The Politics Thread

[Prufrock]

Went to a student socialist movement meeting today.....far better than I expected. I was expecting pretentious bullshiterry about principles. What I got was well thought out activism, and a good night in the pub afterwards. Very impressed.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Went to a student socialist movement meeting today.....far better than I expected. I was expecting pretentious bullshiterry about principles. What I got was well thought out activism, and a good night in the pub afterwards. Very impressed.

What was this "well though out activisim", then?

Always avoided the student Conservative Association... very irritating people.

[mofgimmers]

Went to a student socialist movement meeting today.....far better than I expected. I was expecting pretentious bullshiterry about principles. What I got was well thought out activism, and a good night in the pub afterwards. Very impressed.

What was this "well though out activisim", then?

Always avoided the student Conservative Association... very irritating people.

A mate of mine was invited to the young Conservative's Christmas rollerskating party a few years back. There's a whole bunch of words I didn't expect to ever type in the same sentence.

[Prufrock]

Went to a student socialist movement meeting today.....far better than I expected. I was expecting pretentious bullshiterry about principles. What I got was well thought out activism, and a good night in the pub afterwards. Very impressed.

What was this "well though out activisim", then?

Always avoided the student Conservative Association... very irritating people.

They go and actually do stuff. I've been to a couple of student-y rallies, normally ideas tend to be half thought out, such as withdrawing troops immediately without thought as to the vacuum which is left behind, or very much driven towards protests and marches, which whilst good ideas, aren't ever going to acheive much on their own. Some of the people I spoke with tonight have contacts inside Afghanistan and Pakistan who are talking to people, making inroads, mobilising democratic people, particularly women, so that when that vacuum happens, and it will, either when we pull out, or when we are forced out, the democratically minded people have some sort of unity, and organisation, so that the land becomes owned by the people, and people aren't scared to stand up for democracy. Hell, there's every chance they will fail, but by putting the effort in now they have a chance, and student related politics with a plan is something I haven't really seen before.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Went to a student socialist movement meeting today.....far better than I expected. I was expecting pretentious bullshiterry about principles. What I got was well thought out activism, and a good night in the pub afterwards. Very impressed.

What was this "well though out activisim", then?

Always avoided the student Conservative Association... very irritating people.

They go and actually do stuff. I've been to a couple of student-y rallies, normally ideas tend to be half thought out, such as withdrawing troops immediately without thought as to the vacuum which is left behind, or very much driven towards protests and marches, which whilst good ideas, aren't ever going to acheive much on their own. Some of the people I spoke with tonight have contacts inside Afghanistan and Pakistan who are talking to people, making inroads, mobilising democratic people, particularly women, so that when that vacuum happens, and it will, either when we pull out, or when we are forced out, the democratically minded people have some sort of unity, and organisation, so that the land becomes owned by the people, and people aren't scared to stand up for democracy. Hell, there's every chance they will fail, but by putting the effort in now they have a chance, and student related politics with a plan is something I haven't really seen before.

I see.

So this 'plan' is to executed by going directly through 'contacts' and bypassing the governments involved?

And what are 'democratic people', just out of interest?

[Prufrock]

Went to a student socialist movement meeting today.....far better than I expected. I was expecting pretentious bullshiterry about principles. What I got was well thought out activism, and a good night in the pub afterwards. Very impressed.

What was this "well though out activisim", then?

Always avoided the student Conservative Association... very irritating people.

They go and actually do stuff. I've been to a couple of student-y rallies, normally ideas tend to be half thought out, such as withdrawing troops immediately without thought as to the vacuum which is left behind, or very much driven towards protests and marches, which whilst good ideas, aren't ever going to acheive much on their own. Some of the people I spoke with tonight have contacts inside Afghanistan and Pakistan who are talking to people, making inroads, mobilising democratic people, particularly women, so that when that vacuum happens, and it will, either when we pull out, or when we are forced out, the democratically minded people have some sort of unity, and organisation, so that the land becomes owned by the people, and people aren't scared to stand up for democracy. Hell, there's every chance they will fail, but by putting the effort in now they have a chance, and student related politics with a plan is something I haven't really seen before.

I see.

So this 'plan' is to executed by going directly through 'contacts' and bypassing the governments involved?

