Brexit or Britin

[bobo the clown]

It's been a very disturbing trend if this whole campaign that "if you don't agree with me you're an idiot/you didn't understand the implications/you're racist/you're selfish". Add that to "you're old, so shouldn't have been allowed to vote".

There will have been sheep-voters on both sides.

The saddest thing is that there was no clear gap between the sides. It was a referendum intended to put the issue firmly to bed once & for all. It's not done that.

For every uncertain "Leave" there were "Remain" votes by people who don't like the EU but we're fearful of what the outcome would be. Sort of In-lite. We were constantly told that the inertia vote would swing the majority to remain (Pru ??).

A major gripe I have with any referendum is that it's a bit one-way. I have the same view with the Scotchish. Vote to stay and you'll get asked again ... & again ... & again. Vote to leave and no more chances.

However, the sight (& sound) of the arrogant feckers protesting about this makes me bilious. Them telling me I didn't understand and, worse still, I'm racist for disagreeing with them. .. well they can fck right off. People voted. A result happened. Now get on with it.


Oh, & seeing the Islington mentality given a kicking is worth all the pain.

[Lord Kangana]

Its largely irrelrvant whether you yourself are a racist, it is beyond shadow of doubt that you are on the side of an argument that has a mass of racism, bigotry and intolerance behind it. You don't have to go any further than the posts of scores of my Facebook 'friends' ( and bear in mind I've known some of these people long before the referendum came along, I know what their views are) to see the seething undercurrent. And that isn't, sadly, confined to those who know no better. Or indeed the scores of people who have openly said to me they voted on immigration. This actually happened, it's no use backtracking now.

So, on balance, I have absolutely no sympathy now the dust has settled with fellow travellers who are trying to distance themselves in time-honoured mantra of 'wasn't me guv'.

The only people who are really suffering aren't the faux wounded-pride brigade, but scores of people like Bruce's neighbours up and down the country being made to feel unwelcome and scared in it. I'd be interested to know whether they thought it equally worth the pain, no?

[bobo the clown]

I'm afraid it is far from irrelevant whether I am a racist. Thanks

[Enoch]

Self righteous indignation, doesn't one just love it.

Wish I was clever like you, Brian.

[Worthy4England]

It's been a very disturbing trend if this whole campaign that "if you don't agree with me you're an idiot/you didn't understand the implications/you're racist/you're selfish". Add that to "you're old, so shouldn't have been allowed to vote".

There will have been sheep-voters on both sides.

The saddest thing is that there was no clear gap between the sides. It was a referendum intended to put the issue firmly to bed once & for all. It's not done that.

For every uncertain "Leave" there were "Remain" votes by people who don't like the EU but we're fearful of what the outcome would be. Sort of In-lite. We were constantly told that the inertia vote would swing the majority to remain (Pru ??).

A major gripe I have with any referendum is that it's a bit one-way. I have the same view with the Scotchish. Vote to stay and you'll get asked again ... & again ... & again. Vote to leave and no more chances.

However, the sight (& sound) of the arrogant feckers protesting about this makes me bilious. Them telling me I didn't understand and, worse still, I'm racist for disagreeing with them. .. well they can fck right off. People voted. A result happened. Now get on with it.


Oh, & seeing the Islington mentality given a kicking is worth all the pain.

The remainers have been and were called lots of names too. Over a long period of time. Snowflakes seems to be quite popular with young Hoboh at the minute. We were also told, there was lots we didn't understand too.

I understand the argument that the thing we were in now called the EU was different in shape to the thing we voted on in the 1970's. It morphed along with the moaning about it for many years. The leave we voted for on Thursday changed too. On Friday

Which PM candidate is promising £350m a week to the NHS?
Which one is promising free trade without any free movement?
Which one is promising immigration will reduce to less than 100k?

There's plenty of other things people voted in favour of, that seem to have disappeared...

You could say, it seems to have changed out of all recognition to the thing that was voted upon. Just didn't take 30 years to do it.

[Rjs37]

Its largely irrelevant whether you yourself are a racist, it is beyond shadow of doubt that you are on the side of an argument that has a mass of racism, bigotry and intolerance behind it.

The racism point I cede on, but there also has been a complete plethora of bigotry and intolerance from the remain side ever since the result was announced.

I'm the complete opposite of what the media considered to be an average Brexit voter, but I've still been disgusted by the amount of intolerance I've seen towards the elderly since we voted to leave. Ranging from complete disgust to hate to threats, though I've not heard of any attacks as of yet. I'm also disgusted with the racism I've seen before and since the result but since the vote I've seen far more bigotry and intolerance to the elderly than I've seen racism and intolerance to immigrants on my social media.

