Brexit or Britin

[thebish]

We shouldn't be in a position where the Government that's in power can say "we've not taken VAT of fuel, we never made that promise"...

should we vote "out" the tories will still be in power - though it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to see an election called fairly soon (if that's possible under the new fixed term parliament - I guess it must be!)

THEN - I'd expect parties to put forward manifestos based on the new out-of-europe landscape and I don't think I'd want Gove and Boris in charge of negotiating trade treaties across Europe and beyond - even if it did make them in some vague sense "accountable"...

[Rjs37]

We shouldn't be in a position where the Government that's in power can say "we've not taken VAT of fuel, we never made that promise"...

They're politicians, they'd do that regardless of whether they actually made that promise or not. Or they'd say we'll do it in 5 years time, and then not do it in the end.

To answer your other post, I think the government have put themselves in a bad situation to be honest (if Brexit happens which I doubt anyway). As you know, the people making claims and stabs in the dark at what they would 'like' to happen following Brexit aren't going to be the ones even making the decisions. I feel like the government or at least the PM should've remained unbiased, so they could stipulate what they would do in either situation.

There's no point Brexiters making claims that they want to make Bi-lateral trade agreements with Europe if Cameron fully intends on making us stay within the common market through the EEA. We just don't know what Cameron and Osborne would want to do. We could actually give ourselves more than two years by not giving notice straight-away, but that's one thing Cameron has strangely ruled out.

[Worthy4England]

So we should ignore anything Brexit says, as they can't actually deliver on it?

That's just a bizarre notion...

[thebish]

So we should ignore anything Brexit says, as they can't actually deliver on it?

That's just a bizarre notion...

I'm not sure what the alternative is - MAKE farage prime minister without an election to hold him to his promises? Make Cameron give Gisela Stuart a place in his cabinet so she can be accountable?

(and - YES - we should ignore anything Brexit says!)

[Rjs37]

So we should ignore anything Brexit says, as they can't actually deliver on it?

That's just a bizarre notion...

It's a bizarre situation, but no I'm not saying that. There are so many unknowns in the case of Brexit that it could go several different directions. What would Cameron want to do? Would EU even be willing to talk? Would they make an example out of us? And as Bish said, what really is the alternative?

Politicians should be held to the claims they're making but they're not in a position to know exactly what WILL happen. They can paint a picture of what they want to see happen, and anyone is entitled to do that.

(Also can we just ignore anything any politician says? I think that's better general advice!)

[Worthy4England]

So we should ignore anything Brexit says, as they can't actually deliver on it?

That's just a bizarre notion...

It's a bizarre situation, but no I'm not saying that. There are so many unknowns in the case of Brexit that it could go several different directions. What would Cameron want to do? Would EU even be willing to talk? Would they make an example out of us? And as Bish said, what really is the alternative?

Politicians should be held to the claims they're making but they're not in a position to know exactly what WILL happen. They can paint a picture of what they want to see happen, and anyone is entitled to do that.

Also can we just ignore anything any politician says? I think that's better general advice!

The point is, Brexit are saying the EU wouldn't ignore us, wouldn't make an example of us and we'll get a really good deal. We can't have Cameron saying "I told you that wouldn't happen" should that situation transpire. It has to fall on the head of someone who made the promise that the electorate believed...

[thebish]

So we should ignore anything Brexit says, as they can't actually deliver on it?

That's just a bizarre notion...

It's a bizarre situation, but no I'm not saying that. There are so many unknowns in the case of Brexit that it could go several different directions. What would Cameron want to do? Would EU even be willing to talk? Would they make an example out of us? And as Bish said, what really is the alternative?

Politicians should be held to the claims they're making but they're not in a position to know exactly what WILL happen. They can paint a picture of what they want to see happen, and anyone is entitled to do that.

Also can we just ignore anything any politician says? I think that's better general advice!

The point is, Brexit are saying the EU wouldn't ignore us, wouldn't make an example of us and we'll get a really good deal. We can't have Cameron saying "I told you that wouldn't happen" should that situation transpire. It has to fall on the head of someone who made the promise that the electorate believed...

how does that happen though? say - if cameron stayed on - he has another 4yrs (technically)

[Worthy4England]

We elected a political party, not a Prime Minister. There are plenty of people within that political party that are in Brexit - 120ish at least. More than enough to form a government.

[thebish]

We elected a political party, not a Prime Minister. There are plenty of people within that political party that are in Brexit - 120ish at least. More than enough to form a government.

aye - but a reshifting in the balance of power within that party is nothing we (the electorate) can demand or do anything about...

I doubt they'd get away with changing the PM and the chancellor just a year into a 5yr term without triggering a general election...

