Sex Education

Batman · Post by **Batman** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:56 am

Okeydokey well that's that.

Night all.

superjohnmcginlay · Post by **superjohnmcginlay** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:55 am

I think you might have touched a nerve there Batman.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:39 pm

I guess I'm just procrastinating now, but you've tempted me! Yes, sex education is important. I saw (of all people) Davina McCall talking to some minister about it. The conversation went something like this:

Davina: "In the Netherlands, they now don't have close to our problem, though they did 20 years ago. And the sex education they get is much wider in scope and starts at an earlier age"

Minister: "Yes, but Dutch parents discuss sex at home with their kids, it's not only the schools. It is the job of the parent."

Davina: "Yes, but the reason they do that is that they were the first people to be taught sex education well at school and can now teach their kids at home"

Minister: "Oh, umm, yes, at home, not school, ummm."

So yes, more sex ed, not just "you'll get pregnant or die" type. One thing that confuses me is why so many kids get as far as labour? If I had a 13 year old daughter who got pregnant, she'd be straight down the abortion clinic, no trouble. And I think "A youth with no morals" is a bit OTT, but I do think too many people lack a basic education in how to behave: but that is certainly not restricted to our youth.

CrazyHorse · Post by **CrazyHorse** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:55 pm

Pete wrote:I guess I'm just procrastinating now, but you've tempted me! Yes, sex education is important. I saw (of all people) Davina McCall talking to some minister about it. The conversation went something like this:

Davina: "In the Netherlands, they now don't have close to our problem, though they did 20 years ago. And the sex education they get is much wider in scope and starts at an earlier age"

Minister: "Yes, but Dutch parents discuss sex at home with their kids, it's not only the schools. It is the job of the parent."

Davina: "Yes, but the reason they do that is that they were the first people to be taught sex education well at school and can now teach their kids at home"

Minister: "Oh, umm, yes, at home, not school, ummm."

So yes, more sex ed, not just "you'll get pregnant or die" type. One thing that confuses me is why so many kids get as far as labour? If I had a 13 year old daughter who got pregnant, she'd be straight down the abortion clinic, no trouble. And I think "A youth with no morals" is a bit OTT, but I do think too many people lack a basic education in how to behave: but that is certainly not restricted to our youth.

You're opening a huge moralistic can of worms here, Pete. That is your opinion which is fine, but a lot of other people don't share your view of an enforced abortion on their 13 year old daughter. That is the reason why so many kids get as far as labour.

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:01 pm

abortion is a drastic measure and, religion aside, it is a massive step, physically and psycologically. You're suggestion of basically dragging a 13 year-old to the clinic is potentially as damaging to her as having the child.
Abortion is something which shouldn't be taken so lightly as you suggest, the fact that you do and kids themselves do, is part of the reason some don't worry about pregnancy - "I can get rid of it".

I know two women who've aborted pregnancies both for different reasons, both old enough to know what they were doing but both came away with emotional scars which they carried with them years later, neither being able to totally reconcile their decision.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:08 pm

communistworkethic wrote:abortion is a drastic measure and, religion aside, it is a massive step, physically and psycologically. You're suggestion of basically dragging a 13 year-old to the clinic is potentially as damaging to her as having the child.
Abortion is something which shouldn't be taken so lightly as you suggest, the fact that you do and kids themselves do, is part of the reason some don't worry about pregnancy - "I can get rid of it".

I know two women who've aborted pregnancies both for different reasons, both old enough to know what they were doing but both came away with emotional scars which they carried with them years later, neither being able to totally reconcile their decision.

A 13 year old can't cope with a child on her own. Yes, it is drastic, and emotionally painful, maybe it would be a lesson to take good advice next time. Did I ever suggest taking it lightly? I suggested it as the only feasible choice. Anyway, it's a moot point as I guess neither of us will ever be in that situation, since we both seem to think a healthy sex education is important.

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:09 pm

Probably not the best of subjects for me due to hormonal reasons. My netball coach’s daughter is pregnant at 15. She’s not from a “bad home”. Her parents are together and take a lot of interest in their kids. She’s a bright kid, lively and energetic and now she’s got the biggest decision of her life in front of her. She said she rushed into sex with her boyfriend because she didn’t want to say no and let him down. I’d say a big problem is that some girls do lack self-esteem and feel that they get respect by their peer group by going further along because the fear of looking stupid by not doing. Of course it’s not half as stupid as having your life totally changed by teenage pregnancy. I don’t have answers but I know from experience that saying yes doesn’t mean that you’ll get love or the respect you crave.

The abortion decision isn’t always the way forward either. I’ve had 2 miscarriages and the last one was at 13 weeks. Due to problems I’d had a scan at 8 weeks and the consultant pointed out the foetus’s heartbeat flickering away and other organs beginning to develop – to me it was a life, although I get frowned at for saying it was a “baby” and I don’t know if I could cope with ending that life after what I’d seen. I had no choice in the matter in the end.

