The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

Lib Dems....

suddenly people have noticed them - and they are not just the friendly-but-harmless uncle sitting in the corner.

suddenly they are under some scrutiny - and (just like labour and conservative have always been) under attack from some sections of the press...

and they don't like it!! suprise surprise!! get over it luvvies - welcome to being noticed - you'd better sharpen up a bit!


re. tonight - I think it might be interesting...

many people came away from last week mistakenly thinking that the Lib Dems would scrap Trident. This is VERY FAR from being the case.... I suspect that young Nicholas might be pressd on this...

Hmm whilst this may be true, bish, our only hope of keeping the Tories out is a strong Lib Dem vote. If they wither and fade and its a straight race between Labour and the Tories, then the Tories get in with a majority.

Folk want change, our best hope is that the change is spread around.

And the Lib Dems having some power would be a good thing IMO.

[ratbert]

Hmm whilst this may be true, bish, our only hope of keeping the Tories out is a strong Lib Dem vote. If they wither and fade and its a straight race between Labour and the Tories, then the Tories get in with a majority.

Folk want change, our best hope is that the change is spread around.

And the Lib Dems having some power would be a good thing IMO.

I would say that even if the LibDem bubble bursts, the Tories would still fall short of a majority (though they might still be able to form a minority government) due to the anti-politics feeling amongst the electorate... and I hope none of the current Tory 'frighten the voters' tactics changes this. But, as is par for the course for this election, who knows? I suspect a lot of voters would be dismayed if one of the red/blue party had an overall majority come 7 May. This appears to be a different kind of 'change' election.

[thebish]

Lib Dems....

suddenly people have noticed them - and they are not just the friendly-but-harmless uncle sitting in the corner.

suddenly they are under some scrutiny - and (just like labour and conservative have always been) under attack from some sections of the press...

and they don't like it!! suprise surprise!! get over it luvvies - welcome to being noticed - you'd better sharpen up a bit!


re. tonight - I think it might be interesting...

many people came away from last week mistakenly thinking that the Lib Dems would scrap Trident. This is VERY FAR from being the case.... I suspect that young Nicholas might be pressd on this...

Hmm whilst this may be true, bish, our only hope of keeping the Tories out is a strong Lib Dem vote. If they wither and fade and its a straight race between Labour and the Tories, then the Tories get in with a majority.

Folk want change, our best hope is that the change is spread around.

And the Lib Dems having some power would be a good thing IMO.

I totally agree - I didn't say their surge was a bad thing - just that it will be interesting to aee how the surge holds up against real-world political skirmish - now they are taken more seriously the heat will be turned up - they don't appear to like it - if they withstand it then they will do well - but if they crumble and fall apart (as they already seem to be doing over Trident policy) then it will wither away...

(and - lest the Lib Dems moan too much - they STILL have the worst reputation (going back years) for dirty political campiagning on a local level...)

[fatshaft]

Hmm whilst this may be true, bish, our only hope of keeping the Tories out is a strong Lib Dem vote. If they wither and fade and its a straight race between Labour and the Tories, then the Tories get in with a majority.

Folk want change, our best hope is that the change is spread around.

And the Lib Dems having some power would be a good thing IMO.

Utter nonsense. There will once again be a very poor vote for Tories in Scotland, UKIP and BNP's votes will rise considerably imo as they did at the Euros, they are unlikely to win any seats, but the split especially to UKIP tends to come from Tory voters, lessening their chances in marginal seats.

It will be a hung parliament.

[BWFC_Insane]

Lib Dems....

suddenly people have noticed them - and they are not just the friendly-but-harmless uncle sitting in the corner.

suddenly they are under some scrutiny - and (just like labour and conservative have always been) under attack from some sections of the press...

and they don't like it!! suprise surprise!! get over it luvvies - welcome to being noticed - you'd better sharpen up a bit!


re. tonight - I think it might be interesting...

many people came away from last week mistakenly thinking that the Lib Dems would scrap Trident. This is VERY FAR from being the case.... I suspect that young Nicholas might be pressd on this...

Hmm whilst this may be true, bish, our only hope of keeping the Tories out is a strong Lib Dem vote. If they wither and fade and its a straight race between Labour and the Tories, then the Tories get in with a majority.

Folk want change, our best hope is that the change is spread around.

And the Lib Dems having some power would be a good thing IMO.

I totally agree - I didn't say their surge was a bad thing - just that it will be interesting to aee how the surge holds up against real-world political skirmish - now they are taken more seriously the heat will be turned up - they don't appear to like it - if they withstand it then they will do well - but if they crumble and fall apart (as they already seem to be doing over Trident policy) then it will wither away...

