The Politics Thread

[Hoboh]

Sure as hell, I'm confused. What are you rattling at?

Really? So you cannot see that the unions and their constant industrial action and anti anything convinced many the only way was to smash them and introduce privatisation? The parts the unions still have a shout in are on the verge of being the source of further government debts and more 'black holes'.
Not defending privatisation entirely, soewas clearly wrong but the unions lay the foundations for failure.

[Worthy4England]

Sure as hell, I'm confused. What are you rattling at?

Really? So you cannot see that the unions and their constant industrial action and anti anything convinced many the only way was to smash them and introduce privatisation? The parts the unions still have a shout in are on the verge of being the source of further government debts and more 'black holes'.
Not defending privatisation entirely, soewas clearly wrong but the unions lay the foundations for failure.

It's not what I can see or can't see. What I was trying to work out is what you were trying to say in your post(s) which as far as I know, didn't involve any unions.

I'm not interested in how many were led to be convinced of something. The internet misses the point that "a lot of people being convinced of something, doesn't mean it's correct."

I like it when people become "convinced" - they become convinced the world's better without unions, I'm ok with that, they become convinced that everything will get better after Brexit and a cuppa, I'm ok with that too. When they con(vince) themselves that the problems we face now are something to do with Unions from 40 years ago (talking about private rather than public), I'm ok with that too, I just think they wouldn't recognise themselves if you gave them a mirror. Maybe they need to go and dig up some facts that are less than 40 year old - I mean the main privatisations were all done by 1990. That's quarter of a century ago.

[Hoboh]

So, let's see, social media via Internet was ripe for people thinking that the seventies and eighties to be more pedantic, for convincing people about union problems, right, of course.
Look, the problems industry and companies at large was down to the unions and public sector ownership, tea and sandwiches at no 10 for example. This CONVINCED an awful lot of folk that unions milking the public purse was bad and privatised companies good hence the support for Thatcher with the exception of Militant and, yes, the unions.
Privatised companies should have been the better option to stop leeching the public purse but we all know greed got in the way, greed on a virtually global poorly regulated scale coupled with concocted financial system that favoured the few, chased by many, leading to massive inequality in society, sort of, out the pan into the fire.
In the world we live in today with the threat of war and growing inequality in the country, we cannot afford looking after half the world, paying for a treat everything for free NHS and chucking huge sums of cash at some scientists cash cows.
Oh, and by the way, I seriously doubt all these 29% resident doctors will find highly paid jobs overseas, maybe they should start delivering Amazon parcels seeing they think that pays more!
I love the way you wailers still bang on about Brexit, wanting to hang on to every vestige of yet another failed social pipe dream.

[Worthy4England]

So, let's see, social media via Internet was ripe for people thinking that the seventies and eighties to be more pedantic, for convincing people about union problems, right, of course.
Look, the problems industry and companies at large was down to the unions and public sector ownership, tea and sandwiches at no 10 for example. This CONVINCED an awful lot of folk that unions milking the public purse was bad and privatised companies good hence the support for Thatcher with the exception of Militant and, yes, the unions.
Privatised companies should have been the better option to stop leeching the public purse but we all know greed got in the way, greed on a virtually global poorly regulated scale coupled with concocted financial system that favoured the few, chased by many, leading to massive inequality in society, sort of, out the pan into the fire.
In the world we live in today with the threat of war and growing inequality in the country, we cannot afford looking after half the world, paying for a treat everything for free NHS and chucking huge sums of cash at some scientists cash cows.
Oh, and by the way, I seriously doubt all these 29% resident doctors will find highly paid jobs overseas, maybe they should start delivering Amazon parcels seeing they think that pays more!
I love the way you wailers still bang on about Brexit, wanting to hang on to every vestige of yet another failed social pipe dream.

I think "beer" and sandwiches might have been the oft misquoted reference - that's was from the 60's and recanted some time in the 70's, if memory serves. 50-60 years back. More than a lifetime for some.