My close friend is married with 3 kids had an abortion after her husband told her there was no way he would consider a 4th child and if she carried on, he’d leave. She chose her husband and had the abortion. There isn’t a single day that goes by that she doesn’t regret that choice. Can a teenage child manage these feelings?

fatshaft · Post by **fatshaft** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:15 pm

boltonboris wrote:
hisroyalgingerness wrote:
the next gen lot need to be able to put the sex that they see on tv and web etc and be able to put it into context of real life. they need to understand that what they see via these mediums - which arguably they'll trust more - and that this doesn't demonstrate consequences effectively. i think trust plays a massive part in it. why listen to a teacher when you can see that nice welsh bird off big bro getting right royally shagged from behind on youtube.
Link??

I don't watch BB, so I'm assuming this didn't really happen - did it?

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:40 pm

Gertie wrote:My close friend is married with 3 kids had an abortion after her husband told her there was no way he would consider a 4th child and if she carried on, he’d leave. She chose her husband and had the abortion. There isn’t a single day that goes by that she doesn’t regret that choice. Can a teenage child manage these feelings?

Eh? Did he have no part in it? Hasn't he heard of vasectomies?

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:54 pm

Well he's a complete nobber in every respect. Why she's with him I'll never ever know (well he's the father of her kids but that's about it). He refused to have the snip as it would be an insult to his manhood and my friend had an op in the end.

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:57 pm

Pete wrote:
communistworkethic wrote:abortion is a drastic measure and, religion aside, it is a massive step, physically and psycologically. You're suggestion of basically dragging a 13 year-old to the clinic is potentially as damaging to her as having the child.
Abortion is something which shouldn't be taken so lightly as you suggest, the fact that you do and kids themselves do, is part of the reason some don't worry about pregnancy - "I can get rid of it".

I know two women who've aborted pregnancies both for different reasons, both old enough to know what they were doing but both came away with emotional scars which they carried with them years later, neither being able to totally reconcile their decision.
A 13 year old can't cope with a child on her own. Yes, it is drastic, and emotionally painful, maybe it would be a lesson to take good advice next time. Did I ever suggest taking it lightly? I suggested it as the only feasible choice. Anyway, it's a moot point as I guess neither of us will ever be in that situation, since we both seem to think a healthy sex education is important.

"no trouble" suggests you are taking it lightly and adoption is an alternative that is also feasible.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:24 pm

communistworkethic wrote:
Pete wrote:
communistworkethic wrote:abortion is a drastic measure and, religion aside, it is a massive step, physically and psycologically. You're suggestion of basically dragging a 13 year-old to the clinic is potentially as damaging to her as having the child.
Abortion is something which shouldn't be taken so lightly as you suggest, the fact that you do and kids themselves do, is part of the reason some don't worry about pregnancy - "I can get rid of it".

I know two women who've aborted pregnancies both for different reasons, both old enough to know what they were doing but both came away with emotional scars which they carried with them years later, neither being able to totally reconcile their decision.
A 13 year old can't cope with a child on her own. Yes, it is drastic, and emotionally painful, maybe it would be a lesson to take good advice next time. Did I ever suggest taking it lightly? I suggested it as the only feasible choice. Anyway, it's a moot point as I guess neither of us will ever be in that situation, since we both seem to think a healthy sex education is important.
"no trouble" suggests you are taking it lightly and adoption is an alternative that is also feasible.

I only meant I was clear what the best alternative is, in my own mind. Adoption is an option, but I think it is a bad option. The pain of never having something is surely less than the pain of having something taken?

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:44 pm

not necessarily. Abortion is invasive and as Gertie points out there is the question of taking a life, it's a position and effect that I think only a woman in that position will only ever truly appreciate fully.

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:58 pm

Pete wrote:
communistworkethic wrote:
Pete wrote:
communistworkethic wrote:abortion is a drastic measure and, religion aside, it is a massive step, physically and psycologically. You're suggestion of basically dragging a 13 year-old to the clinic is potentially as damaging to her as having the child.
Abortion is something which shouldn't be taken so lightly as you suggest, the fact that you do and kids themselves do, is part of the reason some don't worry about pregnancy - "I can get rid of it".

I know two women who've aborted pregnancies both for different reasons, both old enough to know what they were doing but both came away with emotional scars which they carried with them years later, neither being able to totally reconcile their decision.
A 13 year old can't cope with a child on her own. Yes, it is drastic, and emotionally painful, maybe it would be a lesson to take good advice next time. Did I ever suggest taking it lightly? I suggested it as the only feasible choice. Anyway, it's a moot point as I guess neither of us will ever be in that situation, since we both seem to think a healthy sex education is important.
"no trouble" suggests you are taking it lightly and adoption is an alternative that is also feasible.
I only meant I was clear what the best alternative is, in my own mind. Adoption is an option, but I think it is a bad option. The pain of never having something is surely less than the pain of having something taken?

I don't know, I still feel massive pain about my loss. Quite a few of my friends are adopted. They would be dead if that hadn't been an option.

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