[Bruce Rioja]

Gove and Boris in charge

Not even in jest, mate.

[Worthy4England]

We elected a political party, not a Prime Minister. There are plenty of people within that political party that are in Brexit - 120ish at least. More than enough to form a government.

aye - but a reshifting in the balance of power within that party is nothing we (the electorate) can demand or do anything about...

I doubt they'd get away with changing the PM and the chancellor just a year into a 5yr term without triggering a general election...

Labour changed PM and Chancellor not too long ago...(well actually nearly 10 years ago) that was only 2 years in...

[thebish]

We elected a political party, not a Prime Minister. There are plenty of people within that political party that are in Brexit - 120ish at least. More than enough to form a government.

aye - but a reshifting in the balance of power within that party is nothing we (the electorate) can demand or do anything about...

I doubt they'd get away with changing the PM and the chancellor just a year into a 5yr term without triggering a general election...

Labour changed PM and Chancellor not too long ago...(well actually nearly 10 years ago) that was only 2 years in...

not on the back of the PM having made a very specific promise in the election campaign that he would definitely serve the full term if elected...

I don't know what will happen following a "leave vote" - what I'd hope for is a general election where parties can properly lay out their response to the new reality, and the electorate make its mind up based on that. I think the turbulence of a leave vote in the tory party will trigger a general election... (I may be wrong!)

[Prufrock]

I think that's probably the case. Think Cameron would resign, then the Tories have a leadership contest. In the unlikely event Georgie won I think that would be that. In the much more likely event it was Boris, think we'd have a GE (probs because they'd be v confident of winning it to get another 5 years and they can make the argument they need a new mandate). To trigger it you could get the Tories putting forward a vote of no confidence in their own govt.

[Worthy4England]

I'm not unhappy with there not being a General Election. Tory's were elected for a 5 year term in the knowledge there would be a referendum (which could have resulted in an out vote)...

Thatcher was also "ousted" whilst in office so there is clear precedent that those positions can change at the whim of the party that's been elected...Chancellors are much more often shuffled.

[Bruce Rioja]

Thatcher was also "ousted" whilst in office

Aye, and was replaced by John fecking Major. Similarly, I don't see there being a suitable replacement within the Tory party should they oust Cameron.

[Worthy4England]

Thatcher was also "ousted" whilst in office

Aye, and was replaced by John fecking Major. Similarly, I don't see there being a suitable replacement within the Tory party should they oust Cameron.

Genuine question - do you think Cameron could reasonably held to account for the promises made by Brexit?

[thebish]

Thatcher was also "ousted" whilst in office

Aye, and was replaced by John fecking Major. Similarly, I don't see there being a suitable replacement within the Tory party should they oust Cameron.

I very much suspect that there is a faction who assume Boris will be that man... (and Gove as chancellor??) joy!

[Bruce Rioja]

Thatcher was also "ousted" whilst in office

Aye, and was replaced by John fecking Major. Similarly, I don't see there being a suitable replacement within the Tory party should they oust Cameron.

Genuine question - do you think Cameron could reasonably held to account for the promises made by Brexit?

Interesting question. Genuinely, if Brexit wins then I think that Cameron's position becomes untenable, however, I really don't see a suitable successor within the party (with the exception of William Hague, but that's not going to happen). I don't see how Cameron could possibly act on the promises made by Brexit having nailed his colours so firmly to the mast.

[Bruce Rioja]

Thatcher was also "ousted" whilst in office

Aye, and was replaced by John fecking Major. Similarly, I don't see there being a suitable replacement within the Tory party should they oust Cameron.

I very much suspect that there is a faction who assume Boris will be that man... (and Gove as chancellor??) joy!

Should that happen then I, and I assume many like me, will be seriously considering all other options come the next GE.

[Worthy4England]

Thatcher was also "ousted" whilst in office

Aye, and was replaced by John fecking Major. Similarly, I don't see there being a suitable replacement within the Tory party should they oust Cameron.

Genuine question - do you think Cameron could reasonably held to account for the promises made by Brexit?

Interesting question. Genuinely, if Brexit wins then I think that Cameron's position becomes untenable, however, I really don't see a suitable successor within the party (with the exception of William Hague, but that's not going to happen). I don't see how Cameron could possibly act on the promises made by Brexit having nailed his colours so firmly to the mast.

That's where I am with it, probably the same for Osborne too. Which is why I think there needs to be a reshuffle should Brexit win (don't believe there should need to be a General Election). Someone needs to be accountable for the promises they've made. I do understand your concern regarding legitimate successors, but I think that's almost irrelevant (other than maybe if you happen to be a Conservative voter ).