It is far too simplistic to put the problems of industry and companies at large "down to the unions," even though that's a particular dragon for you - on some issues they were right and others they were wrong - where you sit on that scale, is down to what your views were half a century ago. Our GDP growth was higher in the 70's than it was in the 2010's - with most stuff having been privatised for the best part of 35 years or more. That was with real wage growth generally being above 5% in the 70's, it's been negative since the bankers ran off with the economy in 2008.

Who could have possibly guessed, all those years ago that the neo-liberal financial system of which Reagan and Thatcher would be characterised as leading exponents, would lead to the inequality we're now seeing, with a few financially engineered booms/busts in the 80's?

I love the way you gammons are still stuck in black and white, as you cling ever more precariously to the notion that free markets will solve the world and that Brexit will do likewise. I can still see you bubbling up the next cunning plan - it will also fail - to add to all the other notions you thought might work and haven't.

[BWFC_Insane]

So, let's see, social media via Internet was ripe for people thinking that the seventies and eighties to be more pedantic, for convincing people about union problems, right, of course.
Look, the problems industry and companies at large was down to the unions and public sector ownership, tea and sandwiches at no 10 for example. This CONVINCED an awful lot of folk that unions milking the public purse was bad and privatised companies good hence the support for Thatcher with the exception of Militant and, yes, the unions.
Privatised companies should have been the better option to stop leeching the public purse but we all know greed got in the way, greed on a virtually global poorly regulated scale coupled with concocted financial system that favoured the few, chased by many, leading to massive inequality in society, sort of, out the pan into the fire.
In the world we live in today with the threat of war and growing inequality in the country, we cannot afford looking after half the world, paying for a treat everything for free NHS and chucking huge sums of cash at some scientists cash cows.
Oh, and by the way, I seriously doubt all these 29% resident doctors will find highly paid jobs overseas, maybe they should start delivering Amazon parcels seeing they think that pays more!
I love the way you wailers still bang on about Brexit, wanting to hang on to every vestige of yet another failed social pipe dream.

What you are basically arguing here is that the unions being smashed has led to the inequality we see in society today which is a simplistic take but certainly part of the story.

But in order to try and rationalise your incoherent previous takes you have to pretend that actually the unions were at fault for being smashed.

You seem very good at understanding the issues but putting your finger on the cause seems more difficult.

Brexit has harmed our economy, and delivered nothing of use. Accept it that like Thatcherism and smashing unions your opinion has ultimately been proven wrong and the impacts negative. There is no escaping it.

[Hoboh]

So, let's see, social media via Internet was ripe for people thinking that the seventies and eighties to be more pedantic, for convincing people about union problems, right, of course.
Look, the problems industry and companies at large was down to the unions and public sector ownership, tea and sandwiches at no 10 for example. This CONVINCED an awful lot of folk that unions milking the public purse was bad and privatised companies good hence the support for Thatcher with the exception of Militant and, yes, the unions.
Privatised companies should have been the better option to stop leeching the public purse but we all know greed got in the way, greed on a virtually global poorly regulated scale coupled with concocted financial system that favoured the few, chased by many, leading to massive inequality in society, sort of, out the pan into the fire.
In the world we live in today with the threat of war and growing inequality in the country, we cannot afford looking after half the world, paying for a treat everything for free NHS and chucking huge sums of cash at some scientists cash cows.
Oh, and by the way, I seriously doubt all these 29% resident doctors will find highly paid jobs overseas, maybe they should start delivering Amazon parcels seeing they think that pays more!
I love the way you wailers still bang on about Brexit, wanting to hang on to every vestige of yet another failed social pipe dream.

I think "beer" and sandwiches might have been the oft misquoted reference - that's was from the 60's and recanted some time in the 70's, if memory serves. 50-60 years back. More than a lifetime for some.

