The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
11
38%
Conservatives
11
38%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
10%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 29

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TANGODANCER
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:58 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:50 pm

Given your main complaints seemn to be cuts, and financial services taking priority over industry (i think that's a fair summary of what you're saying but perhaps not) I just don't get why you'd vote for the Tories, the party of austerity who seem to have made defending billionaires an explicit pillar of their campaign, and not Corbyn's Labour who would love to nail the bankers, and spend billions on public services. Personally they're not for me this time, but they seem to tick your boxes to me.
Sigh! I do wish you'd actually read my posts with a little mind flexibility instead of leaping aboard your supercharged Rocinante, singing a rousing chorus of "Do ye ken John Peel" and galloping headlong at my creaking windmill. My signature tune is (repeated so often I'm boring myself) is "I know not the answer". You either give too much credibility to mere opinionism (which it undoubtedly is) from some eager desire to prove me wrong, as if I care, or, fail to realise you are self-admittedly as much in the dark as I am and therefore why question a mere opinion with such eager gusto? . (please don't tell me it's a public forum again, I already worked that one out) because I'm neither questioning other views or preaching dogma.

I and many family generations before me have "always" voted Labour. Father an Irish labourer, mother a mill girl. Given my historical backgound ie, the Bash Street, working class,Woodbine and whippet class you have pxss taken about so often in the past ( no upper middle class Jane Austen hunting,shooting and fishing hero me, except in literature's wild imagination) ) that's to be expected in the broad sense. I have never pretended to be otherwise nor wish to. Despite all the twists and turns the Rubik Cube has been manipulated in the way of political promises and doctrine, I repeat my points as "Where exactly,in 2019, are we? I expect no answer of consequence but if you know one, I'll join you at the ballot box and let you mark my vote.

I do hope your persistence won't dissuade me from having a view, unimportant as it may undoubtedly be. "Si Deus pro nobis, Quis contra no"...or thereabouts. :wink:
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:22 pm

.
Last edited by Prufrock on Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:41 pm

My thought process there was:

Tango has said something there that is different to how I think but let's see why.

But he is very defensive and takes almost any question as some sort of personal attack.

There, I've rewritten it and hedged it and softened it and now surely even he can't be so thin-skinned as to find some offence at that.

Ah. How silly of me, of course he has.

I have never written anything as tentative, free of gusto or less persistent in my life. And yet, here we are.
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That it's going to lose its mind
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by jimbo » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:16 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:58 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:50 pm

Given your main complaints seemn to be cuts, and financial services taking priority over industry (i think that's a fair summary of what you're saying but perhaps not) I just don't get why you'd vote for the Tories, the party of austerity who seem to have made defending billionaires an explicit pillar of their campaign, and not Corbyn's Labour who would love to nail the bankers, and spend billions on public services. Personally they're not for me this time, but they seem to tick your boxes to me.
Sigh! I do wish you'd actually read my posts with a little mind flexibility instead of leaping aboard your supercharged Rocinante, singing a rousing chorus of "Do ye ken John Peel" and galloping headlong at my creaking windmill. My signature tune is (repeated so often I'm boring myself) is "I know not the answer". You either give too much credibility to mere opinionism (which it undoubtedly is) from some eager desire to prove me wrong, as if I care, or, fail to realise you are self-admittedly as much in the dark as I am and therefore why question a mere opinion with such eager gusto? . (please don't tell me it's a public forum again, I already worked that one out) because I'm neither questioning other views or preaching dogma.

I and many family generations before me have "always" voted Labour. Father an Irish labourer, mother a mill girl. Given my historical backgound ie, the Bash Street, working class,Woodbine and whippet class you have pxss taken about so often in the past ( no upper middle class Jane Austen hunting,shooting and fishing hero me, except in literature's wild imagination) ) that's to be expected in the broad sense. I have never pretended to be otherwise nor wish to. Despite all the twists and turns the Rubik Cube has been manipulated in the way of political promises and doctrine, I repeat my points as "Where exactly,in 2019, are we? I expect no answer of consequence but if you know one, I'll join you at the ballot box and let you mark my vote.

I do hope your persistence won't dissuade me from having a view, unimportant as it may undoubtedly be. "Si Deus pro nobis, Quis contra no"...or thereabouts. :wink:
But there’s someone on the ballot paper who’s manifesto will aim to correct a lot of the things you take issue with in politics and life in general, yet you are openly going to vote for the other guy, who’s party has been in government for 10 years and created the current situation. There’s a big contradiction there which is interesting and worth gentle discussion, as Pru was trying.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:19 pm

^^^
I haven't voted for anybody yet. Tango shakes head and gives up. It's almost tea time.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by jimbo » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:27 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:19 pm
^^^
I haven't voted for anybody yet. Tango shakes head and gives up. It's almost tea time.
You did say you were leaning towards Boris, and earlier in the thread were adamant you weren’t voting labour. It’s a discussion forum and it’s interesting that you’re turning away from the party that seems to be trying to answer your issues most directly. There must be a reason - is it Corbyn? Are there policies of other parties that appeal more? If labour can’t even win the votes of people who share the same philosophy then it’s a poor indictment on them as a party.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:41 pm
My thought process there was:

Tango has said something there that is different to how I think but let's see why.

