2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:21 am

Can we sort out the transmission fees whilst we're fixing stuff. We're producing half the energy up here and paying nearly 20 times over south of the border to transmit the energy. I get the network costs more to maintain up here, but surely locally produced energy should be cheaper than imported when it isn't more costly to produce.

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Hoboh » Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:40 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:14 am
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:22 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:48 pm
TBF mate - we subsidise carbon based energy by a whole fcuking chunk more...
:D
So that makes it right then?
No. Just a more nuanced conversation around not being reliant on either in isolation. We were told privatization was the answer to many economic ills. I'm struggling to find much evidence only that the taxpayer takes the downsides and the shareholder retains the upsides. If that isn't a state intervention to prop up the bullshit, dunno what is.

The reality is, many of UK pension funds are probably invested in the prop-ups so any unwind would probably make those suceptible too.

At least the NHS is the jewel in the crown! Oh.

Interesting that your mates also suggested unwinding QE. It does feel that some things need breaking to get some fixes. You noticed you don't hear the phrase "trickle down" much these days? That's coz it doesn't.
It doesn't trickle down these days mate, it p*sses down, dry so far today.

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Hoboh » Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:41 am

BTW, who are my mates exactly? Just curious

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:09 am

Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:41 am
BTW, who are my mates exactly? Just curious
IIRC, I think you said you might have been favouring Reform

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:30 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:14 am
[quote=Hoboh post_id=1179703 time=1718090563

At least the NHS is the jewel in the crown! Oh.
In lieu of no football, might as well join the political rant. :)

Solution, no idea. The N.H.S.is the greatest gift to humanity we have; why it is in danger doesn't need University education to figure out. The Eastern " Promised Land " of Biblical history has ben replaced in the minds of the masses by by the Western "U.K." The promoters of the fairy tale ' the boat-trip to Paradise" merchants and their thieving ilk, are not all the problem, the real rot is in the power hungry rulers of lands where the poor and uneducated are not taught how to improve their own houses and lifestyles by imitation, but by being fed a real-life "Chronicals of Narnia" fantasy that the answer lies in that font of apology where blame for their plight and compensation and where "what is owed to them" is waiting on a few hours boat trip across the English Channel. This might be a very simple version of explanation, but basically, it's the bones.

Putting in in even simpler words: There are too many beaks dipping in the trough. "The chances of anything coming from ....add name of next invasion...are a million to one he said"...but still they come.. The "All creatures great and small" fantasy world of yesteryear where a phone call could set about solving the problems of ills in man and beast, are heading for ancient history. The beleaguered N.H.S is but one whipping boy for it all.

None of this is a total answer, but it might help if the world were told that what happened two hundred years or so ago is "no fault of us today and we take no blame for ancestral and historical problems. The compensation department is closed, you'd better believe it."

Amen. ae:)
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:49 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:30 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:14 am
[quote=Hoboh post_id=1179703 time=1718090563

At least the NHS is the jewel in the crown! Oh.
In lieu of no football, might as well join the political rant. :)

Solution, no idea. The N.H.S.is the greatest gift to humanity we have; why it is in danger doesn't need University education to figure out. The Eastern " Promised Land " of Biblical history has ben replaced in the minds of the masses by by the Western "U.K." The promoters of the fairy tale ' the boat-trip to Paradise" merchants and their thieving ilk, are not all the problem, the real rot is in the power hungry rulers of lands where the poor and uneducated are not taught how to improve their own houses and lifestyles by imitation, but by being fed a real-life "Chronicals of Narnia" fantasy that the answer lies in that font of apology where blame for their plight and compensation and where "what is owed to them" is waiting on a few hours boat trip across the English Channel. This might be a very simple version of explanation, but basically, it's the bones.

Putting in in even simpler words: There are too many beaks dipping in the trough. "The chances of anything coming from ....add name of next invasion...are a million to one he said"...but still they come.. The "All creatures great and small" fantasy world of yesteryear where a phone call could set about solving the problems of ills in man and beast, are heading for ancient history. The beleaguered N.H.S is but one whipping boy for it all.

None of this is a total answer, but it might help if the world were told that what happened two hundred years or so ago is "no fault of us today and we take no blame for ancestral and historical problems. The compensation department is closed, you'd better believe it."