That however is probably more to do with the crowds that I'm 'friends' with/following: younger millennials who on the majority are based in and around London.

I think Bobo was spot on with his post. There were people who didn't understand any of the implications of their vote (or f**cking imbecile as Dave put) on both sides of the debate. I'd actually argue that a significant number of both Brexiters and Remainers could come under this category. Both campaigns were putting out arguments to scare people into voting for their side and that would have convinced a lot of people one way or the other. That however doesn't mean that voters for one side or the other should be labelled as idiots or imbeciles. That was simply their opinion, however informed (or dis-informed they were).

A lot of the intolerance that we've seen leading into and since the result has been fuelled by this misinformation and scare-mongering. Unfortunately we can't test people for their intolerance levels. However trying to exclude people for having a lower IQ though would just be wrong. Even someone who has a low IQ had the ability to research for themselves what they felt was the best decision. Why should their opinion count less than someone who has a higher IQ, but done absolutely no research and has believed the lies they've been told?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Maybe it's just selective reporting, but I can't recall reading about any remainers regretting their vote in the days following the vote. The same can't be said of a number of leavers. As for the young, they should probably direct their ire at their fellow youngsters rather than the olds given the low turnout of their age group.

Everyone is entitled to vote the way they want, but if anyone cries buyers remorse because they didn't think their voted, or thought it was a bit of a laugh gone wrong, deserves a punch in the gob.

[Worthy4England]

Someone saying "owd buggers" (of which I'm one) are "responsible", is rather different than getting your house egged, Union Flags pushed through your letter box or cards with "go home Polish vermin" written on them. I've seen nothing, diddly squat, zero, reported that's upset me. Unless there's some sort of specific threat, I don't give a fck what someone's mates on Twatter, think.

Is there any evidence of similar things happening to old folk? Or are we just making shit up, still, to somehow trying to make it seem "the same on both sides"?

[Rjs37]

Maybe it's just selective reporting, but I can't recall reading about any remainers regretting their vote in the days following the vote. The same can't be said of a number of leavers. As for the young, they should probably direct their ire at their fellow youngsters rather than the olds given the low turnout of their age group.

Everyone is entitled to vote the way they want, but if anyone cries buyers remorse because they didn't think their voted, or thought it was a bit of a laugh gone wrong, deserves a punch in the gob.

Agreed on that last point.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-u ... u-36689608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to the poll referenced in that article, 5% of Brexiters would change their vote and 2% of Remainers would change their vote. If you do the math based on those percentages and the final figures, then Leave still (only just) pips it by just under 200k votes. Granted in a second referendum there'd also be a much higher turnout from the younger population which would I'm sure more than make up for that difference.

[bobo the clown]

Worthy, I accept you've heard little voter regret from the "Remains". But you bloody would have. Many were of the view to stay and demand more reform. It seems everyone agrees reform is needed .... except the people who would be in charge of accepting it. Many speakers have shown their hand since the vote. A few did beforehand. No reform will voluntarily happen & the UK would be whining like good 'uns by now.

& the committed 'Remainers' would be telling us to stfu.

[Rjs37]

Someone saying "owd buggers" (of which I'm one) are "responsible", is rather different than getting your house egged, Union Flags pushed through your letter box or cards with "go home Polish vermin" written on them. I've seen nothing, diddly squat, zero, reported that's upset me. Unless there's some sort of specific threat, I don't give a fck what someone's mates on Twatter, think.

Is there any evidence of similar things happening to old folk? Or are we just making shit up, still, to somehow trying to make it seem "the same on both sides"?

So its alright to verbally abuse people (much more than just saying old people are responsible) over social media as long as you don't do it in person? Sheesh. I actually said in my post that I've not heard of any attacks, but that doesn't make the intolerance irrelevant. There's no excuse for any intolerance whether that be racism, sexism, ageism or any other form of discrimination. Especially not just because a group of people disagree with you.

I also never said it's the same on both sides. The racism has been far worse and has been increasing for a long while. It's abhorrent, unacceptable and I can't believe how many people have these views. I was just disagreeing with LK's assertion that the intolerant bigots are exclusive to the Brexit camp.

[Harry Genshaw]

Awful thing to have happened to Bruce's neighbours and I hope the gits get caught and locked up asap. But when have racists ever needed an excuse to be tosspots? Is anyone seriously suggesting that those of us who voted leave should have voted remain to prevent this kind of behaviour?