But he is very defensive and takes almost any question as some sort of personal attack.

There, I've rewritten it and hedged it and softened it and now surely even he can't be so thin-skinned as to find some offence at that.

Ah. How silly of me, of course he has.

I have never written anything as tentative, free of gusto or less persistent in my life. And yet, here we are.
Been on the bottle lad? :conf:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:25 pm

jimbo wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:27 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:19 pm
^^^
I haven't voted for anybody yet. Tango shakes head and gives up. It's almost tea time.
You did say you were leaning towards Boris, and earlier in the thread were adamant you weren’t voting labour. It’s a discussion forum and it’s interesting that you’re turning away from the party that seems to be trying to answer your issues most directly. There must be a reason - is it Corbyn? Are there policies of other parties that appeal more? If labour can’t even win the votes of people who share the same philosophy then it’s a poor indictment on them as a party.
quote-not mine.. "Corbyn's Labour who would love to nail the bankers, and spend billions on public services." -unquote. So many billions yet "Cuts" is the byword of the same leaders of the people of our country. .? Kids throw fireworks at firemen, the understaffed police race round in circles chasing pxssed up boy racers, drugs are rampant on the streets and gangs are shooting and stabbing each other. (and that's just Farnworth) Who do you actually believe is going to change things?? Tell me and I'll give them the cross right now.

And you can see that pipe-dream happening Jimbo? Nobody makes promises better than a potential Prime Minister of whichever ilk, till they finally reach Downing Street. I'm wondering why we aren't concentrating on getting a nation agreed on Brexit; a nation whose government can't even agree how many Weetabix they should have for breakfast? I wish I were convinced enough about anything political to vote with conviction for anybody. I'm not. This is a total non-debate because I'm not in argument with anyone. Last time of saying it...No se.."I do not know who is worth voting for"..I'm not politically au-fait enough to scrawl a cross in a box with conviction or belief. What do you want to debate about, immigration, slave labour, sex perverts, because these are the real issues we face. ...Can any of it be answered by a political party? It hasn't been so far. We can't even get a half-a-dozen folk on an internet forum to agree,what chance a national vote?

Amen.
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:01 pm

John McDonnell smashing it this lunchtime. Probably convinced me into putting my x next to them again
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by jimbo » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:07 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:01 pm
John McDonnell smashing it this lunchtime. Probably convinced me into putting my x next to them again
I’ve not seen it, but Watson leaving, and then Ian Austin openly telling people to vote conservative could be deeply damaging. It really will be a case of those who are deemed least shit by the electorate being voted in.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:20 pm

jimbo wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:07 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:01 pm
John McDonnell smashing it this lunchtime. Probably convinced me into putting my x next to them again
I’ve not seen it, but Watson leaving, and then Ian Austin openly telling people to vote conservative could be deeply damaging. It really will be a case of those who are deemed least shit by the electorate being voted in.
I've not heard Watson's reasons for stepping down although he hasn't looked comfortable for a while. McDonnell said that Austin was employed by the Tories (?)

It was an impressive speech and Q&A session with the media. He comes across far better than Jezza imo
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by jimbo » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:36 am

Interesting to hear Matt Hancock all over the place this morning with his great plan to get 6000 new GPs. It’s a lovely pledge and much needed, but it’s one that has been trumpeted by the Conservative party since 2014. So far they’ve increased numbers by 270 and failed to address the main issues regarding retention older GPs and training new ones. I find it amazing how there’s hard evidence of 9 years of conservative policies across all public services yet people seem willing to believe them that things will be magically different this time.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by jimbo » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:37 am

And I still think this government would be toast if there was a reasonably well led opposition pointing out these failings time and time again rather than failing to sort out their own issues (some petty, some much bigger).

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:00 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:22 pm
.
Nearly the most perfect response, without edges. I might have proffered "?" but that would lose a sense of symmetry.

I'm delighted that at least one person still thinks immigration is a real issue. I'd just point out that since the referendum, EU net migration has plummeted to well below 100k. The only thing that's happened is that it's been counterbalanced and overtaken by non-EU migration. Well done to the fcuking brain dead, for managing to stop 85m Turks flooding in. Oh almost forgot, they're not in the EU anyhow - they can quite happily add to the "non-EU element".