(and - lest the Lib Dems moan too much - they STILL have the worst reputation (going back years) for dirty political campiagning on a local level...)

There seems to be this notion that the Lib Dems are very much "airy fairy" wishy washy folk and that they aren't really cut out for the "heavyweight" politics like the other two parties.

I think thats why people like them. Because they're sick of things like PMQ's where its all "hear hear" and schoolboy style sniggering and generally pathetic behaviour.

Rightly or wrongly the Lib Dems are being seen as a breath of fresh air from all this. Personally I agree with a lot of Lib Dem principles and policies, not necessarily all of course.

I think politics could do with a really radical shake up, the way things are debated and discussed is way way out of kilter with society now. Its like 50 years out of date. I also think there is much more case for referenda on certain issues, especially socio-political ones.

Whilst for me the main thing is to "keep the Tories" out, I'm not convinced a Labour or Tory majority will achieve a sea-change in politics and engage younger people properly.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm actually warming to this big society idea.

Let's hope Dave can turn in a better showing tonight than last week.

[Gary the Enfield]

I'm actually warming to this big society idea.

Let's hope Dave can turn in a better showing tonight than last week.

Isn't the problem with a hung parliament going to mean f*ck all get's decided for four years until a party with a real majority turns up? Or am I being a little too pessimistic?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm actually warming to this big society idea.

Let's hope Dave can turn in a better showing tonight than last week.

Isn't the problem with a hung parliament going to mean f*ck all get's decided for four years until a party with a real majority turns up? Or am I being a little too pessimistic?

No not at all... I don't think we as a nation are well-equipped to function with a 'balanced' parliament either.

No, I'm looking for a Conservative majority and the implementation of their 'Big Society' (as opposed to big state) idea.

Of course, all the lefties are deriding it as something that could never work, saying, essentially, that there's no such thing as society.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm actually warming to this big society idea.

Let's hope Dave can turn in a better showing tonight than last week.

Isn't the problem with a hung parliament going to mean f*ck all get's decided for four years until a party with a real majority turns up? Or am I being a little too pessimistic?

A hung parliament might just lead to a new perspective and proper cooperation.

I agree with Nick!!!!!!!!

But seriously I do its about time politics was about making things better for the country rather than parties working to get "elected". Cooperation, proportional representation, referenda, more public interaction with MPs, better utilisation of internet technologies, why do we need MPs to spend so many days in parliament now?

These are all things I'd like to see. More cooperation, less bickering, less childish antics and a more straightforward...

we can do A) but it costs X and we won't then be able to afford B).

If we do B) we'll have to also do C) and it costs Y meaning that....

Rather than a load of twisted facts and stats and promises that aren't costed and wouldn't hold up with a simple business case anywhere else outside of Westminster!

[thebish]

I'm actually warming to this big society idea.

Let's hope Dave can turn in a better showing tonight than last week.

as long as it IS an idea and not just a catchphrase.... I would need to see some meat on bones before I thought it anything more...

have you got a grasp of what it actually means apart from the slogans "smaller government" etc...

what (in your life for instance) do you want the Gov. to back out of - and who will take on responsibility? (you? a kind local charity?) - and how will they be resourced to do so?

in which areas will cameron's govt ACTUALLY and noticeably be smaller?


eg... would you like your local council to take on MORE responsibility - and are you confident that an army of local councillors will put themselves forward to be elected for the jobs?

[Raven]

I agree with all Insane has put, would be nice for all parties to actually do what is best for the country (or what they think is best) and not just try and score points off each other or line their own pockets.

I would vote if I actually knew what they were all going to do, I believed they would actually do it, all politicians actually answered a question directly and not side step it by just sniping at the other parties.

As for the Tory parties childish posters of Brown grinning that actually puts me off them for being so pathetic and as for their leader referring himself as Dave all the time to look cool.............what a knob! Actually one of their lot was on talking about the recent air problems and twisted it so much I started to think poor old Gordon had started the volcano and was up there right now poking it with sticks to make it worse!

Not that I could ever vote Tory, not after leaving school in the Thatcher years and seeing what she got up to.

[a1]

As for the Tory parties childish posters of Brown grinning that actually puts me off them for being so pathetic !.

arent them posters teking the piss out of the ones teking the piss out of the original conservative ones?

some message [face]

sarky comment [shiny face]

actual true comment about brown [gordon browns face]

that's clever if you ask me. cleverer than the tony blair upside down eyes ones, which were shite.

almost as clever as the 'next' south park episode.

if it dont get pulled by the cowards.

