The Politics Thread

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Who will you be voting for?

Labour
12
39%
Conservatives
12
39%
Liberal Democrats
2
6%
UK Independence Party (UKIP)
0
No votes
Green Party
3
10%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
Planet Hobo
1
3%
 
Total votes: 31

Bruce Rioja
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:19 pm

jimbo wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:48 pm

I wonder when the first minister will resign over this?
Hopefully, Sue Gray's report will leave him with nowhere to turn. My concern is though that he's actually pinning his hopes on it - so who gets to influence Sue Gray? Party members who can see what'll happen if he's not removed, those who live in denial, or Boris?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:23 pm

Self serving bastards to a man/woman. All the ones that are saying "well he's given a sincere apology" are just as culpable on the "judgement" front. Patel, Dorries, Gove, Raab, Javid....all shown they think we're gullible [email protected] They're taking the pi$$.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by nicholaldo » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:28 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:19 pm
jimbo wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:48 pm

I wonder when the first minister will resign over this?
Hopefully, Sue Gray's report will leave him with nowhere to turn. My concern is though that he's actually pinning his hopes on it - so who gets to influence Sue Gray? Party members who can see what'll happen if he's not removed, those who live in denial, or Boris?

The Times are reporting her inquiry will find "no evidence of criminality".

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:19 pm
jimbo wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:48 pm

I wonder when the first minister will resign over this?
Hopefully, Sue Gray's report will leave him with nowhere to turn. My concern is though that he's actually pinning his hopes on it - so who gets to influence Sue Gray? Party members who can see what'll happen if he's not removed, those who live in denial, or Boris?
Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other? I think there's only one group of people it's important to, and if it comes down on their side, I doubt it'll sway many of the electorate...

I'm not a big royalist, but Queenie has just done what I suspect people would say was "the decent thing" in relation to her son. Johnson is the polar opposite.

Meanwhile, Liz Truss, want's us to move on to important things like the economy - right you are Liz, we'll just forget we were all in this together apart from you lot.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other?
I can't think of anyone (beyond the self-serving), and regardless as for who they normally vote, who believes de Pfeffel's position to be anything other than untenable.

If Sue Fray's report does find "no evidence of criminality" and we receive subsequently a resultant, nonchalant 'nothing doing here then, move on' type response I can see people taking to the streets. Really I can.

If he does does do the 'decent thing' and the party appoint say Sunak, then I think they've a slim chance of turning it around before the next GE. Even so, their choice of new leader would be critical. Truss would be a fecking disaster, Raab even worse, and they really don't have much of a pool to pick from (IMO).
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by jimbo » Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:44 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other?
I can't think of anyone (beyond the self-serving), and regardless as for who they normally vote, who believes de Pfeffel's position to be anything other than untenable.

If Sue Fray's report does find "no evidence of criminality" and we receive subsequently a resultant, nonchalant 'nothing doing here then, move on' type response I can see people taking to the streets. Really I can.

If he does does do the 'decent thing' and the party appoint say Sunak, then I think they've a slim chance of turning it around before the next GE. Even so, their choice of new leader would be critical. Truss would be a fecking disaster, Raab even worse, and they really don't have much of a pool to pick from (IMO).
If they pick anyone who has backed Johnson here, then it’s an open goal for labour at the next election to highlight them defending the parties, Owen Paterson and free school meals, the £20 universal credit cut, and ask how they any different to BJ. The public seem to be waking up to the fact that the Conservative government might not actually be on their side.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:14 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other?
I can't think of anyone (beyond the self-serving), and regardless as for who they normally vote, who believes de Pfeffel's position to be anything other than untenable.

If Sue Fray's report does find "no evidence of criminality" and we receive subsequently a resultant, nonchalant 'nothing doing here then, move on' type response I can see people taking to the streets. Really I can.

If he does does do the 'decent thing' and the party appoint say Sunak, then I think they've a slim chance of turning it around before the next GE. Even so, their choice of new leader would be critical. Truss would be a fecking disaster, Raab even worse, and they really don't have much of a pool to pick from (IMO).
I think Labour actually have a similar problem, when you look across the front bench, I think there's just too many, people will feel "don't fancy that one" (as someone running a bit of the Government)...

Quite a lot of reporting that the Conservative "grassroots" like Truss. I'm struggling for any redeeming features to be honest. I could see Sunak holding some sway, but then I suspect it would be a bit of a contest of "grey politics" between he and Starmer.

