methinks.

[Rjs37]

Didn't see the debate but only things I've seen on facebook and heard from a couple of people who watched it was that "out" were embarrassing and that Sturgeon stole the show?

I guess it is going to depend on your point of view, as ever....

It was the complete opposite in truth. Sturgeon was certainly the strongest from the remain team but the other two were horrific. One was utterly clueless and the other came across as way too aggressive. As Hobo said, the out team were actually co-ordinated, working together and you could even see them during the debate occasionally discussing how to respond whilst the other side were talking.

Obviously both sides have been massively guilty of scaremongering throughout the length of the campaign. Whereas during the debate last night, the out team were sticking primarily to positive campaigning, i.e. pushing the extra money we'd have, taking back control etc. And the remain team were going mainly for the negative campaigning.

Take that all with a pinch of salt as I'm biased towards Brexit (we're all biased to some degree) but yeah.

[Hoboh]

^^ Do you really believe either side are doing themselves much good right now, Hobes? Their campaigns have got all the appearance and impact of a junior school snowball fight.

I actually think most who will use their vote have made their minds up already and all this campaigning is making for a jolly little, entertaining sideshow until the football starts.

Mind if the Germans are going to start sticking their nose in, it will get interesting.

[Bijou Bob]

Apparently, just over 480,000 voters registered to vote during the registration extension period. I'm unconvinced that the 'In' camp should be happy about this, I suspect the decision to extend may well come back to bite them.

[Worthy4England]

Didn't see the debate but only things I've seen on facebook and heard from a couple of people who watched it was that "out" were embarrassing and that Sturgeon stole the show?

I guess it is going to depend on your point of view, as ever....

It was the complete opposite in truth. Sturgeon was certainly the strongest from the remain team but the other two were horrific. One was utterly clueless and the other came across as way too aggressive. As Hobo said, the out team were actually co-ordinated, working together and you could even see them during the debate occasionally discussing how to respond whilst the other side were talking.

Obviously both sides have been massively guilty of scaremongering throughout the length of the campaign. Whereas during the debate last night, the out team were sticking primarily to positive campaigning, i.e. pushing the extra money we'd have, taking back control etc. And the remain team were going mainly for the negative campaigning.

Take that all with a pinch of salt as I'm biased towards Brexit (we're all biased to some degree) but yeah.

As a "remainer", I thought they were both pretty negative to be honest (and I did watch it), I thought Boris was all soundbites and lies (and didn't come across very well), I thought Gisela Stuart and Andrea Leadsom came across more measured and credibly, although when Andrea Leadsom pointed out that no one in the UK could name the EU leadership, I'd suggest that they wouldn't be able to name the MP for South Northamptonshire either.

For remain, I thought Angela Eagles was a bit bumbling. Amber Rudd was there to have a fight with Boris and Sturgeon came across best out of the three.

All 6 were found wanting at one point or another.

[Worthy4England]

Apparently, just over 480,000 voters registered to vote during the registration extension period. I'm unconvinced that the 'In' camp should be happy about this, I suspect the decision to extend may well come back to bite them.

Not sure it's a case of happy or not. If they're entitled to vote, irregardless of which way, then it was the right decision to give them that opportunity...

[Hoboh]

Apparently, just over 480,000 voters registered to vote during the registration extension period. I'm unconvinced that the 'In' camp should be happy about this, I suspect the decision to extend may well come back to bite them.

Not sure it's a case of happy or not. If they're entitled to vote, irregardless of which way, then it was the right decision to give them that opportunity...

Actually, although I vaguely agree with you, should they not have been given the 2 hour slot that went missing?

[Hoboh]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ock-market" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Friggin' Nora! Experts again

An early exit of the England team from Euro 2016 would wipe £6bn off the stock market in a single day, according to a finance expert.

One of the remain camps no doubt

[Worthy4England]

I'm not sure the general public follow any sort of logic when it comes to politics. If they did, the pollsters might get it right once in a while.

The last couple of by elections held, Oldham in particular, there was talk of a large swing from Labour to UKIP. It wasn't large enough to win UKIP a seat. UKIP's future isn't exactly clear either. Logic would suggest that whichever way the vote goes, the party and it's aims are largely redundant after 23rd June.

