Alan Turing.

[TANGODANCER]

In the light of the short conversation with Puskas (in the thread on homosexuality) I thought it might be an idea to give Alan Turing a thread of his own. Utterly remarkable man and known to me only by reading, the statue in Manchester and the fact that I work at The National Computing Centre (along with Manchester University one of the leading bodies in the development of computing in this country) . From the mainframe days of 1966 my company ( where I am Facilites Manager, note, not the new Turing) has been in existence in Manchester in the field of computer research and development, so Turing is a legendary figure here. Involved in the days of Enigma decoding at Bletchely Park during World War II, Turing was one of the country's most intelligent and brilliant minds so any input will be interesting, whether his personal life or work.

[InsaneApache]

The country should hang it's head in shame the way that Turing was treated.

[markakamark]

I actually have no idea who he is, only that one of buildings at my uni campus is named 'The Alan Turing Building'. Where's the best place to get a general reading of who he is? Wiki?

[Puskas]

In the light of the short conversation with Puskas (in the thread on homosexuality) I thought it might be an idea to give Alan Turing a thread of his own. Utterly remarkable man and known to me only by reading, the statue in Manchester and the fact that I work at The National Computing Centre (along with Manchester University one of the leading bodies in the development of computing in this country) . From the mainframe days of 1966 my company ( where I am Facilites Manager, note, not the new Turing) has been in existence in Manchester in the field of computer research and development, so Turing is a legendary figure here. Involved in the days of Enigma decoding at Bletchely Park during World War II, Turing was one of the country's most intelligent and brilliant minds so any input will be interesting, whether his personal life or work.

Absolutely.

The Father of Modern Computing, as TD mentioned in t'other thread - although there are a few others who could also lay claim to that title: the Hungarian/American mathematician, John von Neuman, for example.

Turing, however, laid down the mathematical groundwork for the very notion of computability. Prior to him, Alonzo Church, Kurt Godel and Stephen Kleene all used various mathematical formalisations of the intuitive notion of computability and showed they were equivalent. It wasn't, however, until Turing's classic paper "On Computable Numbers", in which he introduced what came to be known as the "Turing Machine" (a mathematical model of a computer, basically) and showed it was equivalent to previous formulations, that it was truly accepted that this really did capture "computability".

His equally impressive, although less famous paper, "On Ordinal Systems of Logic" showed how this could be relativised - so that non-computable things could be considered computable relative to other non-computable things. Essentially, it classified information content complexity. This was the area in which I made some very minor contributions, many years ago...

He also worked on breaking codes in the second world war, at Bletchley Park, worked on building a computer at the University of Manchester and did something in mathematical biology that I know nothing about.

And, of course, there is the famous Turing Test, which was a major input to the philosophy of mind and artificial intelligence.

I'd recommend everyone read Andrew Hodges's excellent biography of him - "Alan Turing:The Enigma". A great book.

I've also long argued that the empty plinth in Trafalgar Square should have a statue of him. There are not enough statues of scientists. And his contribution to the second world war should satisfy the more militarily minded.

I would write more. But I do have to work...

[Puskas]

The country should hang it's head in shame the way that Turing was treated.

Absolutely.

[TANGODANCER]

I actually have no idea who he is, only that one of buildings at my uni campus is named 'The Alan Turing Building'. Where's the best place to get a general reading of who he is? Wiki?

Yes, you can get a broad outline there, but a search on Google will reveal several sources.

[Puskas]

I actually have no idea who he is, only that one of buildings at my uni campus is named 'The Alan Turing Building'. Where's the best place to get a general reading of who he is? Wiki?

As I mentioned in my overly-long post - the Andew Hodges book is good.

Read it.

[TANGODANCER]

The country should hang it's head in shame the way that Turing was treated.

Can't quite define it that way IA. That's a bit like the thinking that says we should we should apologise for the Crusades. How can we really be held responsible for something that happened hundreds of years before we were born?.

Turing's biggest enemy was not his homosexuality (something probably going on all around him in most cities) but the fact that he had become a very public figure and also his open outlook on his preferences at a time when homosexuality was something that people knew existed, but didn't want to be seen as being associated with it in any way. 1952 was fifty seven years ago. Then, outlooks were very different. People we much more a church-going element in a family orientated world where even television wasn't the norm. In short, we hadn't progressed to the mindset of today. Not the fault of the people, just a sign of the times.

[InsaneApache]

Ahhh that would be when a bloke in suede shoes was looked on as a bit iffy!

From wiki

Homosexual acts were illegal in the United Kingdom and regarded as a mental illness and subject to criminal sanctions. In 1952, Arnold Murray, a 19-year-old recent acquaintance of Turing's, helped an accomplice to break into Turing's house, and Turing reported the crime to the police. As a result of the police investigation, Turing acknowledged a sexual relationship with Murray, and a crime having been identified and settled, Turing and Murray were charged with gross indecency under Section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885. Turing was unrepentant and was convicted of the same crime Oscar Wilde had been convicted of more than fifty years before.