As for Jimbo's points which are all well made, I think "middle England" isn't noted for worrying about Universal Credit and Free School meals...so the red wall would need to make a significant re-appearance...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:18 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other?
I can't think of anyone (beyond the self-serving), and regardless as for who they normally vote, who believes de Pfeffel's position to be anything other than untenable.

If Sue Fray's report does find "no evidence of criminality" and we receive subsequently a resultant, nonchalant 'nothing doing here then, move on' type response I can see people taking to the streets. Really I can.

If he does does do the 'decent thing' and the party appoint say Sunak, then I think they've a slim chance of turning it around before the next GE. Even so, their choice of new leader would be critical. Truss would be a fecking disaster, Raab even worse, and they really don't have much of a pool to pick from (IMO).
Forget the politics on which we wouldn’t necessarily agree.

But this report. Sue Gray works for Boris. She is investigating to a remit he has limited himself.

The met police have said they will defer to the inquiry report. And there are reports she has already decided there was no breaking of the law..

Now the latter is speculation…but seems likely.

But given the fact the law was broken seems an open and shut case on numerous occasions (as I heard a police officer on the radio explain in exasperation that there is more than enough evidence to go on even without further investigation) how have we got to the point where someone can rather than be subject to police investigation give it to one or their employees to ‘have a look and decide’ before the police get involved?

It’s beyond ludicrous and when I say it’s bordering on Nazi Germany I suppose it sounds hysterical but I’m struggling for another comparison.

How can members of the public have received huge fines for breaking the lockdown laws in very similar circumstances to the parties at number ten that are now a matter of public record, yet those people decide they can appoint an employee of the PM to do a nice little investigation and make it go away?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:22 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:14 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other?
I can't think of anyone (beyond the self-serving), and regardless as for who they normally vote, who believes de Pfeffel's position to be anything other than untenable.

If Sue Fray's report does find "no evidence of criminality" and we receive subsequently a resultant, nonchalant 'nothing doing here then, move on' type response I can see people taking to the streets. Really I can.

If he does does do the 'decent thing' and the party appoint say Sunak, then I think they've a slim chance of turning it around before the next GE. Even so, their choice of new leader would be critical. Truss would be a fecking disaster, Raab even worse, and they really don't have much of a pool to pick from (IMO).
I think Labour actually have a similar problem, when you look across the front bench, I think there's just too many, people will feel "don't fancy that one" (as someone running a bit of the Government)...

Quite a lot of reporting that the Conservative "grassroots" like Truss. I'm struggling for any redeeming features to be honest. I could see Sunak holding some sway, but then I suspect it would be a bit of a contest of "grey politics" between he and Starmer.

As for Jimbo's points which are all well made, I think "middle England" isn't noted for worrying about Universal Credit and Free School meals...so the red wall would need to make a significant re-appearance...
Sunak is popular because he’s a smooth operator and let people spend months at home on reasonable pay. But supposedly did so against his will and seems to be from the Osborne school of economics. So how does that play out in the red wall seats where they were promised levelling up and yet have been further levelled down?

It’s all a bit depressing. I think the Labour front bench is the best it’s been since Blair. I also agree some people won’t fancy it but I do think the last few months have worked for them in that you have a serious Labour front bench now as a contrast to the Tories.

Sunak is obviously their only bet but he’s tainted by the situation and having to back Boris, tainted too by the economic hardships people are facing this year. If the Tories had shifted Boris in autumn last year Sunak would be a shoe in for winning the next GE. But now that’s more up in the air I feel.

Labour have found their footing. It’s far from inspirational but it’s solid. And they are likely to do a deal with others to not campaign too much in the seats they can’t win…so I hear…which changes the game again.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:31 pm

I'm not convinced Labour have found their footing, rather than Conservatives are happily blowing their toes off. Regardless of which, it would take a monumental swing...I'm hearing a lot of "I don't like this" (what Johnson's doing, but very little of "I much prefer that" (what Starmer's doing)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:37 pm

And another one drips out. Head of the COVID task force having a leaving party. You couldn't make it up.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:44 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:31 pm
I'm not convinced Labour have found their footing, rather than Conservatives are happily blowing their toes off. Regardless of which, it would take a monumental swing...I'm hearing a lot of "I don't like this" (what Johnson's doing, but very little of "I much prefer that" (what Starmer's doing)
Their footing in the sense that they have a front bench that is largely competent, media safe and ready to go. Rayner apart. But Prescott was deputy under Blair.