We have a government in power (sort of) that promised the electorate the fastest trade deal in history and have now taken over three years just to try and work out how to leave the current trade deal - unsuccessfully. The gullible feck* believed them. They lost their majority as they chose to go to the polls. They were that poor they propped their new government up with a bribe to a set of ex-terrorists whilst pointing out other people's links to terrorists (not giving them hard cash bribes, just talking to them). They failed to get just the "how we leave" part of their deal (not the complicated bit - how we then continue to trade) through a parliament they'd bribed people to support, three times. They sacked some of their own members, they lost more government ministers relative to time than any other party in history. Some left of their own accord. Then they lost their bribed supporters with attempt number four. You couldn't make it up. They then have the brass neck to blame every other feck* for their own startling incompetence and years of austerity.

Now they're pitching to "get Brexit done" when leaving would be anything but getting Brexit done. Brexit is done once we have replacement deals in place - maybe in 7 years time.

I think half our electorate would vote for Trump to lead the UK. It's enough to make you weep.

Meanwhile, one of the key orchestrators of Brexit doesn't want to stand in an election he told everyone his party will take lots of seats in. Maybe he doesn't want to be unelected for an 8th time.

At Brexit time, we were pointed to plenty of analysis of what shape the world would be from Neil Woodford - how's that turning out for you, Neil?

For what it's worth, I think the Tory's will probably win - albeit it looks incredibly difficult to call. I don't see Labour ever winning with Jeremy Corbyn at the helm, even if he had policies making everyone millionaires (yes I can see the economic problem with that statement :-) ). Some of his polices are just "prick central" - I think it's right to go after the super-rich for a bit more, but let's be honest, they'll never find it, so that burden will fall elsewhere.

I have no notion who I'm going to vote for. Can't see it being either of the "main two".

Having heeded Hoboh's call that it was a bit quiet in here, I'll now retire again. COYW.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:00 pm

^ folk who vote differently to you must be brain dead, gullible fecks and enough to make you weep?

The Referendum came along during a period of austerity measures that saw nearly a million and a half people using food banks. Many of whom were in work and struggling to make ends meet. The very architects of those measures, Cameron and Osborne, were then telling those very same people to back them and carry on as we were. Was it such a surprise that many thought "feck that"?

We're a divided nation. Insulting folk by calling them stupid or racist because they have a different point of view isn't going to help
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:32 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:00 pm
The very architects of those measures, Cameron and Osborne,
The true architects of those measures were Blair and Brown

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:48 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:32 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:00 pm
The very architects of those measures, Cameron and Osborne,
The true architects of those measures were Blair and Brown

'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'
Austerity was a Conservative party policy (with Lib dem help). Now you might think it was a necessary policy as a result of Blair and Brown, I don't personally, but it was Dave and George who implemented it.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:03 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:48 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:32 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:00 pm
The very architects of those measures, Cameron and Osborne,
The true architects of those measures were Blair and Brown

'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'
Austerity was a Conservative party policy (with Lib dem help). Now you might think it was a necessary policy as a result of Blair and Brown, I don't personally, but it was Dave and George who implemented it.
It's not who implemented it. it's why it was implemented and who caused it's implementation.

There are hunter-gatherers, and there are those who rely upon us. When the tail wags the dog, there'll inevitably be a bill to settle which has been ran up by the non-productive, free-spending arm of the economy. I'm amazed that so many intelligent people I know can't grasp this basic principle, but then I look as to which side of the divide they fall by way of earning a living.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:59 pm

^ It's a different argument. The point I was making in response to Worthy, was that there were lots of folk who voted for Brexit based on their personal circumstances being pretty shitty already. If you're working with pretty poor terms and conditions and relying on food banks, you probably wouldn't care which party was responsible. Your hardly going to trust the word of the powers in charge who are encouraging you to vote for the status quo.

It amazes me that when the whole sub prime market collapsed in the US, causing a run on the banks and a global recession, that intelligent folk blamed Gordon Brown. Like I say though, that's a different argument :D
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:33 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:59 pm
^ It's a different argument. The point I was making in response to Worthy, was that there were lots of folk who voted for Brexit based on their personal circumstances being pretty shitty already. If you're working with pretty poor terms and conditions and relying on food banks, you probably wouldn't care which party was responsible. Your hardly going to trust the word of the powers in charge who are encouraging you to vote for the status quo.

It amazes me that when the whole sub prime market collapsed in the US, causing a run on the banks and a global recession, that intelligent folk blamed Gordon Brown. Like I say though, that's a different argument :D
I don"t think I said anyone voted for Brexit because of their personal circumstances. I think I said they voted for Brexit coz they were stupid gullible fcukwits?

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