[Worthy4England]

I'm just saying, that, as someone in the demographic you're referring to, I don't give a flying, generally. Intolerance isn't of itself a crime. There's a lot of it about.

[BWFC_Insane]

Someone saying "owd buggers" (of which I'm one) are "responsible", is rather different than getting your house egged, Union Flags pushed through your letter box or cards with "go home Polish vermin" written on them. I've seen nothing, diddly squat, zero, reported that's upset me. Unless there's some sort of specific threat, I don't give a fck what someone's mates on Twatter, think.

Is there any evidence of similar things happening to old folk? Or are we just making shit up, still, to somehow trying to make it seem "the same on both sides"?

So its alright to verbally abuse people (much more than just saying old people are responsible) over social media as long as you don't do it in person? Sheesh. I actually said in my post that I've not heard of any attacks, but that doesn't make the intolerance irrelevant. There's no excuse for any intolerance whether that be racism, sexism, ageism or any other form of discrimination. Especially not just because a group of people disagree with you.

I also never said it's the same on both sides. The racism has been far worse and has been increasing for a long while. It's abhorrent, unacceptable and I can't believe how many people have these views. I was just disagreeing with LK's assertion that the intolerant bigots are exclusive to the Brexit camp.

I think there is a big difference between posting an abusive message through your Polish neighbours door and generally bemoaning the 'old generation' on social media. They are quite different things.

[Worthy4England]

Worthy, I accept you've heard little voter regret from the "Remains". But you bloody would have. Many were of the view to stay and demand more reform. It seems everyone agrees reform is needed .... except the people who would be in charge of accepting it. Many speakers have shown their hand since the vote. A few did beforehand. No reform will voluntarily happen & the UK would be whining like good 'uns by now.

& the committed 'Remainers' would be telling us to stfu.

I'm not as committed as you might think. I too, believe there has to be controlled immigration (as I think did the Labour party in their GE manifesto.) I think from the various conversations on here, most of the Brexiteers were probably in the same place and aren't swivel eyed loons. The remainers might have told you to stfu, I doubt many would have listened. I accept the result of the vote, but the notion, given there was 16.8m disagreed with it, that they should just "hush" isn't right either. They should be entitled to voice their opinion as Brexiteers were entitled to for 30 years.

My largest concern with "leave" was no one could articulate what shape it would be. That's still the case today. How happy would the electorate be, if our trading terms with Europe still incorporated free movement and per capita contributions?

I suspect some would be ok, but some would feel rather conned. I make no apologies for saying people didn't know what they were voting for. That's not based upon their level of intellect, it's based on the fact that no one with a mandate could actually articulate it.

[bobo the clown]

The tragedy, whoever won, is that it was soooo narrow.

The prospect that Junker & his ilk were ever going to comprehend people's concerns was/is as remote as a tremendously remote thing indeed, on a remote planet in a remote galaxy.

They will plough on with 'the project' & the UK won't be the end of it. And it could have been so good !!

[Hoboh]

Oh my oh my, yet another condescending twit who thinks he is in possession of a superior intellect because people hold a different opinion from him.
Good protest in London, I see Geldof has found yet another way to be a complete prick!
No quarrel with those committing criminal acts against others because of their race being locked up btw.

So do you condone the vandalism of property belonging to people simply because they're from a different country then?

Absolutely not!

[Worthy4England]

The tragedy, whoever won, is that it was soooo narrow.

The prospect that Junker & his ilk were ever going to comprehend people's concerns was/is as remote as a tremendously remote thing indeed, on a remote planet in a remote galaxy.

They will plough on with 'the project' & the UK won't be the end of it. And it could have been so good !!

Were you expecting a large vote one way or another? I always had it down as a marginal vote one way or t'other with a probability of out...

[Hoboh]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ang ... spartandhp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bobo the clown]

The tragedy, whoever won, is that it was soooo narrow.

The prospect that Junker & his ilk were ever going to comprehend people's concerns was/is as remote as a tremendously remote thing indeed, on a remote planet in a remote galaxy.

They will plough on with 'the project' & the UK won't be the end of it. And it could have been so good !!

Were you expecting a large vote one way or another? I always had it down as a marginal vote one way or t'other with a probability of out...

I expected it to be close ... close but a Remain win.

Just that when it all began the hope was a clear win. To stop all this. Pru told us it was such a foregone conclusion there was pointless even bothering
I believed him. I BELIEVED HIM !!!!

(No I didn't. But there was a possibility he was right)



(No there wasn't. I'm just trying to be nice. I'll stop now)