Quantum of Solace

[ratbert]

I don't think some of the values of Fleming's Bond, rooted as they are in the 1950s, would work today, however much Tango prefers and wants them. There's a line Bond uses in one of the books that wouldn't pass muster now (and the whole of the book of Live and Let Die certainly wouldn't in the Obama era).

Craig, as a Bond for 21st century, works for me, just as Moore suited the 70s and Connery the 60s. The core concept (a 'blunt instrument')remains and they way he relates to the changing world around him alters with time, which is for me why the films have lasted so long.

[hisroyalgingerness]

That's the thing for me. I'm really enjoying the books. They are very 50s, post war, precise and of course sexist/racist etc. Bond did move with the times and Craig's is very 21st century.

[TANGODANCER]

Well, the original Bond would be in his nineties now if the baddies didn't get him.

The point I was making wasn't about mixing past values with those of today at all. Nothing that complicated. I was simply saying I liked the Bond of the era he appeared in, an obviously considered old-fashioned era today. Film makers put modern spins on everything and, whilst they mould it to suit, it isn't the original. In Bond's case (unlike Robin Hood and co) he was a character created by Fleming in an era where he was at home, the fifties. The books reflected that and, in my opinion, so should the films. It's been said the Fleming based some of the character on himself.

A millennium, politically correct Bond is a bit like Sherlock Holmes without his pipe and deerstalker hat. It's an era thing.

[Puskas]

A millennium, politically correct Bond is a bit like Sherlock Holmes without his pipe and deerstalker hat. It's an era thing.

An ironic choice of example, given that the deerstalker hat was a creation of Basil Rathbone in the films - Conan Doyle's original Holmes was a more foppish, effete character than is normally portrayed on the screen (apart from by Jeremy Brett)

[Worthy4England]

Bloody PC modernisers

The problem is, if you change the character too much, then it becomes a different character.

Women are meant to want to have his babies above all else, even the villanous ones, it's an integral part of who Bond is.

Feck me, we'll have him sharing the shopping trips next and breaking off from chasing villains because it's his turn to do the school run or he's got to mow the lawn.

[TANGODANCER]

A millennium, politically correct Bond is a bit like Sherlock Holmes without his pipe and deerstalker hat. It's an era thing.

An ironic choice of example, given that the deerstalker hat was a creation of Basil Rathbone in the films - Conan Doyle's original Holmes was a more foppish, effete character than is normally portrayed on the screen (apart from by Jeremy Brett)

If you want to be precise, Conan Doyle actually referred to it as his ""ear-flapped travelling-cap". Deerstalker is just another description of the same. Elementary my dear Puskas.

[Harry Genshaw]

James Bond films

Agreed!

I quite liked Live and Let Die.

Only for the Voodoo man and the theme tune though

Paul McCartney in good post Beatles music shocker!

[CrazyHorse]

James Bond films

Agreed!

I quite liked Live and Let Die.

Only for the Voodoo man and the theme tune though

Paul McCartney in good post Beatles music shocker!

Band on the run?

[superjohnmcginlay]

Agreed!

I quite liked Live and Let Die.

Only for the Voodoo man and the theme tune though

Paul McCartney in good post Beatles music shocker!

Band on the run?

Frog song?

[ratbert]

Well, the original Bond would be in his nineties now if the baddies didn't get him.

The point I was making wasn't about mixing past values with those of today at all. Nothing that complicated. I was simply saying I liked the Bond of the era he appeared in, an obviously considered old-fashioned era today. Film makers put modern spins on everything and, whilst they mould it to suit, it isn't the original. In Bond's case (unlike Robin Hood and co) he was a character created by Fleming in an era where he was at home, the fifties. The books reflected that and, in my opinion, so should the films. It's been said the Fleming based some of the character on himself.

A millennium, politically correct Bond is a bit like Sherlock Holmes without his pipe and deerstalker hat. It's an era thing.

But if you did that today... no-one would watch them.

Where Sherlock Holmes is concerned, most of the Basil Rathbone films had the 19th century detective fighting Nazis in WW2!!

[TANGODANCER]

How is the betting Ratty, before a Mojito ( twitched and not shaken, with just a hint of mint) drinking Jemima ( don't call me darling) Bond arrives on the scene?.

If you want real classy spies, Adam Hall's "Quiller" and Brian Freemantle's "Charlie Muffin" are the real deal. Cold war stuff, I'll admit, but great reading.

[ratbert]

I like the Len Deighton Harry Palmers (though he's not named as such in print).

And as for Jemima Bond... hasn't there already been an attempt in the 1960s called Modesty Blaise?