I agree there's not much logic, but it's still a big move from centre left - assuming the further left Labour loonies were broadly aligned with Corbyn - to right of the Tories. (Not using "far right" deliberately) but UKIP are further right than the Tories methinks...

Bob is right, a lot of typical Labours supporters are leaning or leaving for UKIP.

To see this you need to look at the last couple of local elections rather than a general one.

Take an example of the Kearsley ward in Bolton, not many (if any) migration related problems, always staunchly Labour with the odd Lib Dem thrown in (mainly, so I'm told. because they were locals and worked their socks off for the ward), Tories a token party.

So according to your way of reckoning there is no way they should have just elected a 'further to the right than the Tories', UKIP councillor then, right?

Wrong.

If the vote goes with remain then I'd expect UKIP to grow massively at the expense of either major party being able to carry large majority's (if at all) in future.

I'm glad you think Bob is right...

There's been plenty of odd balls in mid term elections, it's also not necessarily reflective of what would happen in a General Election. Aside from which, you're talking complete tosh as you usually do.

Looking at the results that Kearsley has been involved in:

Council Election 2012 - Lab Vote 1475, UKIP 0 (no candidate) but serves as a reference point
Council Election 2014 - Lab Vote 1139, UKIP 1096 - biggest losers were the Lib Dems who lost 600 votes
Council Election 2015 - Lab Vote 2331, UKIP 1953 - This was actually a swing away from UKIP to Conservative...
Council Election 2016 - Lab Vote 1248, UKIP 1480 - The councillors are up for election on rotation so you should probably compare this to 2012 - decrease in Labour of 227 on an increased 12% turnout. So yes swing away from Labour of 227, but not all of those necessarily voted UKIP as the turnout was up 12%...

Then when you look at the General Election ward Kearsley is in, there was a 3% increase in the Labour vote in 2015 v 2010. Biggest losers were Tory and Lib Dem...

Don't think the figures support your contention. Then again that doesn't surprise me, they usually don't...

[Worthy4England]

Apparently, just over 480,000 voters registered to vote during the registration extension period. I'm unconvinced that the 'In' camp should be happy about this, I suspect the decision to extend may well come back to bite them.

Not sure it's a case of happy or not. If they're entitled to vote, irregardless of which way, then it was the right decision to give them that opportunity...

Actually, although I vaguely agree with you, should they not have been given the 2 hour slot that went missing?

If we're being picky, they probably shouldn't have all waited until the last fcking minute - so part of me says "tough shit"...but then again, it should be that the infra is flexible enough to accommodate last minute surges...

The numbers of people who registered in the last couple of days was huge.

[Bijou Bob]

Apparently, just over 480,000 voters registered to vote during the registration extension period. I'm unconvinced that the 'In' camp should be happy about this, I suspect the decision to extend may well come back to bite them.

Not sure it's a case of happy or not. If they're entitled to vote, irregardless of which way, then it was the right decision to give them that opportunity...

That wasn't actually my point. The suggestion has been made that the majority of those trying to register were Remain supporters, which is allegedly why there was a dash to ensure the legislation was passed to enable them to do so after the initial deadline. Im really not sure that is in fact the case as 'Out' had a good few days earlierc this week.

Everyone entitled to vote should have the opportunity, though Feck knows why so many left it so late.

[Harry Genshaw]

I missed the itv debate but caught question time. Chris Grayling(leave) & Hillary Benn (stay) both impressed me. Farage, for all the stick he gets and attempts to cast him as a racist is a very skilled orator imo. I was leaning towards 'IN' but I'm back at 'OUT' today.

Anyone could do what Farage does,...

Oh aye. History is littered with individuals that single handedly developed a political party from nothing to a major player. You might not like him or ukip but would we be even having a vote if it wasn't for Farage?

[Rjs37]

although when Andrea Leadsom pointed out that no one in the UK could name the EU leadership, I'd suggest that they wouldn't be able to name the MP for South Northamptonshire either.

Yes but a lot of decisions affecting our country aren't being made by the MP for South Northamptonshire.

