The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
12
40%
Conservatives
11
37%
Liberal Democrats
2
7%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
10%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:26 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:15 pm
Do you think we'd have less deaths had we stayed in the EU?
As a binary in/out then no. As a - without the Brexit vote would we have the heady mix of authoritarian, free marketeer bullshitters in charge that have led us down this path - then no and I'd expect with Cameron or May we'd have fared far better.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:14 pm

I notice that Ireland, Spain, Belgium, Denmark and Portugal are all now above us in % of population fully vaccinated table.

But I thought we could only achieve our vaccination program at such a pace because we left the EU? Have I missed the exits of those nations?

:conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:24 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:14 pm
I notice that Ireland, Spain, Belgium, Denmark and Portugal are all now above us in % of population fully vaccinated table.

But I thought we could only achieve our vaccination program at such a pace because we left the EU? Have I missed the exits of those nations?

:conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf:
Far be it from me to take the government's side, if we have 20% of the population that are never going to get vaccinated and they all have 10%, they're always (eventually) going to be in front, as it's not compulsory...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:24 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:14 pm
I notice that Ireland, Spain, Belgium, Denmark and Portugal are all now above us in % of population fully vaccinated table.

But I thought we could only achieve our vaccination program at such a pace because we left the EU? Have I missed the exits of those nations?

:conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf: :conf:
Far be it from me to take the government's side, if we have 20% of the population that are never going to get vaccinated and they all have 10%, they're always (eventually) going to be in front, as it's not compulsory...
I mean I don't think we're at that point yet anyway BUT would that hypothetical 20% be the same folks who were urged for years to 'stop listening to experts' by the (now) government?

Hmmm.....

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:35 pm

Quite possibly...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:15 pm

That's a big manifesto pledge to break....

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:40 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:15 pm
That's a big manifesto pledge to break....
https://twitter.com/iliad1orig/status/1 ... 73700?s=20

Indeed.

As ever their appalling handling of Covid is their get out of jail card 'ah but you see because we did so well and spent more money than anyone else and killed nearly more than anyone else we simply have to raise billions'.

Perhaps someone could ask them where the £350M a week from Brexit for the NHS has gone and why I'm having to contribute it out of my NI now.....

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:42 pm

Robin Williams said, in a film ((wrongly attributed to Mark Twain)


“Remember this ladies and gentleman: It’s an old phrase, basically anonymous, politicians are a lot like diapers, they should be changed frequently, and for the same reasons. Remember that next time you vote" :)
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:11 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:40 pm

Perhaps someone could ask them where the £350M a week from Brexit for the NHS has gone and why I'm having to contribute it out of my NI now.....
Well, The King's Fund analysis of HMT data shows that the NHS budget has risen from £136.8 Bn in 2015/16 to £201.7 Bn in 20/21.

That's £1.3 Bn extra every week going into the NHS.

So I'd say that that's where the money's gone (if, of course, it ever actually materialised) , and a shitload more besides, and if we don't pay for it - who does?

I don't for a second believe you're naïve enough not to have understood that we'd be asked to pick up the the tab before too long, whether you, I, or anyone else likes it or not.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:52 am

It's not a tax rise I object to, it is the fact the vast majority of it will be pissed up the wall and line the pockets of shareholders and CEOs of the big service companies for providing next to nothing.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:34 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:11 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:40 pm

Perhaps someone could ask them where the £350M a week from Brexit for the NHS has gone and why I'm having to contribute it out of my NI now.....
Well, The King's Fund analysis of HMT data shows that the NHS budget has risen from £136.8 Bn in 2015/16 to £201.7 Bn in 20/21.

That's £1.3 Bn extra every week going into the NHS.

So I'd say that that's where the money's gone (if, of course, it ever actually materialised) , and a shitload more besides, and if we don't pay for it - who does?

I don't for a second believe you're naïve enough not to have understood that we'd be asked to pick up the the tab before too long, whether you, I, or anyone else likes it or not.
There's a lot to unpack and I'm fairly low today so can't really be bothered. But this is additional money beyond the additional (borrowed funding) to reduce waiting lists and pay for 'social care reform' even though in reality the money isn't fixing anything in social care. So we can really say its extra money to pay for waiting lists.

The point is that analysis shows thus far Brexit has cost us (and Business) more than our total lifetime contributions. So there isn't a 'Brexit dividend' being spent on the NHS - quite the opposite the dividend is a loss that we are racking up borrowing to cover and of course the additional NHS budget you mention.

Yes nobody is naive to think that the NHS and Social care won't require significant additional tax payer funding. And I don't object to the principle, the implementation is awful though. As is of course the fact that the serial liars and disgraces in charge won't ever front up to the situation with any honesty at all.

As noted below I also really strongly object to (for example) paying for 'NHS Track and Trace' which was a disaster and instead of using the existing and very effective local public health network they paid for a private contractor to run it (nothing to do with the NHS) flew in friend of the Tory party Dido Harding and proceeded over one of, if not THE biggest public spending scandals of all time. Labour got hammered for NPfIT that cost £10Bn and did at least deliver SOME things like Electronic Prescriptions. For £37Bn track and trace has only served to line the pockets of Serco and Harding and it seems done some significant damage to our economy along the way on top of the actual spent cost.

And that is but one of a number of examples as to why the NHS is now something that is used as an umbrella to pour money into but so much of it flows away for private profit without accountability.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Prufrock » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:20 pm

That £37bn for track and trace is a hack zombie statistic though. A) that's what was earmarked not spent, and b) the vast vast majority of what has been spent is on things like testing (£10bn) which is broadly fine. Actual t&t itself was a number in the smallish millions. Not nothing, but not a lot really in the scheme of things
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:48 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:20 pm
That £37bn for track and trace is a hack zombie statistic though. A) that's what was earmarked not spent, and b) the vast vast majority of what has been spent is on things like testing (£10bn) which is broadly fine. Actual t&t itself was a number in the smallish millions. Not nothing, but not a lot really in the scheme of things
Not sure those numbers are quite accurate but one has to consider what were Serco and Dido Harding needed for considering we had a perfectly well established, experienced and trained public health network embedded up and down the country at local level who had spent the past two decades planning for such an eventuality?