Amen. ae:)
I'm going to try and paraphrase, to see if I've got this one understood.

The problems with the NHS is something to do with historical compo claims that no bugger has paid out on? A relatively small number of people illegally crossing on boats, outweighs the 1.4m VISA's legally issued? Dunno mate - not adding up for me...

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:12 pm

i was of the understanding that the problems with N.H.S related to staff shortage compared to an ever growing list of patients awaiting attention. The rest goes far beyond hospital waiting rooms and begins in lands far away. . I thought I'd explained that ?

It's all in my opinion of course.
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:16 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:12 pm
i was of the understanding that the problems with N.H.S related to staff shortage compared to an ever growing list of patients awaiting attention. The rest goes far beyond hospital waiting rooms and begins in lands far away. . I thought I'd explained that ?

It's all in my opinion of course.
It's sometimes tricky to understand between, the book quotes, the message. In simple terms, are you saying we need higher immigration to resolve the backlog?

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:37 pm

Lovely little graphic showing the result of trusting the Torys with migration and what taking back control means...


netmigration.jpg
netmigration.jpg (75.33 KiB) Viewed 306 times

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Prufrock » Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:35 pm

Social care is fecked. Do you want to clean up piss and shit, work horrible hours, and get lamped by a demented old fella, or get paid 50p an hour less for flexible hours, little responsibility and tidy up some clothes.

Which leaves you with:

A) mass immigration to cover those gaps with people who are willing to do the work,
B) tax increases to pay for increased wages, or
C) neither, and so horrendous conditions for older people

We've fairly clearly made our choice, and it's c). Lots of people whine that it shouldn't be a) but they very much aren't willing to put their hand in their pocket to make it b).

So it's pay as you go and hope for the best.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:56 am

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:35 pm
Social care is fecked. Do you want to clean up piss and shit, work horrible hours, and get lamped by a demented old fella, or get paid 50p an hour less for flexible hours, little responsibility and tidy up some clothes.

Which leaves you with:

A) mass immigration to cover those gaps with people who are willing to do the work,
B) tax increases to pay for increased wages, or
C) neither, and so horrendous conditions for older people

We've fairly clearly made our choice, and it's c). Lots of people whine that it shouldn't be a) but they very much aren't willing to put their hand in their pocket to make it b).

So it's pay as you go and hope for the best.
I think even if we paid people more the bottom line is few want to do it. It’s not going to carry an executive salary so the care jobs are still in competition with supermarket and retail roles or even warehouse or delivery roles. All of which are more popular than care work. Major societal changes mean that there are a plethora of jobs available that draw people who might have gone into the care sector away.


A social care visa sorts it in the short term but I don’t know if that is really a sustainable long term solution. Robots are maybe the long term answer. Seriously.

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:23 am

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:35 pm
Social care is fecked. Do you want to clean up piss and shit, work horrible hours, and get lamped by a demented old fella, or get paid 50p an hour less for flexible hours, little responsibility and tidy up some clothes.

Which leaves you with:

A) mass immigration to cover those gaps with people who are willing to do the work,
B) tax increases to pay for increased wages, or
C) neither, and so horrendous conditions for older people

We've fairly clearly made our choice, and it's c). Lots of people whine that it shouldn't be a) but they very much aren't willing to put their hand in their pocket to make it b).

So it's pay as you go and hope for the best.
It is fecked, but before we look at solutions, there's a bit more to be understood about the "problem."

The King Fund did some research and the largest group by expenditure is 18-64 age group requiring learning disability support...(the next largest is >65 requiring physical support). That big group under 64, includes folks with ADHD for example, which seems to be a plague on youth. That's probably not where most folks imagine social care budget is going.

Our social care budget is relatively small in comparison to total heathcare spending and diddly in comparison to total UK expenditre. It's about 25% of the amount we pay in fcking debt interest on our £2trn debt, whilst the government shouts "it's your fault taxpayer" now we've had your tax, how about you give us more...

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:53 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:23 am
Prufrock wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:35 pm
Social care is fecked. Do you want to clean up piss and shit, work horrible hours, and get lamped by a demented old fella, or get paid 50p an hour less for flexible hours, little responsibility and tidy up some clothes.