And what are 'democratic people', just out of interest?

The one's who want democracy and universal suffrage. At least 50% of the population might find that a good idea. Cuba showed how effective mobilising women can be.

It's not about a masterplan, it's more realising that Afghanistan is still an occupied country, and that sooner or later their people are going to get pretty pissed off with that, understandably so. The increase in support for the Taliban, preaching their 'look at what the bad Americans did to you' shows that time seems to be coming. Only one of two things can happen, in the long run. We get forced out, or we pull out. When that happens, it seems a good idea there be some organisation there as opposed to chaos, and an organised Taliban filling the void.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The one's who want democracy and universal suffrage. At least 50% of the population might find that a good idea. Cuba showed how effective mobilising women can be.

It's not about a masterplan, it's more realising that Afghanistan is still an occupied country, and that sooner or later their people are going to get pretty pissed off with that, understandably so. The increase in support for the Taliban, preaching their 'look at what the bad Americans did to you' shows that time seems to be coming. Only one of two things can happen, in the long run. We get forced out, or we pull out. When that happens, it seems a good idea there be some organisation there as opposed to chaos, and an organised Taliban filling the void.

Ok, so once that 'realisation' has been reached, and we are settled on the fact that 'some organisation' is a good idea, you think a student socialist movement is well-placed to provide it, or even make a blind bit of difference?

I'm not knocking anyone's good intentions or admirable wishes, by the way, I'm just interested in the distinction between "bullshittery and principles" and "well thought out activism".

[blurred]

enjoying the Conservative Party Conference?

There's a whole bunch of words I didn't expect to ever hear in the same sentence.

[Verbal]

ooh, edgy.

It's amazing how much doing a politics degree makes you disillusioned with the whole thing.

[Raven]

ooh, edgy.

It's amazing how much doing a politics degree makes you disillusioned with the whole thing.

You don't need that, just leaving school during the Thatcher years and what came after was enough!

[Hoboh]

Went to a student socialist movement meeting today.....far better than I expected. I was expecting pretentious bullshiterry about principles. What I got was well thought out activism, and a good night in the pub afterwards. Very impressed.

What was this "well though out activisim", then?

Always avoided the student Conservative Association... very irritating people.

They go and actually do stuff. I've been to a couple of student-y rallies, normally ideas tend to be half thought out, such as withdrawing troops immediately without thought as to the vacuum which is left behind, or very much driven towards protests and marches, which whilst good ideas, aren't ever going to acheive much on their own. Some of the people I spoke with tonight have contacts inside Afghanistan and Pakistan who are talking to people, making inroads, mobilising democratic people, particularly women, so that when that vacuum happens, and it will, either when we pull out, or when we are forced out, the democratically minded people have some sort of unity, and organisation, so that the land becomes owned by the people, and people aren't scared to stand up for democracy. Hell, there's every chance they will fail, but by putting the effort in now they have a chance, and student related politics with a plan is something I haven't really seen before.

I see.

So this 'plan' is to executed by going directly through 'contacts' and bypassing the governments involved?

And what are 'democratic people', just out of interest?

The one's who want democracy and universal suffrage. At least 50% of the population might find that a good idea. Cuba showed how effective mobilising women can be.

It's not about a masterplan, it's more realising that Afghanistan is still an occupied country, and that sooner or later their people are going to get pretty pissed off with that, understandably so. The increase in support for the Taliban, preaching their 'look at what the bad Americans did to you' shows that time seems to be coming. Only one of two things can happen, in the long run. We get forced out, or we pull out. When that happens, it seems a good idea there be some organisation there as opposed to chaos, and an organised Taliban filling the void.

Which will last all of 30 secs untill the Taliban shoot them all then the remaining ones will all go underground and press the West to intervene again!! kinda full circle politics!!!

[Verbal]

ooh, edgy.

It's amazing how much doing a politics degree makes you disillusioned with the whole thing.

You don't need that, just leaving school during the Thatcher years and what came after was enough!

Aye, that stuff gives you a terrible hangover.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Striking postmen.... just why are they so intent on being turkeys voting for Christmas?

[William the White]

Striking postmen.... just why are they so intent on being turkeys voting for Christmas?