It is far too simplistic to put the problems of industry and companies at large "down to the unions," even though that's a particular dragon for you - on some issues they were right and others they were wrong - where you sit on that scale, is down to what your views were half a century ago. Our GDP growth was higher in the 70's than it was in the 2010's - with most stuff having been privatised for the best part of 35 years or more. That was with real wage growth generally being above 5% in the 70's, it's been negative since the bankers ran off with the economy in 2008.

Who could have possibly guessed, all those years ago that the neo-liberal financial system of which Reagan and Thatcher would be characterised as leading exponents, would lead to the inequality we're now seeing, with a few financially engineered booms/busts in the 80's?

I love the way you gammons are still stuck in black and white, as you cling ever more precariously to the notion that free markets will solve the world and that Brexit will do likewise. I can still see you bubbling up the next cunning plan - it will also fail - to add to all the other notions you thought might work and haven't.

Try Specsavers mate, try as I might I've still failed to find where exactly I professed total support for free markets, if I did I was perhaps a little Ham fisted.
My bubbling cunning plan? OMFG, rich from a half hearted socialist with a glass of champagne in his hand whilst pretending he's still 'one of the lads'.
Weep on sunshine.

[Worthy4England]

"...total support for free markets, if I did it was perhaps a little ham fisted..."

So you did, there's just that little 5% of didn't and are now bashing everyone else for your own guilt, including those who said this is going to end in a lot of tears. A true sociopath.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

A wee summary of things...

• The 'system is fecked and only works for the wealthy

• Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems are offering more of the same, whilst tinkering around the edges

• Reform are offering a more xenophobic/racist version of what the Tories are

• Lots of folk want to break the system and are voting/intending to vote for Reform who are offering the status quo

I predict shit is going to get worse...a lot worse. I also predict we'll still be having the same conversation about this for years to come.

[Worthy4England]

A wee summary of things...

• The 'system is fecked and only works for the wealthy

• Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems are offering more of the same, whilst tinkering around the edges

• Reform are offering a more xenophobic/racist version of what the Tories are

• Lots of folk want to break the system and are voting/intending to vote for Reform who are offering the status quo

I predict shit is going to get worse...a lot worse. I also predict we'll still be having the same conversation about this for years to come.

All of the above.

I might actually enjoy the no plan Reform government, nearly as much as the no plan Brexit.

[Hoboh]

A wee summary of things...

• The 'system is fecked and only works for the wealthy

• Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems are offering more of the same, whilst tinkering around the edges

• Reform are offering a more xenophobic/racist version of what the Tories are

• Lots of folk want to break the system and are voting/intending to vote for Reform who are offering the status quo

I predict shit is going to get worse...a lot worse. I also predict we'll still be having the same conversation about this for years to come.

All of the above.

I might actually enjoy the no plan Reform government, nearly as much as the no plan Brexit.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

A wee summary of things...

• The 'system is fecked and only works for the wealthy

• Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems are offering more of the same, whilst tinkering around the edges

• Reform are offering a more xenophobic/racist version of what the Tories are

• Lots of folk want to break the system and are voting/intending to vote for Reform who are offering the status quo

I predict shit is going to get worse...a lot worse. I also predict we'll still be having the same conversation about this for years to come.

All of the above.

I might actually enjoy the no plan Reform government, nearly as much as the no plan Brexit.

I reckon reform would have a big beautiful bill ready within months of PM Nige being installed in The Red Lion...I mean 10 Downing Street.

[Worthy4England]

A wee summary of things...

• The 'system is fecked and only works for the wealthy

• Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems are offering more of the same, whilst tinkering around the edges

• Reform are offering a more xenophobic/racist version of what the Tories are

• Lots of folk want to break the system and are voting/intending to vote for Reform who are offering the status quo

I predict shit is going to get worse...a lot worse. I also predict we'll still be having the same conversation about this for years to come.

All of the above.

I might actually enjoy the no plan Reform government, nearly as much as the no plan Brexit.