I agree it’s not great or inspirational or many of the things it would ideally be. But the thing is that in the world of identity politics it’s less likely that a Tory voter would vote Labour. The key for Labour is there don’t vote Tory. So yeah. Do I see Labour winning a majority? No. But right now they have a 10 point lead in some polls. It’s somewhat ridiculous that even a ten point lead wouldn’t as the boundaries are give them that majority.

I suppose we are just in a world where even if Labour poll around 40% which gave them a hundred plus majority in 97 now they might still be short. And added to that they polled 40% in 2017 and lost. So yeah I think their ceiling is close to where they are polling now and the Tories just have to lose votes.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by jimbo » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:09 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:22 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:14 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other?
I can't think of anyone (beyond the self-serving), and regardless as for who they normally vote, who believes de Pfeffel's position to be anything other than untenable.

If Sue Fray's report does find "no evidence of criminality" and we receive subsequently a resultant, nonchalant 'nothing doing here then, move on' type response I can see people taking to the streets. Really I can.

If he does does do the 'decent thing' and the party appoint say Sunak, then I think they've a slim chance of turning it around before the next GE. Even so, their choice of new leader would be critical. Truss would be a fecking disaster, Raab even worse, and they really don't have much of a pool to pick from (IMO).
I think Labour actually have a similar problem, when you look across the front bench, I think there's just too many, people will feel "don't fancy that one" (as someone running a bit of the Government)...

Quite a lot of reporting that the Conservative "grassroots" like Truss. I'm struggling for any redeeming features to be honest. I could see Sunak holding some sway, but then I suspect it would be a bit of a contest of "grey politics" between he and Starmer.

As for Jimbo's points which are all well made, I think "middle England" isn't noted for worrying about Universal Credit and Free School meals...so the red wall would need to make a significant re-appearance...
Sunak is popular because he’s a smooth operator and let people spend months at home on reasonable pay. But supposedly did so against his will and seems to be from the Osborne school of economics. So how does that play out in the red wall seats where they were promised levelling up and yet have been further levelled down?

It’s all a bit depressing. I think the Labour front bench is the best it’s been since Blair. I also agree some people won’t fancy it but I do think the last few months have worked for them in that you have a serious Labour front bench now as a contrast to the Tories.

Sunak is obviously their only bet but he’s tainted by the situation and having to back Boris, tainted too by the economic hardships people are facing this year. If the Tories had shifted Boris in autumn last year Sunak would be a shoe in for winning the next GE. But now that’s more up in the air I feel.

Labour have found their footing. It’s far from inspirational but it’s solid. And they are likely to do a deal with others to not campaign too much in the seats they can’t win…so I hear…which changes the game again.
Sunak is also the wealthiest Mp ever and his wife’s family are billionaires. Again an easy target for labour when someone so wealthy is gladly snipping a few pounds off universal credit here and there, and letting heating bills double. Focus on that and red wall Tory votes will evaporate.

I think labour just need to sit back at the moment, then suddenly appear as credible, professional and on the side of the people. Easier said than done, and I’m not 100% sure they can do it as well as previous labour front benches, but we can hope.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by jimbo » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:19 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:18 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other?
I can't think of anyone (beyond the self-serving), and regardless as for who they normally vote, who believes de Pfeffel's position to be anything other than untenable.

If Sue Fray's report does find "no evidence of criminality" and we receive subsequently a resultant, nonchalant 'nothing doing here then, move on' type response I can see people taking to the streets. Really I can.

If he does does do the 'decent thing' and the party appoint say Sunak, then I think they've a slim chance of turning it around before the next GE. Even so, their choice of new leader would be critical. Truss would be a fecking disaster, Raab even worse, and they really don't have much of a pool to pick from (IMO).
Forget the politics on which we wouldn’t necessarily agree.

But this report. Sue Gray works for Boris. She is investigating to a remit he has limited himself.

The met police have said they will defer to the inquiry report. And there are reports she has already decided there was no breaking of the law..

Now the latter is speculation…but seems likely.

But given the fact the law was broken seems an open and shut case on numerous occasions (as I heard a police officer on the radio explain in exasperation that there is more than enough evidence to go on even without further investigation) how have we got to the point where someone can rather than be subject to police investigation give it to one or their employees to ‘have a look and decide’ before the police get involved?

It’s beyond ludicrous and when I say it’s bordering on Nazi Germany I suppose it sounds hysterical but I’m struggling for another comparison.