Turing was given a choice between imprisonment and probation, conditional on his undergoing hormonal treatment designed to reduce libido. To avoid jail, he accepted chemical castration via estrogen hormone injections which lasted for a year. His conviction led to a removal of his security clearance and prevented him from continuing consultancy for GCHQ on cryptographic matters. At the time, there was acute public anxiety about spies and homosexual entrapment by Soviet agents, possibly due to the recent exposure of the first two members of the Cambridge Five, Guy Burgess and Donald Maclean, as KGB double agents. Turing was never accused of espionage but, as with all who had worked at Bletchley Park, could not discuss his war work.

Quite simply barbaric.

[TANGODANCER]

Carl Perkins had Blue Suede Shoes in 1955.

[Dujon]

I am surprised, TANGO, that he is not better known in his own country. I find that fact rather sad.

I too have only read about the man (I'm not that old) but he lives in my mind as a brilliant thinker; anyone who can ponder beyond the pale as he did and conjure up a working computer in his imagination - a system, by the way, which turned out to be correct - I expected to be lauded along with the likes of other U.K. icons.

To finish his life as he did, whatever the pressure that brought him to that act (a cyanide laced apple if memory serves), fills me with anguish when I think of what many people must have suffered to even consider such a step. Turing is a special case in the sense that we can clearly see that the world lost a soul who could well have contributed so much more to it. There are untold stories galore of others who in their misery and desperation have done the same. It has been said that suicide is a 'coward's way out' but that's a view with which I disagree. We all have tough times in our lives and I am not immune from that phenomenon but to even consider truncating one's existence?

Perhaps the term 'driven out of one's mind' might be right.

[ratbert]

Just bumping this thread up in the light of this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 73480.html

[TANGODANCER]

See again, I don't understand how a country can hang its head in shame? Alan Turing, genius and tragic figure, is dead. Honour his memory for his work and leave his private life alone. There's few around today who knew him and how on earth can anyone apologise for something done in the past by other people? Those other people were our parents and grandparents, victims of their society and ways of the times, not a gang of monsters by choice.

No one can change his story but keep dragging up the wrong parts of it won't help anyone. Highlight Turing the genius not Turing the homosexual. To people of today he can be made a hero and his genius recognised without trying to change history. What happened happened. Let the man rest in peace as a pioneer of technology and stop all the nonesense about the rest. I'm sure any living family of his would be much happier for him to be remembered for what he did that people making publicity out of something best forgotten because it is unchangeable.

If we want a world of equality we'll only ever get it by stopping highlighting "differences", sexuality, skin colour, religion etc. Somebody on here once said, "Why Gay Pride parades, we don't have "Straight Pride ones". I'm for that. Recognise Turing's achievements to humanity and progress and give him a major posthumous award for them. This is the way forwards. Going backwards will achieve nothing whatsoever.

Just my view but I believe in it.

[boltonboris]

See again, I don't understand how a country can hang its head in shame? Alan Turing, genius and tragic figure, is dead. Honour his memory for his work and leave his private life alone. There's few around today who knew him and how on earth can anyone apologise for something done in the past by other people? Those other people were our parents and grandparents, victims of their society and ways of the times, not a gang of monsters by choice.

No one can change his story but keep dragging up the wrong parts of it won't help anyone. Highlight Turing the genius not Turing the homosexual. To people of today he can be made a hero and his genius recognised without trying to change history. What happened happened. Let the man rest in peace as a pioneer of technology and stop all the nonesense about the rest. I'm sure any living family of his would be much happier for him to be remembered for what he did that people making publicity out of something best forgotten because it is unchangeable.

If we want a world of equality we'll only ever get it by stopping highlighting "differences", sexuality, skin colour, religion etc. Somebody on here once said, "Why Gay Pride parades, we don't have "Straight Pride ones". I'm for that. Recognise Turing's achievements to humanity and progress and give him a major posthumous award for them. This is the way forwards. Going backwards will achieve nothing whatsoever.

Just my view but I believe in it.

As do I Tango...

One thing that grinds my gears is things like... "Ian Wright was a role model for young black footballers up and down the country"

Why foces on is colour? why not just say he's a role model for young footballers?

[Hoboh]

Yeah just leave us tramps alone

[Lord Kangana]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Turing is often credited with the Enigma decoding machine....but wasn't it a postal worker from somewhere or other who actually designed and built it and never received the recognition he deservd?

[TANGODANCER]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Turing is often credited with the Enigma decoding machine....but wasn't it a postal worker from somewhere or other who actually designed and built it and never received the recognition he deservd?

The Enigma machine was German. The Bletchley Park team, of which Turing was a prominent member, were credited with
cracking its codes using a captured machine and code books.

[Lord Kangana]

I know what it is. Note the use of the words "decoding machine". As I say, my recollection is that whilst Turing et al provided the theory, an unknown Postal worker actually designed and built the first machine himself, not necessarily following any instruction from others

Edit: Tommy Flowers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers

[TANGODANCER]

I know what it is. Note the use of the words "decoding machine". As I say, my recollection is that whilst Turing et al provided the theory, an unknown Postal worker actually designed and built the first machine himself, not necessarily following any instruction from others.

Not heard that, but I'll certainly check from interest.

[TANGODANCER]

I know what it is. Note the use of the words "decoding machine". As I say, my recollection is that whilst Turing et al provided the theory, an unknown Postal worker actually designed and built the first machine himself, not necessarily following any instruction from others.

Not heard that, but I'll certainly check from interest.

How very typical of our government; gave him a payment which didn't even cover what he'd spent.