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

James Bond films

Agreed!

I quite liked Live and Let Die.

Only for the Voodoo man and the theme tune though

Gotta agree with a few on here, James Bond....meh, whats all the fuss?

And the worst SFX in blowing out a human in movie history!

What's wrong with you people! Our country's football team sucks our crickets team even more, and our Englisland based movies are normally of a tiny budget.

Yet when the yanks come marching in, yelling about there super duper action hero's, the minute you mention Bond, they turn tall mumbling something about a 'dirty trick!'

Yank:

"Our country always saves the planet ahead our you lot, in almost every movie made"

Reply:

"Bond"

Yank:

"The Lord of the Rings series was the largest gross return in history"

Reply:

"Bond"

Yank:

"Yes, but our..."

"Bond"


England's secret weapon indeed!

[TANGODANCER]

I like the Len Deighton Harry Palmers (though he's not named as such in print).

And as for Jemima Bond... hasn't there already been an attempt in the 1960s called Modesty Blaise?

Didn't find Modesty Blaise and her mate (Willie?) too bad reading. I know they made at least one film with David Hemmings as Willie.

[ratbert]

They made one film, a bit of a mess (but watchable) with Dirk Bogarde as the villain!

[communistworkethic]

From the ones that I've seen, this has to be my favourite clip.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FNLF0kWBvp0

Much, much nearer the mark for Bond Bruce. A younger Connery, without all the flying jet packs, airborne speedboats and implausible plots would be terrific. The new Casino Royale was much nearer reality and an enjoyable film, but Daniel Craig just isn't it for me. No tall, dark ex-naval Commander with the black comma of hair, no hand-made cigarettes and famous matt black gunmetal case and Dunhill lighter in sight. Bond was far too balanced to go chasing out of a restaurant with a steak knife to kill someone amidst a crowd. He'll be drinking Perrier water in the next one.

which misses the point of CR & QoS entirely.

No. Not at all. The point being the Bond of Ian Fleming (who first appeared in 1953) was a different person than has been created to suit today's offering. I'm aware of what these latest films are about, but it isn't Fleming. Creating a new "dark" and complex Bond/ a la Batman etc, doesn't alter a thing. The "point" is nothing more than a convenient change to modernise. You like it , fine, your privelege. It's still a re-modelled convenient version which even the directors don't deny.

no, the bit I highlighted has nothing to do with era. These two films are about defining the character and filling in the back story for a new audience, they are intended to explain what makes him tick and the relationships he has. Here he's a new agent, one still coming to terms with his '00' position and then the death of his love leading him on a rage-blinded mission of revenge. This is all pre-uberclinical killer.

[TANGODANCER]

My point was simple, so was my statement. It was that, yes, this is a new Bond - one manufactured to suit modern times- but not the Bond of his creator,Ian Fleming. I prefer the original who was as far from the new one as fifty five years is in evolution time. . Because modern film-makers want to change the character and have him a non-smoker and carrying a lap-top around, it doesn't reflect back to the James Bond of Ian Fleming, a different character entirely. That's it. Nothing to argue about.

I enjoyed Casino Royale very much as a stand-alone film. I'd have enjoyed it more if Craig had said "My name is Smith, Albert Smith".

[jmjhb]

Quantum of Solace was pretty average compared to how good Casino Royale was, with a confusing and unexplained plot, action sequences piling up one after the other and random unnecessary scenes. Noticed that there was too much product placement too.

So, yeah, back to normal then after the breath of fresh air that Casino Royale was

Oh and the theme music was TERRIBLE

[H. Pedersen]

I like Craig as Bond just becase I think he's the first Bond sice Connery who looks like he could actually win a fight.

I enjoyed Casino Royale but Quantum of Solace flat out sucked. Nothing happened in that movie. No plot, no character development, and it existed just to mae some cash before the next film. Terrible. Don't spend your money.

[Montreal Wanderer]

A millennium, politically correct Bond is a bit like Sherlock Holmes without his pipe and deerstalker hat. It's an era thing.

An ironic choice of example, given that the deerstalker hat was a creation of Basil Rathbone in the films - Conan Doyle's original Holmes was a more foppish, effete character than is normally portrayed on the screen (apart from by Jeremy Brett)

If you want to be precise, Conan Doyle actually referred to it as his ""ear-flapped travelling-cap". Deerstalker is just another description of the same. Elementary my dear Puskas.

Nonetheless, Tango, Holmes almost always wore a top hat, especially in the city. His traveling cap probably appeared in only one story. Puskas, I do not think effete can possibly be used to describe Holmes and he was no more foppish than many of his class and era. Of course, he did take dope...