There's a lot of ignorance (especially on my behalf) from the people in the UK about the EU leadership, who they are, how they're elected, how long they're elected for, how decisions are made etc. Surely there'd be less anger towards the EU if more was known by the public. More visibility and more accountability. If the UK knew who were proposing and making the decisions that they didn't agree with, then they'd be a step closer to being able to do something about it.

[Worthy4England]

although when Andrea Leadsom pointed out that no one in the UK could name the EU leadership, I'd suggest that they wouldn't be able to name the MP for South Northamptonshire either.

Yes but a lot of decisions affecting our country aren't being made by the MP for South Northamptonshire.

There's a lot of ignorance (especially on my behalf) from the people in the UK about the EU leadership, who they are, how they're elected, how long they're elected for, how decisions are made etc. Surely there'd be less anger towards the EU if more was known by the public. More visibility and more accountability. If the UK knew who were proposing and making the decisions that they didn't agree with, then they'd be a step closer to being able to do something about it.

I'm all for that - I reckon more than 50% of the electorate wouldn't be able to name either the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Justice Minister...I'd be very surprised if many could name the Lord Chancellor...How many would get the Secretary of State for Defence? Or International Development....

This notion that the electorate are somehow that close to the people who make decisions in the UK, is absolute bollocks.

[Bijou Bob]

During the Blair government years, it did seem like politicians were much closer to the general populace, or perhaps I just have rose coloured specs on. I got to meet and speak with a good number of the cabinet at the time who were keen on getting out there and understanding what was happening outside of Westminster and their pied-a-terres in Islington. Given that the Tories are flogging devolution to death, it's possibly no suprise they've pulled up the drawbridge and don't venture out much.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Those Nobel Laureates want in. Not to mention others in the research and development area. Of course their concerns are a myth.

[BWFC_Insane]

I missed the itv debate but caught question time. Chris Grayling(leave) & Hillary Benn (stay) both impressed me. Farage, for all the stick he gets and attempts to cast him as a racist is a very skilled orator imo. I was leaning towards 'IN' but I'm back at 'OUT' today.

Anyone could do what Farage does,...

Oh aye. History is littered with individuals that single handedly developed a political party from nothing to a major player. You might not like him or ukip but would we be even having a vote if it wasn't for Farage?

It's lowest common denominator politics. The idea that he's any great visionary is absolutely nonsense.

Also UKIP aren't a major player anymore than the Greens or the Ulster unionists are...

[Harry Genshaw]

I missed the itv debate but caught question time. Chris Grayling(leave) & Hillary Benn (stay) both impressed me. Farage, for all the stick he gets and attempts to cast him as a racist is a very skilled orator imo. I was leaning towards 'IN' but I'm back at 'OUT' today.

Anyone could do what Farage does,...

Oh aye. History is littered with individuals that single handedly developed a political party from nothing to a major player. You might not like him or ukip but would we be even having a vote if it wasn't for Farage?

It's lowest common denominator politics. The idea that he's any great visionary is absolutely nonsense.

Also UKIP aren't a major player anymore than the Greens or the Ulster unionists are...

I wouldn't describe him as a great visionary but what he's achieved is remarkable. It wasn't the Greens or the Unionists that brought Cameron round to offering a referendum

[BWFC_Insane]

I missed the itv debate but caught question time. Chris Grayling(leave) & Hillary Benn (stay) both impressed me. Farage, for all the stick he gets and attempts to cast him as a racist is a very skilled orator imo. I was leaning towards 'IN' but I'm back at 'OUT' today.

Anyone could do what Farage does,...

Oh aye. History is littered with individuals that single handedly developed a political party from nothing to a major player. You might not like him or ukip but would we be even having a vote if it wasn't for Farage?

It's lowest common denominator politics. The idea that he's any great visionary is absolutely nonsense.

Also UKIP aren't a major player anymore than the Greens or the Ulster unionists are...

I wouldn't describe him as a great visionary but what he's achieved is remarkable. It wasn't the Greens or the Unionists that brought Cameron round to offering a referendum

Neither was it UKIP, it was backbench Tories constantly demanding it.....