The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

The most important thing isn't politicians right now, but lots of dead people and displaced families. on balance.

Note, btw, those odious w*nkstains from the EDL were haranguing Muslims near to the tower block outisde a mosque. As the congregation (I'm not sure this is the correct collective nomenclature, but we all understand) were collecting for the victims/survivors.

I think its about time we had internment camps for balding middle aged English men who have tattoos and aggressive dogs. Anyone on this list should be detained for our wider safety. Just can't risk it.

[Bruce Rioja]

The most important thing isn't politicians right now, but lots of dead people and displaced families. on balance.

Note, btw, those odious w*nkstains from the EDL were haranguing Muslims near to the tower block outisde a mosque. As the congregation (I'm not sure this is the correct collective nomenclature, but we all understand) were collecting for the victims/survivors.

Utter fecking c*nts.

[bedwetter2]

The Queen is 91. She went. It's not political point scoring. It's just good decency.

Now that I agree with. Perhaps it is best that all politicians who do not have a direct responsibility for the disastrous events at the tower block keep away. And do not speculate on what the causes of the fire are. I'm sure there are those in the local authorities who do know and are keeping quiet at the moment.

[Worthy4England]

The most important thing isn't politicians right now, but lots of dead people and displaced families. on balance.

Note, btw, those odious w*nkstains from the EDL were haranguing Muslims near to the tower block outisde a mosque. As the congregation (I'm not sure this is the correct collective nomenclature, but we all understand) were collecting for the victims/survivors.

I think its about time we had internment camps for balding middle aged English men who have tattoos and aggressive dogs. Anyone on this list should be detained for our wider safety. Just can't risk it.

We're going to be in trouble with that one. We would need some huge camps.

[bedwetter2]

Might be worth a mention that back in 1945 (I was six and we had just endured six years of world war),a shortage of everything, including food - ask your grandparents- most of the walking wounded soldiers coming back home to who knew what, country grieving for its dead and a massive relief that it was all over, the corridors of power of Parliament and Westminster seemed a long way away from the dole and the blue-collar world of the rest of the country. I can actually remember the opposing parties canvassing round the streets (we didn't have many T.V's or even telephones around back then)with megaphones and tannoys from cars (even they were as rare as Starship Enterprise back then) and I can assure you that anybody voting would very likely be every bit as confused as they seem right now as to what/who they were actually voting for. Cotton mills, pits and overall-based industry were a long way from University Challenge. To compare Winston Churchill's politics to today is as useful as comparing your central heating engineer with a coal man or Lady Gaga with Vera Lynn. It was all over seventy years ago. Even I think we've moved on a little in relevant issues.

Whilst not quite as old as you Tango I do, as a child, remember rationing and the grey, grey atmosphere of Britain. You are correct about the lack of media apart from the newspapers, which did a reasonable job of reporting news as opposed to opinions which nowadays try to influence the electorate one way or the other.

Believe it or not, there was always another Britain without the cotton mills, pits and other manual industries employing large parts of the population in conurbations. The other Britain was less dependent on heavy industry and was busy developing an electronics, aerospace and other high tech industries whilst still retaining large agricultural and fishing sectors. Even the north west had parts of the aircraft industry alongside the satanic mills and pits.

Of course the country was in mourning for the dead and severely injured and wanted a change from what had gone before. My point was that Labour were given one term before they were found wanting. The achievements of Labour were significant in setting up the NHS and buildings lots of new homes but they couldn't take the greyness out of peoples lives and, let's be honest, they have never been viewed as economically competent. At the time that Churchill's Tories were voted back into government his powers were very much waning and he was in the early stages of dementia when he was replaced by Eden. So it is a little unfair to make the comparison.

Just to be clear I'm sure there were just as many bright people in those times as now, possibly more, as the dumbing down continues towards a celebrity-obsessed hell. University Challenge is needed now more than ever before to counteract the cack that is part of everyday life.