How can members of the public have received huge fines for breaking the lockdown laws in very similar circumstances to the parties at number ten that are now a matter of public record, yet those people decide they can appoint an employee of the PM to do a nice little investigation and make it go away?
I think the Met police thing is a tricky one. I’d love them to be prosecuted, but if they do have a policy of not investigated historic covid breaches (which is quite sensible given there will be millions of cases out there) then if they chose to investigate and prosecute this one, they would be doing so only because of who is involved. Even though they are awful c*nts, thats not what the basis of law should be.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:26 pm

jimbo wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:18 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other?
I can't think of anyone (beyond the self-serving), and regardless as for who they normally vote, who believes de Pfeffel's position to be anything other than untenable.

If Sue Fray's report does find "no evidence of criminality" and we receive subsequently a resultant, nonchalant 'nothing doing here then, move on' type response I can see people taking to the streets. Really I can.

If he does does do the 'decent thing' and the party appoint say Sunak, then I think they've a slim chance of turning it around before the next GE. Even so, their choice of new leader would be critical. Truss would be a fecking disaster, Raab even worse, and they really don't have much of a pool to pick from (IMO).
Forget the politics on which we wouldn’t necessarily agree.

But this report. Sue Gray works for Boris. She is investigating to a remit he has limited himself.

The met police have said they will defer to the inquiry report. And there are reports she has already decided there was no breaking of the law..

Now the latter is speculation…but seems likely.

But given the fact the law was broken seems an open and shut case on numerous occasions (as I heard a police officer on the radio explain in exasperation that there is more than enough evidence to go on even without further investigation) how have we got to the point where someone can rather than be subject to police investigation give it to one or their employees to ‘have a look and decide’ before the police get involved?

It’s beyond ludicrous and when I say it’s bordering on Nazi Germany I suppose it sounds hysterical but I’m struggling for another comparison.

How can members of the public have received huge fines for breaking the lockdown laws in very similar circumstances to the parties at number ten that are now a matter of public record, yet those people decide they can appoint an employee of the PM to do a nice little investigation and make it go away?
I think the Met police thing is a tricky one. I’d love them to be prosecuted, but if they do have a policy of not investigated historic covid breaches (which is quite sensible given there will be millions of cases out there) then if they chose to investigate and prosecute this one, they would be doing so only because of who is involved. Even though they are awful c*nts, thats not what the basis of law should be.
My objection is twofold.

1) Their decision on what to investigate or not is theirs. And isn’t ruled by precedent.

2) They are now saying they will investigate if the internal investigation suggests there might be unlawful events that took place. So they aren’t saying it’s not possible because it’s historical. They are saying ‘well let your guys have a go first’. Who else is afforded that luxury?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by KeyserSoze » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:59 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

Question, Brucie - do you think Sue Gray's report will sway the electorate one way or t'other?
I can't think of anyone (beyond the self-serving), and regardless as for who they normally vote, who believes de Pfeffel's position to be anything other than untenable.

If Sue Fray's report does find "no evidence of criminality" and we receive subsequently a resultant, nonchalant 'nothing doing here then, move on' type response I can see people taking to the streets. Really I can.

If he does does do the 'decent thing' and the party appoint say Sunak, then I think they've a slim chance of turning it around before the next GE. Even so, their choice of new leader would be critical. Truss would be a fecking disaster, Raab even worse, and they really don't have much of a pool to pick from (IMO).
Don't think there is a chance Johnson does the decent thing, nor do I think the report will indict criminality; I don't think it is her remit to make that call. But I do think following that it'll be in the hands of the tory mps to chop off the gangrenous leg; and that they will do it. Out of self preservation
Nero fiddles while Gordon Burns.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by KeyserSoze » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:03 pm

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-25951853

Sue gray report, no criminalit inferred, tories pop him off the plank.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:59 am

Starmer's on TV doing himself no favours.
Using terms such as "Industrial scale parties" is absolutely cringeworthy, embarrassing, but also, completely unnecessary.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Worthy4England » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:27 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:59 am
Starmer's on TV doing himself no favours.
Using terms such as "Industrial scale parties" is absolutely cringeworthy, embarrassing, but also, completely unnecessary.
Aye, coz he looks like the sort that would be able to identify an industrial scale party!

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:07 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:59 am
Starmer's on TV doing himself no favours.
Using terms such as "Industrial scale parties" is absolutely cringeworthy, embarrassing, but also, completely unnecessary.
He was very good in parliament at PMQs and very not so good in that interview. It’s his Achilles heel. He just doesn’t interview well. However, the laughable attempts to claim standing with a bottle in your hand between meetings is the same as a series of pre arranged parties that you then lied about weren’t any better than his performance.

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