creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by jimbo » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:18 pm

Shouldn’t judge things until both teams have batted etc etc but we’re like a broken record. Team selection makes it obvious we’ve no faith in our batting. It looks horribly unbalanced. Once again Sibley bats through a session and only scores 15. Crawley once again both fluent and wafty. Bairstow once again looks good and then misses a straight one, and Lawrence is another one of our flaky middle order. All on Root and Buttler now.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:20 pm

We looked to be doing so well, then two wickets in two balls and suddenly,,,,,,
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by jimbo » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:29 pm

Buttler gone. Just needs Curran to hit a breezy 20 off 18 to complete the textbook England batting performance.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:45 pm

jimbo wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:29 pm
Buttler gone. Just needs Curran to hit a breezy 20 off 18 to complete the textbook England batting performance.
Didn't look for an hour...Jeez. 5 of top 7 have faced 6 balls between them in Championship since NZ test....(And they were all Crawley)...

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by jimbo » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:46 pm

FFS. I should probably care a bit less about this and fully treasure the white ball side, but test cricket still the pinnacle for me and it’s incredibly frustrating.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:47 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:45 pm
jimbo wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:29 pm
Buttler gone. Just needs Curran to hit a breezy 20 off 18 to complete the textbook England batting performance.
Didn't look for an hour...Jeez. 5 of top 7 have faced 6 balls between them in Championship since NZ test....(And they were all Crawley)...
But they’ve all been playing the hundred…..

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:48 pm

jimbo wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:46 pm
FFS. I should probably care a bit less about this and fully treasure the white ball side, but test cricket still the pinnacle for me and it’s incredibly frustrating.
Treasure the white ball side. They are world beaters. But equally lament the lacklustre lazy shocking test jokers.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:37 pm

Yikes.
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Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:46 pm

i think we may need to improve a little....no, make that a lot...
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:40 pm

Honestly let’s not even go to Australia. We’ve already lost and the humiliation as they stomp us time and again in three days or under is going to be awful.

Honestly if these players are the best we’ve got then the least they can do is really put full effort in and apply themselves. I see absolutely no application or desire to be better. Crawley has played a number of tests now. He’s lucky to get this many chances. Yet every time his game is the same. The same flaw. Yet it’s repeated. No effort no application. He’s lazy. Same for Bairstow but I think he’s just forgotten test cricket all together. Someone needs to put a real case to me how Moeen isn’t in as an all rounder with Stokes missing.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:33 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:47 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:45 pm
jimbo wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:29 pm
Buttler gone. Just needs Curran to hit a breezy 20 off 18 to complete the textbook England batting performance.
Didn't look for an hour...Jeez. 5 of top 7 have faced 6 balls between them in Championship since NZ test....(And they were all Crawley)...
But they’ve all been playing the hundred…..
Yeah, sorta the point, I was making. Reap what you sow. Lots of batsmen able to hit 18 in an over but not capable of lasting two.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by jimbo » Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:56 am

The lack of first class cricket is something that people jump to to explain poor performance, but I wonder how old fashioned that idea is. How much first class cricket do players from other countries play? I saw something the other day that Kohli hasn’t played a FC match that isn’t for India for about 10 years. He’s only ever played 30 domestic FC matches in his life. Other countries seem to be able to manage multi format cricket a lot better than we do, without long stretches of domestic cricket.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:28 pm

jimbo wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:56 am
The lack of first class cricket is something that people jump to to explain poor performance, but I wonder how old fashioned that idea is. How much first class cricket do players from other countries play? I saw something the other day that Kohli hasn’t played a FC match that isn’t for India for about 10 years. He’s only ever played 30 domestic FC matches in his life. Other countries seem to be able to manage multi format cricket a lot better than we do, without long stretches of domestic cricket.
I agree Jimbo, I'm not suggesting that short form cricket is the explanation, but probably a contributor. As you say the other countries will and do, have their own players who also significantly play more short form cricket. I've never been sure that County Cricket is a great stepping stone to tests either. We've heard lots from players over the years, saying the step-up was like starting anew as it invariably is from decent club, to county. Sure some of our wickets in the last few tests, have been to great balls, but a lot of them have been down to poor technique and poor shot selection. I watch England batsmen time and again, with little notion of length and little appreciation as to where they are in relation to the wickets or where their bat is in relation to the ball or their defensive form. I do doubt whether these type of problems are sorted out in ODI's, T20's and Hundreds and whilst I'm also not sure CC would sort them, it at least provides an opportunity to bat for a decent while.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by jimbo » Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:46 pm

Yeah I think the limiting factor is that ultimately the players aren’t good enough. We can debate selection, batting order, preparation or mentality all we want, but it’s all futile when the basic ability isn’t there.

I notice Sharma going well and playing nicely this morning. His last first class game that wasn’t a test match was 2015, so again he’s able to adapt nicely, live in bubbles, switch between 3 formats without domestic warm ups.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:00 pm

Yup - Our XI has played more first class games than their XI...and it's great when it's going well, the question is, what to do about it when it isn't? But you're right, if the basics aren't there, then there isn't much you can actually do. We had clear selection issues at opener, and I was hopeful that Burns and Sibley might make the jump. I'm less certain now, and the middle order is poor by international standards.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:17 pm

We really only have Stokes, and to a lesser extent, Root and Buttler, who you could say were successful across all 3 forms.

Why do other countries (at least seem to) manage to produce more players who can play across all forms? It's not ball striking talent, the depth of white ball talent shows that, so what's going on? The bit we're missing seems to be very coachable rather than "natural talent".
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:24 pm

I had a pet theory I was bouncing around in the pub the other week that it might be partly being the only top class cricket country whose summer is Northern hemisphere summer. So there are so many chances for our players, even the not quite top ones, to play white ball cricket. Limits on overseas players mean they get white ball games over here, and then there are so many tournaments they can go and play in the winter too. If they aren't good enough for the IPL there is the PSL, the Big Bash etc.

I also wonder whether UK conditions play a part too. Just being tidy isn't going to be enough to get you a score here because you might just get a good ball that moves. So it's hard to build momentum. Whereas it's easier to build scores and then confidence playing on tracks.

But on the flip side you might think that should improve you quicker. If you can score here, and play spin, you could score runs anywhere. And it doesn't hurt NZ (though I read they've been trying to prepare better batting pitches over there and bat teams out.
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:25 pm

Had enough of Sibley too. Top order seem to have got overfocused with batting time. I understand why it happened because we were awful, but you have to score too.
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by jimbo » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:33 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:25 pm
Had enough of Sibley too. Top order seem to have got overfocused with batting time. I understand why it happened because we were awful, but you have to score too.
Yeah Tufnell made a point yesterday that nailed it for me. He can bat for 1 and a half sessions and score 20 and doesn’t have any other gears to ever kick on. He’s never going to strike fear into opponents as he isn’t going to change a game.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by jimbo » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:34 pm

jimbo wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:33 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:25 pm
Had enough of Sibley too. Top order seem to have got overfocused with batting time. I understand why it happened because we were awful, but you have to score too.
Yeah Tufnell made a point yesterday that nailed it for me. He can bat for 1 and a half sessions and score 20 and doesn’t have any other gears to ever kick on. He’s never going to strike fear into opponents as he isn’t going to change a game.
It also takes a lot of skill, luck and ability to survive for 150 balls in a test match, and you won’t do it that often. If a player does so, you want them to be making substantial contributions rather than just a 50.

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