[BWFC_Insane]

Might be worth a mention that back in 1945 (I was six and we had just endured six years of world war),a shortage of everything, including food - ask your grandparents- most of the walking wounded soldiers coming back home to who knew what, country grieving for its dead and a massive relief that it was all over, the corridors of power of Parliament and Westminster seemed a long way away from the dole and the blue-collar world of the rest of the country. I can actually remember the opposing parties canvassing round the streets (we didn't have many T.V's or even telephones around back then)with megaphones and tannoys from cars (even they were as rare as Starship Enterprise back then) and I can assure you that anybody voting would very likely be every bit as confused as they seem right now as to what/who they were actually voting for. Cotton mills, pits and overall-based industry were a long way from University Challenge. To compare Winston Churchill's politics to today is as useful as comparing your central heating engineer with a coal man or Lady Gaga with Vera Lynn. It was all over seventy years ago. Even I think we've moved on a little in relevant issues.

Whilst not quite as old as you Tango I do, as a child, remember rationing and the grey, grey atmosphere of Britain. You are correct about the lack of media apart from the newspapers, which did a reasonable job of reporting news as opposed to opinions which nowadays try to influence the electorate one way or the other.

Believe it or not, there was always another Britain without the cotton mills, pits and other manual industries employing large parts of the population in conurbations. The other Britain was less dependent on heavy industry and was busy developing an electronics, aerospace and other high tech industries whilst still retaining large agricultural and fishing sectors. Even the north west had parts of the aircraft industry alongside the satanic mills and pits.

Of course the country was in mourning for the dead and severely injured and wanted a change from what had gone before. My point was that Labour were given one term before they were found wanting. The achievements of Labour were significant in setting up the NHS and buildings lots of new homes but they couldn't take the greyness out of peoples lives and, let's be honest, they have never been viewed as economically competent. At the time that Churchill's Tories were voted back into government his powers were very much waning and he was in the early stages of dementia when he was replaced by Eden. So it is a little unfair to make the comparison.

Just to be clear I'm sure there were just as many bright people in those times as now, possibly more, as the dumbing down continues towards a celebrity-obsessed hell. University Challenge is needed now more than ever before to counteract the cack that is part of everyday life.

Ahh goody, another of the "It were miles better in the 50's brigade".

Conversely we now have a whole range of expert, evidence based research available for perusal to you and I. From you know, actual lifelong experts in their respective fields. Knowledge and information is out there and accessible like never before.

[TANGODANCER]

^
I'm not really arguing with any of that BW12,and I'm aware there were varying parts of the jigsaw outside the mill towns and pits, but the views of those involved obviously were motivated, as ever was, by personal situations and lifestyles.. My point was mainly that Churchill was the man for that situation at that time( a country at war fighting for its life) and a strong leader was needed to guide the country through that war. Just in the same way you wouldn't employ a joiner to fix a gas leak or a painter and decorator to repair your car, it was a "cometh the hour" situation for the right man and Churchill was that man. When the war ended the same set of rules no longer applied. A man of peace was needed, but it was all less than clear cut in who or just what the needs were. A time for level heads not political scrapping. Six years of war has somewhat made political semse take a back bench (if you'll pardon the awful pun) and a period of common sense and mutual agreement required. Sadly, in politics a thousand years haven't managed to achieve it yet.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The most important thing isn't politicians right now, but lots of dead people and displaced families. on balance.

Note, btw, those odious w*nkstains from the EDL were haranguing Muslims near to the tower block outisde a mosque. As the congregation (I'm not sure this is the correct collective nomenclature, but we all understand) were collecting for the victims/survivors.

I think its about time we had internment camps for balding middle aged English men who have tattoos and aggressive dogs. Anyone on this list should be detained for our wider safety. Just can't risk it.

We're going to be in trouble with that one. We would need some huge camps.

Let Krankie have her Indref2 and send them all there a few hours before they piss off

[Lord Kangana]

Theresa May has just been on the telly box. As a human being, I feel sorry for her. She looks like she's barely hanging on to her sanity. F*ck knows who or what comes next, but theres no way she's hanging in until autumn.