Which leaves you with:

A) mass immigration to cover those gaps with people who are willing to do the work,
B) tax increases to pay for increased wages, or
C) neither, and so horrendous conditions for older people

We've fairly clearly made our choice, and it's c). Lots of people whine that it shouldn't be a) but they very much aren't willing to put their hand in their pocket to make it b).

So it's pay as you go and hope for the best.
It is fecked, but before we look at solutions, there's a bit more to be understood about the "problem."

The King Fund did some research and the largest group by expenditure is 18-64 age group requiring learning disability support...(the next largest is >65 requiring physical support). That big group under 64, includes folks with ADHD for example, which seems to be a plague on youth. That's probably not where most folks imagine social care budget is going.

Our social care budget is relatively small in comparison to total heathcare spending and diddly in comparison to total UK expenditre. It's about 25% of the amount we pay in fcking debt interest on our £2trn debt, whilst the government shouts "it's your fault taxpayer" now we've had your tax, how about you give us more...
Its about 10% the size of the health budget. Which is a complete false economy. But of course social care is broken, maybe beyond repair, because of....well....the P word!

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Hoboh » Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:58 pm

Reading through the comments, I seriously doubt many are that far away from a general consensus as to the wrongs that need righting.

Seriously though, does anyone think that any of the donkeys old parties will be prepared for the graft and probable upset this would entail to achieve the above?
Society is getting so divided that unless we have some sort of hard-core, no nonsense government with the drive to take on, and out, all the obstacles in the way. No matter how you paint it, decline will continue.

Personally I'm sick to the back teeth of the way politics has sunk to depths of the deepest oceans and it's just getting worse when some stoop only to represent fractions of their electorate.

Do you really have faith in any of them?

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:08 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:58 pm
Reading through the comments, I seriously doubt many are that far away from a general consensus as to the wrongs that need righting.

Seriously though, does anyone think that any of the donkeys old parties will be prepared for the graft and probable upset this would entail to achieve the above?
Society is getting so divided that unless we have some sort of hard-core, no nonsense government with the drive to take on, and out, all the obstacles in the way. No matter how you paint it, decline will continue.

Personally I'm sick to the back teeth of the way politics has sunk to depths of the deepest oceans and it's just getting worse when some stoop only to represent fractions of their electorate.

Do you really have faith in any of them?
I trust populists who shout about how everything is broken yet have no answers less than I trust any other politicians.

It’s easy to stir hatred and after the last 14 years of failure to stand there and say ‘well I’ve got all the answers’ without offering any alongside a slurry of offensive dog whistles.

The people who forced the shit sandwich of Brexit down everyone’s throats are the last, very very last people we should ever take any notice of.

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Hoboh » Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:27 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:08 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:58 pm
Reading through the comments, I seriously doubt many are that far away from a general consensus as to the wrongs that need righting.

Seriously though, does anyone think that any of the donkeys old parties will be prepared for the graft and probable upset this would entail to achieve the above?
Society is getting so divided that unless we have some sort of hard-core, no nonsense government with the drive to take on, and out, all the obstacles in the way. No matter how you paint it, decline will continue.

Personally I'm sick to the back teeth of the way politics has sunk to depths of the deepest oceans and it's just getting worse when some stoop only to represent fractions of their electorate.

Do you really have faith in any of them?
I trust populists who shout about how everything is broken yet have no answers less than I trust any other politicians.

It’s easy to stir hatred and after the last 14 years of failure to stand there and say ‘well I’ve got all the answers’ without offering any alongside a slurry of offensive dog whistles.

The people who forced the shit sandwich of Brexit down everyone’s throats are the last, very very last people we should ever take any notice of.
Feckin hell put your bloody kleenex away for once.
Tell me, how great is your nannies EU these days when slowly they are moving from Merkels everybody welcome and some of their economics is bordering on collapse.
Oh, I get it, you have to accept a little more trouble going on holiday, oh dear!
You haven't got any answers either so stop trying to be smart little Trotsky, I guess you'd fall in with that stupid Grandma of the 12yo knife killer telling us all how he was so sweet and innocent and misunderstood.
Let's look who goes out damaging property, causing disruption to peoples lives and hounding people on social media, yeah it's your leftie pals mate, exactly the ones we should at best ignore.

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:36 pm

^^I rest my case!

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:00 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:27 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:08 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:58 pm
Reading through the comments, I seriously doubt many are that far away from a general consensus as to the wrongs that need righting.