The total sum of money indeed combines (some) cost of testing and the track and trace BUT the point is that the track and trace operation was meant to bring case numbers down to a level where the testing costs would be reduced and further lockdowns would not be necessary or at least minimised. This failed so badly that they had to add an extra £15Bn in funding to the operation.

One thing PHE had done about a decade ago was model how SK did track and trace in event of an outbreak. SK one of the best examples of how to do this stuff. What did we do? Ignore decades of learned experience and expertise and parachute in Dido Harding with absolutely no relevant experience no experience of health or public health and a commercial track record of absolutely embarrassing failure - and paid her something in the region of £200,000 a year to build a team that ignored decades of planning and established knowledge.


This alone should be more than enough to bring down any government considering the scale of failure, the stench of corruption and the absolute disgusting lie of labelling the service 'NHS Test and Trace' and doubling down on that as it failed and throwing criticism of it back as 'how dare you criticise our NHS'.

That alone would have killed any government from any party apart from one that has existed entirely on lies and deceit and cronyism to the point that even a succession of horrendous failures, and clear nepotism allied to a streak of authoritarianism this country hasn't seen before.

How anyone with any sort of sense can begin to defend them is completely beyond me. We are absolutely no better off than the USA with Trump. In fact its worse because half our population seems to instant forget all that if our Trump does his best Hugh Grant impression so I fear that by the time they wake up it will already be too late (hint: it already is).

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:53 pm

Hancock and his contract awarded muckers, HS2, Boris and his cavewoman (Well everyone except me) Cruella, Priti useless, NHS moaning about funding then seeking 200 grand plus managers to add to the already too many, Russia and China modernising their military at an alarming rate and the senile old wokie champion and his even stupider cackling side kick in the Whitehouse, what could possibly go wrong?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:00 am

Hoboh wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:53 pm
Hancock and his contract awarded muckers, HS2, Boris and his cavewoman (Well everyone except me) Cruella, Priti useless, NHS moaning about funding then seeking 200 grand plus managers to add to the already too many, Russia and China modernising their military at an alarming rate and the senile old wokie champion and his even stupider cackling side kick in the Whitehouse, what could possibly go wrong?
And there was me thinking you voted for 'em :-)

Hope you're keeping well mate.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:26 am

Not too bad thanks. Yep you know why I voted for them and the alternative was even worse, didn't fancy learning Russian and I do occasionally like tall buildings. To be honest interest in football at the moment is at an all time low, didn't mind the wife having a conversation during the Euro games, eek!
I hope you and yours and everyone else stays well, I do pop in from time to time to try and keep up to speed.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:50 am

Hoboh wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:26 am
Not too bad thanks. Yep you know why I voted for them and the alternative was even worse, didn't fancy learning Russian and I do occasionally like tall buildings. To be honest interest in football at the moment is at an all time low, didn't mind the wife having a conversation during the Euro games, eek!
I hope you and yours and everyone else stays well, I do pop in from time to time to try and keep up to speed.
Good to hear your well mate. (That's the niceties out of the way) :-)

Reap what you sow, Hobes, reap what you sow - there's no such thing as a single issue election, you get the whole package.

That includes Hancock cleaning the trough. Boris and his missus getting the decorating done. Priti showing how, now we've got control over our borders, we're fcking useless stopping people crossing them (we probably need a wall down the channel. It's a surefire vote winner).

All down to you mate.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:07 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:26 am
Not too bad thanks. Yep you know why I voted for them and the alternative was even worse, didn't fancy learning Russian and I do occasionally like tall buildings. To be honest interest in football at the moment is at an all time low, didn't mind the wife having a conversation during the Euro games, eek!
I hope you and yours and everyone else stays well, I do pop in from time to time to try and keep up to speed.
You've far more chance of having to learn Russia with the Russian dominated Tory party than any other options.

We're fecked right now.

On the plus side the mighty Wanderers are headed in the right direction! There's always an upside!

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Hoboh » Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:57 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:50 am
Hoboh wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:26 am
Not too bad thanks. Yep you know why I voted for them and the alternative was even worse, didn't fancy learning Russian and I do occasionally like tall buildings. To be honest interest in football at the moment is at an all time low, didn't mind the wife having a conversation during the Euro games, eek!
I hope you and yours and everyone else stays well, I do pop in from time to time to try and keep up to speed.
Good to hear your well mate. (That's the niceties out of the way) :-)

Reap what you sow, Hobes, reap what you sow - there's no such thing as a single issue election, you get the whole package.

That includes Hancock cleaning the trough. Boris and his missus getting the decorating done. Priti showing how, now we've got control over our borders, we're fcking useless stopping people crossing them (we probably need a wall down the channel. It's a surefire vote winner).

All down to you mate.
Hmmmm not too sure about that reckon under the Corbynista's all our vaccine would have been bound for Palestine and the EU, the Taliban war council would be invited to no10, foreign aid would have trebled, and you wouldn't have found space on the return journey via ferry from France and that's for starters.
Yep something's are massively wrong and the pigs snouts are in the trough, they should pay big time. Honestly? Not a politician out there fit for any post in the old days I'd back a revolution but then again there are too many nutcases out there for it to be viable.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:48 pm

If rumours are true those Beijing pork markets sure are gonna be a opening.

EDIT: Yep we be feasting on Chinese pork....oink oink.

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