[Hoboh]

It really is a sorry state of affairs when people can get away with sticking crap, as seems likely, onto buildings. One only has to watch the flames shooting up the outside to deduce these bloody panels accelerated the spread of fire, you really don't need to be Einstein to work that out.
The question is, amongst all the fury and calling for criminal cases to be brought, if the dammed panels were fitted correctly and were within the building regulations, just how the hell would anyone be found guilty of any offence?
Clearly there was a hell of a lot wrong with that building and nothing like those dreadful scenes should ever be seen again in this country, the currant 'blame game' will do nothing to sort that out.
Just as an aside I have been in buildings with high pressure hoses on every level, even old ones that had suffered fire damage in the past and had these retro fitted, Lanhydrock, a Victorian house owned by the National trust had a hose system fitted back then, are we really so naïve or bloody careless!
I hope the poor people caught up in this nightmare get sorted out correctly and swiftly, unfortunately nothing will erase the nightmares a lot will endure and a good start to this will be to stop playing bloody politics and get them settled.

[BWFC_Insane]

It really is a sorry state of affairs when people can get away with sticking crap, as seems likely, onto buildings. One only has to watch the flames shooting up the outside to deduce these bloody panels accelerated the spread of fire, you really don't need to be Einstein to work that out.
The question is, amongst all the fury and calling for criminal cases to be brought, if the dammed panels were fitted correctly and were within the building regulations, just how the hell would anyone be found guilty of any offence?
Clearly there was a hell of a lot wrong with that building and nothing like those dreadful scenes should ever be seen again in this country, the currant 'blame game' will do nothing to sort that out.
Just as an aside I have been in buildings with high pressure hoses on every level, even old ones that had suffered fire damage in the past and had these retro fitted, Lanhydrock, a Victorian house owned by the National trust had a hose system fitted back then, are we really so naïve or bloody careless!
I hope the poor people caught up in this nightmare get sorted out correctly and swiftly, unfortunately nothing will erase the nightmares a lot will endure and a good start to this will be to stop playing bloody politics and get them settled.

Well indeed. Though we still have to look at blame. It may be that certain regulations have been sat on by government that could have helped prevent this. There were increased fire regulations suggestions meant to come in force in 2013 but didn't as I understand it.

Anyhow I hope those people find some peace and get the support they will need to do so.

[Worthy4England]

Theresa May has just been on the telly box. As a human being, I feel sorry for her. She looks like she's barely hanging on to her sanity. F*ck knows who or what comes next, but theres no way she's hanging in until autumn.

Was that her interview on Beeb? Was truly awful. It's like someone says to her just before she goes on air "remember these five key responses" but she can only remember one of them.

Clearly a lot of angry affected people looking for support and answers from people who largely seem to be hiding...

[bedwetter2]

Might be worth a mention that back in 1945 (I was six and we had just endured six years of world war),a shortage of everything, including food - ask your grandparents- most of the walking wounded soldiers coming back home to who knew what, country grieving for its dead and a massive relief that it was all over, the corridors of power of Parliament and Westminster seemed a long way away from the dole and the blue-collar world of the rest of the country. I can actually remember the opposing parties canvassing round the streets (we didn't have many T.V's or even telephones around back then)with megaphones and tannoys from cars (even they were as rare as Starship Enterprise back then) and I can assure you that anybody voting would very likely be every bit as confused as they seem right now as to what/who they were actually voting for. Cotton mills, pits and overall-based industry were a long way from University Challenge. To compare Winston Churchill's politics to today is as useful as comparing your central heating engineer with a coal man or Lady Gaga with Vera Lynn. It was all over seventy years ago. Even I think we've moved on a little in relevant issues.

Whilst not quite as old as you Tango I do, as a child, remember rationing and the grey, grey atmosphere of Britain. You are correct about the lack of media apart from the newspapers, which did a reasonable job of reporting news as opposed to opinions which nowadays try to influence the electorate one way or the other.

Believe it or not, there was always another Britain without the cotton mills, pits and other manual industries employing large parts of the population in conurbations. The other Britain was less dependent on heavy industry and was busy developing an electronics, aerospace and other high tech industries whilst still retaining large agricultural and fishing sectors. Even the north west had parts of the aircraft industry alongside the satanic mills and pits.