Seriously though, does anyone think that any of the donkeys old parties will be prepared for the graft and probable upset this would entail to achieve the above?
Society is getting so divided that unless we have some sort of hard-core, no nonsense government with the drive to take on, and out, all the obstacles in the way. No matter how you paint it, decline will continue.

Personally I'm sick to the back teeth of the way politics has sunk to depths of the deepest oceans and it's just getting worse when some stoop only to represent fractions of their electorate.

Do you really have faith in any of them?
I trust populists who shout about how everything is broken yet have no answers less than I trust any other politicians.

It’s easy to stir hatred and after the last 14 years of failure to stand there and say ‘well I’ve got all the answers’ without offering any alongside a slurry of offensive dog whistles.

The people who forced the shit sandwich of Brexit down everyone’s throats are the last, very very last people we should ever take any notice of.
Feckin hell put your bloody kleenex away for once.
Tell me, how great is your nannies EU these days when slowly they are moving from Merkels everybody welcome and some of their economics is bordering on collapse.
Oh, I get it, you have to accept a little more trouble going on holiday, oh dear!
You haven't got any answers either so stop trying to be smart little Trotsky, I guess you'd fall in with that stupid Grandma of the 12yo knife killer telling us all how he was so sweet and innocent and misunderstood.
Let's look who goes out damaging property, causing disruption to peoples lives and hounding people on social media, yeah it's your leftie pals mate, exactly the ones we should at best ignore.
Conversely to the EU, we've done a stellar job if not accepting everybody as evidenced by the record levels of immigration

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Hoboh » Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:02 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:36 pm
^^I rest my case!
Unlike you,

I don't do sly digs, comrade.

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Re: 2024, hoodwink and bamboozle the public

Post by Hoboh » Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:18 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:00 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:27 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:08 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:58 pm
Reading through the comments, I seriously doubt many are that far away from a general consensus as to the wrongs that need righting.

Seriously though, does anyone think that any of the donkeys old parties will be prepared for the graft and probable upset this would entail to achieve the above?
Society is getting so divided that unless we have some sort of hard-core, no nonsense government with the drive to take on, and out, all the obstacles in the way. No matter how you paint it, decline will continue.

Personally I'm sick to the back teeth of the way politics has sunk to depths of the deepest oceans and it's just getting worse when some stoop only to represent fractions of their electorate.

Do you really have faith in any of them?
I trust populists who shout about how everything is broken yet have no answers less than I trust any other politicians.

It’s easy to stir hatred and after the last 14 years of failure to stand there and say ‘well I’ve got all the answers’ without offering any alongside a slurry of offensive dog whistles.

The people who forced the shit sandwich of Brexit down everyone’s throats are the last, very very last people we should ever take any notice of.
Feckin hell put your bloody kleenex away for once.
Tell me, how great is your nannies EU these days when slowly they are moving from Merkels everybody welcome and some of their economics is bordering on collapse.
Oh, I get it, you have to accept a little more trouble going on holiday, oh dear!
You haven't got any answers either so stop trying to be smart little Trotsky, I guess you'd fall in with that stupid Grandma of the 12yo knife killer telling us all how he was so sweet and innocent and misunderstood.
Let's look who goes out damaging property, causing disruption to peoples lives and hounding people on social media, yeah it's your leftie pals mate, exactly the ones we should at best ignore.
Conversely to the EU, we've done a stellar job if not accepting everybody as evidenced by the record levels of immigration
Oh we've had more than our fair share, I totally agree hence being peed off with those who supposedly represent us.
It's really amusing labour's answer seems to be setting up a border force to deal with traffickers who in the main are overseas.
Some people seem to think sending 'kids' through education, sometimes into their mid twenties is the answer to a brilliantly educated workforce without realising AI will put the kibosh on that in the next decade or so. Would I employ a team of uni educated youth to program things when AI will do it 24/7 without breaks or a need for a safespace? No.
A small glimpse of the 'green' sustainable future might be when the bin waggons turn up, record your address, weigh your bin then charge you accordingly.
Won't happen? We'll see.
Not naming names but some middle-class champagne socialists will be the first to moan when they realise they are the targets because all the wealthy have done one as happen last time labour targeted them.
The point I am making that the comrades dislike is it is time for a completely new approach, not one dictated by the unions.

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