[BWFC_Insane]

Clegg was very clever last night on Europe.

He knew his European policies would be unpopular with the Daily Mail reading, afternoon tea taking middle class morons.

So he tapped into something they disliked even more than Yuuuuuuurp. Paedos!

And demonstrated how the EU had helped crack a paedo ring and how the Tories had tried to block the cooperation that allowed that to happen.

I can just imagine those Daily Mailers sitting there incredibly confused, all red faced and angry not knowing what to do.

"Yuuuuuuurppppp bad yeah go Cameron go. Shut it Nick we don't want....oh paedos...but yurrrrppppp and yuuuuro....but paedos ARGHHHHHH".

Shame he couldn't have got something in about Princess Diana aswell, perhaps he could have insinuated that her crash was as a result of us not cooperating fully within the EU. My imagine how confuzzled they'd have been then!

[TANGODANCER]

Getting rid of all the "Hear-hear" Henry's" and titled landowners who pass as the House of Lords might be a start.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm actually warming to this big society idea.

Let's hope Dave can turn in a better showing tonight than last week.

as long as it IS an idea and not just a catchphrase.... I would need to see some meat on bones before I thought it anything more...

have you got a grasp of what it actually means apart from the slogans "smaller government" etc...

what (in your life for instance) do you want the Gov. to back out of - and who will take on responsibility? (you? a kind local charity?) - and how will they be resourced to do so?

in which areas will cameron's govt ACTUALLY and noticeably be smaller?


eg... would you like your local council to take on MORE responsibility - and are you confident that an army of local councillors will put themselves forward to be elected for the jobs?

All I'm saying is that promoting greater civic engagement is a good thing, and is not the sort of negative politics that everyone has become so tired of.

For me, it's desirable to promote a culture in we ask not what our country can do for us, but ask what we can do for our country!

I would like to get away from this situation we have had for the past 13 years in which the Government's only boast in any particular policy area is to do with how much of the taxpayers' cash it has spent. I'd like to get away from this culture that the way to solve any social problem is for the Government to spend another £X on it, or introduce yet another piece of criminal justice legislation etc.

You may know that I lived in Holland for a year, and I was very impressed by certain elements of their society and culture - it's the sort of place where, if there is heavy snowfall, everyone gets out and clears their own bit of pavement/road with a shovel, and the total effect is considerable, without the state ever having been involved! It's the sort of place where communities will mow and tend to the local football pitch, rather than expecting some authority to do it for them. This is the kind of social democracy I could get behind - rather than one that involves taking ever increasing amounts of people's money and spending it for them.

I agree that it's difficult to see the meat on the bones of Cameron's big idea (which is undeveloped and was introduced too late in the day to really take hold as a narrative that will affect this election much), though I do think some of the concrete proposals, such as the national citizens' service for young people is a good idea, as part of a bid to make civic engagement the norm, rather than a peculiarity.

Perhaps it is all unacceptably vague... all I'm saying is that it's vaguely something we can all support in principle (up there with motherhood and apple pie), even if we're divided in whether we trust in David Cameron and the Conservatives to actually follow it through.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Oh, and I thought the debate went better for DC last night, with Clegg going in the only direction it was possible for him to go after the heights of last week.

I have to admit though that I do find it extremely frustrating that Cameron has shown the most passion so far when talking about a few local party leaflets. The thinking is obviously that he should subdue his naturally pugnacious and combative style of debating, because it doesn't 'play well'... I have no idea whether this is true, but I would personally like to see him take the fight more to the other two, especially the PM, and just to be himself.

[thebish]

Perhaps it is all unacceptably vague... all I'm saying is that it's vaguely something we can all support in principle (up there with motherhood and apple pie), even if we're divided in whether we trust in David Cameron and the Conservatives to actually follow it through.

oh - i support it in principle - like apple pie...

but...

1. he's not exactly the first to say it - and he hasn't said precisely what he means by it or how he will achieve it. I am finding it hard to accept it is anything other than a nice-sounding phrase.

2. i also have a sneaking suspicion that it doesn't really mean what you describe. I think, for Cameron, it means cutting away more of the social safety net in favour of private insurance in increasingly more areas of our lives...

3. apart from the ubiquitous "cutting waste" mantra - I haven't heard ONE area of government (apart from this idea of fewer MPs - inner-city labour MPs!!) that Cameron is proposing we cut - in other words - not one thing that government is doing now that it wouldn't be doing under the tories.

at least with thatcher she was up front with what she meant - the govt DID do less - she de-nationalised stuff!

if anything - Cameron is proposing the govt getting involved with MORE - not least using the tax system to "reward" people who get married - the govt being more heavily involved in "social engineering"...