Of course the country was in mourning for the dead and severely injured and wanted a change from what had gone before. My point was that Labour were given one term before they were found wanting. The achievements of Labour were significant in setting up the NHS and buildings lots of new homes but they couldn't take the greyness out of peoples lives and, let's be honest, they have never been viewed as economically competent. At the time that Churchill's Tories were voted back into government his powers were very much waning and he was in the early stages of dementia when he was replaced by Eden. So it is a little unfair to make the comparison.

Just to be clear I'm sure there were just as many bright people in those times as now, possibly more, as the dumbing down continues towards a celebrity-obsessed hell. University Challenge is needed now more than ever before to counteract the cack that is part of everyday life.

Ahh goody, another of the "It were miles better in the 50's brigade".

Conversely we now have a whole range of expert, evidence based research available for perusal to you and I. From you know, actual lifelong experts in their respective fields. Knowledge and information is out there and accessible like never before.

Please read the full text before leaping to conclusions. I know that is your favourite game but I did state that the post war years were grey and depressing so how you draw the conclusion that I said it was miles better in the 50s is quite a stretch.

My only reference to current vs post war concerned the media and the growing celebrity obsession.

[Worthy4England]

The good news about to 50's is we now have the WRVS running the country.

"So Prime Minister, what do you say to those people who want answers?"

"I immediately ran into the kitchen and baked a Victoria Sponge"

"Is it fire retardant?"

"No, but there's lots of hot sweet tea, too"

"They called you a coward"

"But I've given them money, what could be more important than cake, tea and money?"

"They don't think you're listening..."

"Would you like a biscuit, dear?"

[bedwetter2]

The good news about to 50's is we now have the WRVS running the country.

"So Prime Minister, what do you say to those people who want answers?"

"I immediately ran into the kitchen and baked a Victoria Sponge"

"Is it fire retardant?"

"No, but there's lots of hot sweet tea, too"

"They called you a coward"

"But I've given them money, what could be more important than cake, tea and money?"

"They don't think you're listening..."

"Would you like a biscuit, dear?"

May has handled this as badly as any fcukwit could. The fact that she probably has virtually unlimited advisors and supposedly media savvy ones at that is mighty curious. Even if she is as cold as the coldest fish I would have thought that she would have been told to give a sympathetic interview straight away and get herself down to Grenfell Tower tout de suite to listen to the residents. In fact she could have gone further and immediately hired a meeting room to listen to the needs of groups of residents together with some of her ministers with notes taken for actions to follow.

Very odd.

[Worthy4England]

It is Sir, just bizarre.

[Prufrock]

2 quid the difference between the fire-proof panel and the not apparently. £5k in total for the whole building.

Must say the DM's faux outrage after its decades long "Elf n Safety" campaigns sickened me somewhat.

[TANGODANCER]

Ahh goody, another of the "It were miles better in the 50's brigade".
Conversely we now have a whole range of expert, evidence based research available for perusal to you and I. From you know, actual lifelong experts in their respective fields. Knowledge and information is out there and accessible like never before.

Oh, hey, this is good. "Lifelong experts" on what exactly Insaney? Most of them were probably in short pants at best in the post war 50's, and keeping in mind that most that weren't are probably passed on now, comparing almost seventy years ago has what relevance exactly with today? We had chalkboards (note the politically correct terminology) pens and ink, counting frames and mental arithmatic back then, so I doff the cap grand style at keyboards, calculators, computors i-pads and every other progress item of modern technology with due respect.( Gee, I can reply to you in seconds, back in 1950 I'd have had to send you a second -class hand-written letter you'd get two/three days later.) The rest is as relevant as fish and chips at elevenpence. Like I've said, anyone who wants to kick the past should remember their families were part of it. Move on, find solutions for today, not faults with the past, unless you're ninety or so.....are you?

[Lord Kangana]

We'll soon have elevenpence back Tango! That'll learn them over on the continent!

[TANGODANCER]

We'll soon have elevenpence back Tango! That'll learn them over on the continent!

Oh, right, I'll have fish and chips three times then please, pea wet and scraps..

( Incidentally, I saw a bloke buy a pack of cigarettes at our local newsagents this morning...£8.there's progress for you ???..kinell, )