It clearly puzzles you... but, without doubt, you are an intelligent man.

Just as a tester, you could use that intelligence to try to think through why it is that thousands of people could, in a secret ballot, vote against what you perceive as their interests?

It would, of course, require you to make an effort to put yourself in their position, and, obviously, the sneer comes easier...

But, why not give it a go?

I look forward to the possibilities...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Striking postmen.... just why are they so intent on being turkeys voting for Christmas?

It clearly puzzles you... but, without doubt, you are an intelligent man.

Just as a tester, you could use that intelligence to try to think through why it is that thousands of people could, in a secret ballot, vote against what you perceive as their interests?

It would, of course, require you to make an effort to put yourself in their position, and, obviously, the sneer comes easier...

But, why not give it a go?

I look forward to the possibilities...

I'm not sneering. I honestly they could be inflicting serious damage on themselves.

The Royal Mail aren't like the fire brigade - there are viable alternatives, as Amazon have forcefully demonstrated.

[William the White]

Striking postmen.... just why are they so intent on being turkeys voting for Christmas?

It clearly puzzles you... but, without doubt, you are an intelligent man.

Just as a tester, you could use that intelligence to try to think through why it is that thousands of people could, in a secret ballot, vote against what you perceive as their interests?

It would, of course, require you to make an effort to put yourself in their position, and, obviously, the sneer comes easier...

But, why not give it a go?

I look forward to the possibilities...

I'm not sneering. I honestly they could be inflicting serious damage on themselves.

The Royal Mail aren't like the fire brigade - there are viable alternatives, as Amazon have forcefully demonstrated.

I agree... So why do you think they are voting this way?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I agree... So why do you think they are voting this way?

I think they're desperate, and with some good cause, but I don't understand why they aren't straining every sinew to avoid strike action, especially in this cricitical pre-Christmas period. Companies like Amazon simply cannot have the risk of strike action built into their business models, and the workers are surely sounding the death knell for the company they work for and the service they care about?

[Hoboh]

Striking postmen.... just why are they so intent on being turkeys voting for Christmas?

It clearly puzzles you... but, without doubt, you are an intelligent man.

Just as a tester, you could use that intelligence to try to think through why it is that thousands of people could, in a secret ballot, vote against what you perceive as their interests?

It would, of course, require you to make an effort to put yourself in their position, and, obviously, the sneer comes easier...

But, why not give it a go?

I look forward to the possibilities...

I'm not sneering. I honestly they could be inflicting serious damage on themselves.

The Royal Mail aren't like the fire brigade - there are viable alternatives, as Amazon have forcefully demonstrated.

I agree... So why do you think they are voting this way?

Fear, utter fear!

Fear of the outside, away from their union jackasses they smell fear.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

What is amazing is that this has been a total non-issue in the conference season.

I know we're in the email age now, but surely this is still a crucial pillar of infrastructure?

[William the White]

I agree... So why do you think they are voting this way?

I think they're desperate, and with some good cause, but I don't understand why they aren't straining every sinew to avoid strike action, especially in this cricitical pre-Christmas period. Companies like Amazon simply cannot have the risk of strike action built into their business models, and the workers are surely sounding the death knell for the company they work for and the service they care about?

No the death knell is being sounded somewhere else, beyond their control... they are now working longer and harder for less pay than before, many have been made redundant or accepted redundancy, their business is falling about their ears - and they did none of this, they are not to blame for it... a market system initiated by a government ideologically hostile to the workers interests, and then, shamefully, reinforced by one pretending (a little) to support them is rolling over them, their families, their loved ones at a time of approaching mass unemployment when the next job might be very, very far away...

They face being crushed... that's what it is like for them, they face catastrophe...

You are right, they are desperate and want to find some way of resisting... this is not turkeys voting for christmas, this is the time when they have a little weight on their side of the scales, for once... amazon and the others are applying such pressure becuse they really don't have a viable alternative yet, at this most commercially imp time, and the workers are seeking, at this commercially imp time to wrench as many concessions as possible... For once the market is working in their favour... i'm not ordering any presents from amazon if I'm worried about their ability to deliver... and i know in the next three months they can't replace their reliance on the royal mail... their bluster will be exposed at the first serious examination...