PS - I haven't heard Cameron's national citizens' service for young people idea - what's that then and how likely is it that he will make it happen?

[Tank]

Clegg was very clever last night on Europe.

He knew his European policies would be unpopular with the Daily Mail reading, afternoon tea taking middle class morons.

So he tapped into something they disliked even more than Yuuuuuuurp. Paedos!

And demonstrated how the EU had helped crack a paedo ring and how the Tories had tried to block the cooperation that allowed that to happen.

I can just imagine those Daily Mailers sitting there incredibly confused, all red faced and angry not knowing what to do.

"Yuuuuuuurppppp bad yeah go Cameron go. Shut it Nick we don't want....oh paedos...but yurrrrppppp and yuuuuro....but paedos ARGHHHHHH".

Shame he couldn't have got something in about Princess Diana aswell, perhaps he could have insinuated that her crash was as a result of us not cooperating fully within the EU. My imagine how confuzzled they'd have been then!

I'm sure the working class of Britain will agree entirely with that post, what with the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians now working over here.

I don't know you, but I would hope you are not in politics, or you would end coming across more clueless than the three morons on the TV last night.

Gordon Brown's bath time joke was funnier than that entire post.

[Prufrock]

Clegg was very clever last night on Europe.

He knew his European policies would be unpopular with the Daily Mail reading, afternoon tea taking middle class morons.

So he tapped into something they disliked even more than Yuuuuuuurp. Paedos!

And demonstrated how the EU had helped crack a paedo ring and how the Tories had tried to block the cooperation that allowed that to happen.

I can just imagine those Daily Mailers sitting there incredibly confused, all red faced and angry not knowing what to do.

"Yuuuuuuurppppp bad yeah go Cameron go. Shut it Nick we don't want....oh paedos...but yurrrrppppp and yuuuuro....but paedos ARGHHHHHH".

Shame he couldn't have got something in about Princess Diana aswell, perhaps he could have insinuated that her crash was as a result of us not cooperating fully within the EU. My imagine how confuzzled they'd have been then!

I'm sure the working class of Britain will agree entirely with that post, what with the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians now working over here.

I don't know you, but I would hope you are not in politics, or you would end coming across more clueless than the three morons on the TV last night.

Gordon Brown's bath time joke was funnier than that entire post.

Go see Doug Stanhope tackle that bullsh*t argument. It's always indirect, no-one ever knows anyone who has had their job 'taken'. People don't want to do shitty jobs for shit pay. I've worked on a factory line alongside loads of polish people, and there was nothing stopping the company taking on English folk, in fact often they did. It was a semi-skilled job, but with training provided, and if you turned up for interview motivated and with a desire to work there is no reason an English person wouldn't get the job. But it was boring, and not massively paid , though not badly either, so people didn't want it. If somebody comes over here, without speaking the language that well, and with no qualifications, and they are still better qualified for your job than you, there's only one person to blame.

[BWFC_Insane]

Clegg was very clever last night on Europe.

He knew his European policies would be unpopular with the Daily Mail reading, afternoon tea taking middle class morons.

So he tapped into something they disliked even more than Yuuuuuuurp. Paedos!

And demonstrated how the EU had helped crack a paedo ring and how the Tories had tried to block the cooperation that allowed that to happen.

I can just imagine those Daily Mailers sitting there incredibly confused, all red faced and angry not knowing what to do.

"Yuuuuuuurppppp bad yeah go Cameron go. Shut it Nick we don't want....oh paedos...but yurrrrppppp and yuuuuro....but paedos ARGHHHHHH".

Shame he couldn't have got something in about Princess Diana aswell, perhaps he could have insinuated that her crash was as a result of us not cooperating fully within the EU. My imagine how confuzzled they'd have been then!

I'm sure the working class of Britain will agree entirely with that post, what with the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians now working over here.

I don't know you, but I would hope you are not in politics, or you would end coming across more clueless than the three morons on the TV last night.

Gordon Brown's bath time joke was funnier than that entire post.

I don't understand your point.

Are you saying that Cleggs response to the question on the EU was not clever in the way it deflected the issue to something where it would be very difficult for people not to agree with his point of view?

And as for the Eastern European workers arriving to take jobs, I was under the impression that, recently that had markedly declined. And thats the "free market" in action. And if you think pulling out of the EU will do anything for British jobs other than cause rising unemployment then you're in for a massive shock!