Why would I spit the dummy, as I sit here supping my champagne, laughing at you capitalists not understanding how capitalism works and getting it wrong again from the sunlit uplands of Worthy Towers?

[BWFC_Insane]

A wee summary of things...

• The 'system is fecked and only works for the wealthy

• Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems are offering more of the same, whilst tinkering around the edges

• Reform are offering a more xenophobic/racist version of what the Tories are

• Lots of folk want to break the system and are voting/intending to vote for Reform who are offering the status quo

I predict shit is going to get worse...a lot worse. I also predict we'll still be having the same conversation about this for years to come.

I’d add a bullet - lots of politicians want to break or change the system but when you ask how don’t actually have a clue.

[Worthy4England]

For Hoboh's benefit, we need to return the means of production to the proletariat, brother!

[Hoboh]

A wee summary of things...

• The 'system is fecked and only works for the wealthy

• Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems are offering more of the same, whilst tinkering around the edges

• Reform are offering a more xenophobic/racist version of what the Tories are

• Lots of folk want to break the system and are voting/intending to vote for Reform who are offering the status quo

I predict shit is going to get worse...a lot worse. I also predict we'll still be having the same conversation about this for years to come.

All of the above.

I might actually enjoy the no plan Reform government, nearly as much as the no plan Brexit.

Why would I spit the dummy, as I sit here supping my champagne, laughing at you capitalists not understanding how capitalism works and getting it wrong again from the sunlit uplands of Worthy Towers?

ladies sip champagne, proper men have a decent single malt and sure as 'eck don't thick capitalism is God's gift to pen pushers
Why not move to Dubai and waste some of that clearly too much salary on a 'proper' Worthy tower?

I'm sat here laughing at all you proper socialist Gammon down on Manor Farm.

No malice mate but there are times you have me in stitches

[Hoboh]

A wee summary of things...

• The 'system is fecked and only works for the wealthy

• Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems are offering more of the same, whilst tinkering around the edges

• Reform are offering a more xenophobic/racist version of what the Tories are

• Lots of folk want to break the system and are voting/intending to vote for Reform who are offering the status quo

I predict shit is going to get worse...a lot worse. I also predict we'll still be having the same conversation about this for years to come.

All of the above.

I might actually enjoy the no plan Reform government, nearly as much as the no plan Brexit.

Why would I spit the dummy, as I sit here supping my champagne, laughing at you capitalists not understanding how capitalism works and getting it wrong again from the sunlit uplands of Worthy Towers?

ladies sip champagne, proper men have a decent single malt and sure as 'eck don't think capitalism is God's gift to pen pushers
Why not move to Dubai and waste some of that clearly too much salary on a 'proper' Worthy tower?

I'm sat here laughing at all you proper socialist Gammon down on Manor Farm.

No malice mate but there are times you have me in stitches

[Worthy4England]

A wee summary of things...

• The 'system is fecked and only works for the wealthy

• Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems are offering more of the same, whilst tinkering around the edges

• Reform are offering a more xenophobic/racist version of what the Tories are

• Lots of folk want to break the system and are voting/intending to vote for Reform who are offering the status quo

I predict shit is going to get worse...a lot worse. I also predict we'll still be having the same conversation about this for years to come.

All of the above.

I might actually enjoy the no plan Reform government, nearly as much as the no plan Brexit.

Why would I spit the dummy, as I sit here supping my champagne, laughing at you capitalists not understanding how capitalism works and getting it wrong again from the sunlit uplands of Worthy Towers?

ladies sip champagne, proper men have a decent single malt and sure as 'eck don't thick capitalism is God's gift to pen pushers
Why not move to Dubai and waste some of that clearly too much salary on a 'proper' Worthy tower?

I'm sat here laughing at all you proper socialist Gammon down on Manor Farm.

No malice mate but there are times you have me in stitches

It's taken that way, Hobes!

Whilst you're about it, could you stop this global warming that isn't happening, it's taking the chill off the Pol Roger, too quickly!