The Politics Thread

[thebish]

And I appreciate all of the above, but notwithstanding, why cut more than is necessary? It seems like a bit of political point scoring to me.

as I said - I don't know if they have or haven't - can you back up the claim?

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

From what's been said by the Government, it seems Manchester City Council (run by Labour) have ignored the requests that were given to them to cut 15% over two years in order to cut 25%. They've also, according to reports, made sure the cuts are made to the most publicly required services rather than back end stuff.

If this is true, then I'm afraid that's despicable, childish and unnecessary from the council.

[thebish]

From what's been said by the Government, it seems Manchester City Council (run by Labour) have ignored the requests that were given to them to cut 15% over two years in order to cut 25%. They've also, according to reports, made sure the cuts are made to the most publicly required services rather than back end stuff.

If this is true, then I'm afraid that's despicable, childish and unnecessary from the council.

sounds as reliable as the transfer thread....

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

From what's been said by the Government, it seems Manchester City Council (run by Labour) have ignored the requests that were given to them to cut 15% over two years in order to cut 25%. They've also, according to reports, made sure the cuts are made to the most publicly required services rather than back end stuff.

If this is true, then I'm afraid that's despicable, childish and unnecessary from the council.

sounds as reliable as the transfer thread....

When it looks like it's not the Government who have told the council that they have to cut a quarter of their output in such a brutal way, and the absolute figures aren't completely published, then I'm not going to give anything that isn't absolute fact and evidence.

But your words were "such huge cuts are imposed on local councils", when according to the Government such cuts that the council are making aren't being imposed, more being thrown in so they can smack the Government around the head with it. And, if they are making cuts that are way above what's being askled of them to do, it's the worst kind of dummy spitting that plays around with people's lives when there is absolutely no need to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12399527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - here's what one minister says about it.

[thebish]

From what's been said by the Government, it seems Manchester City Council (run by Labour) have ignored the requests that were given to them to cut 15% over two years in order to cut 25%. They've also, according to reports, made sure the cuts are made to the most publicly required services rather than back end stuff.

If this is true, then I'm afraid that's despicable, childish and unnecessary from the council.

sounds as reliable as the transfer thread....

When it looks like it's not the Government who have told the council that they have to cut a quarter of their output in such a brutal way, and the absolute figures aren't completely published, then I'm not going to give anything that isn't absolute fact and evidence.

But your words were "such huge cuts are imposed on local councils", when according to the Government such cuts that the council are making aren't being imposed, more being thrown in so they can smack the Government around the head with it. And, if they are making cuts that are way above what's being askled of them to do, it's the worst kind of dummy spitting that plays around with people's lives when there is absolutely no need to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12399527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - here's what one minister says about it.

hmmm... like i said - i don't know if the council has exceeded what was necessary - if they have in order to make a point - then it is wrong and crass - but also a bit stupid because it is the labour council who will take the rap - that's how it works - bins not being collected are blamed on the local council.

however - the only word I have heard that this IS the case is the government - and your video of a government minister.

I hope I might be excused for suggesting that is not necessarily conclusive! (it would certainly be in the government's interest to have people believe this is the case..)

[Lord Kangana]

Certainly. I would also expect a rebuke in the near future were he to be "being economical with the truth". It would be political suicide to do otherwise.

[thebish]

Certainly. I would also expect a rebuke in the near future were he to be "being economical with the truth". It would be political suicide to do otherwise.

you really think so?? such matters are very easily dismissed...

[Lord Kangana]

I'd still ike to hear the leader of Manchester City Council deny it, and then you can post the link. Even if only 3 of us on the internet are interested.

[thebish]

I'd still ike to hear the leader of Manchester City Council deny it, and then you can post the link. Even if only 3 of us on the internet are interested.

if you hear it - you can post it!

anyway - the conservative shropshire county council (presumably in a cynical political point-scoring abuse of their people) is proposing to close 9 schools in order to save money...

[Lord Kangana]

By criticising Manchester City council I'm not exhonerating others. Personally it leaves a bad taste in the mout that so many public librararies are going around the country without some suitable replacement being put in place. Such as internet rooms or somesuch etc etc ad infinitum (ie a public space for the use of all to have access to "knowledge").

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

hmmm... like i said - i don't know if the council has exceeded what was necessary - if they have in order to make a point - then it is wrong and crass - but also a bit stupid because it is the labour council who will take the rap - that's how it works - bins not being collected are blamed on the local council.

however - the only word I have heard that this IS the case is the government - and your video of a government minister.

I hope I might be excused for suggesting that is not necessarily conclusive! (it would certainly be in the government's interest to have people believe this is the case..)

Well, if you can find where anyone on this thread has said that it IS conclusive, rather than people saying that the level of cuts may not be indicative of what the Government have imposed of councils, then I'd be happy to concur.

[thebish]

By criticising Manchester City council I'm not exhonerating others.

I know. really!

I chose manchester because it was the latest and closest - that's all. If it is shown that they are point-scoring with un-necessary cuts - then they are worthy of scorn and should be voted out... it also would have been a nice gesture for the council leader to take a pay cut - which, it seems, he hasn't...

however... I am not about to take as fact the gov's account of what is happening...

I printed the full list of the cuts simply because it puts flesh on bones and numbers - what cuts at this level will actually mean - when the government repeatedly tried to persuade the electorate that it could all quite easily be absorbed in back-office efficiency measures. that is bollox and was always bollox - and is reflected in what is actually happening in councils of all political flavours all across the country.

for my area - I sit on the board of HAVCO - the borough-wide voluntary sector umbrella association - we deliver loads of services that the local council should be providing - they contract them out - not least on youth provision and particularly in delivering training and other opportinities to difficult-to-reach young people - so-called "neets"....

the funding that makes this possible is being totally trashed - which means it simply won't happen anymore... we have a tory council - even THEY are not finding the savings in back-office efficiencies - why? - because they are not there...

[thebish]

Well, if you can find where anyone on this thread has said that it IS conclusive, rather than people saying that the level of cuts may not be indicative of what the Government have imposed of councils, then I'd be happy to concur.

I didn't say anyone has said it is conclusive - did I? I merely said that I am sceptical about what the way a gov. minister might describe the situation... I still am!

[Worthy4England]

From what's been said by the Government, it seems Manchester City Council (run by Labour) have ignored the requests that were given to them to cut 15% over two years in order to cut 25%. They've also, according to reports, made sure the cuts are made to the most publicly required services rather than back end stuff.

If this is true, then I'm afraid that's despicable, childish and unnecessary from the council.

sounds as reliable as the transfer thread....

When it looks like it's not the Government who have told the council that they have to cut a quarter of their output in such a brutal way, and the absolute figures aren't completely published, then I'm not going to give anything that isn't absolute fact and evidence.

But your words were "such huge cuts are imposed on local councils", when according to the Government such cuts that the council are making aren't being imposed, more being thrown in so they can smack the Government around the head with it. And, if they are making cuts that are way above what's being askled of them to do, it's the worst kind of dummy spitting that plays around with people's lives when there is absolutely no need to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12399527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - here's what one minister says about it.

hmmm... like i said - i don't know if the council has exceeded what was necessary - if they have in order to make a point - then it is wrong and crass - but also a bit stupid because it is the labour council who will take the rap - that's how it works - bins not being collected are blamed on the local council.

however - the only word I have heard that this IS the case is the government - and your video of a government minister.

I hope I might be excused for suggesting that is not necessarily conclusive! (it would certainly be in the government's interest to have people believe this is the case..)

I'm missing something here, somewhere. Manchester Council's Revenue spending power - combining their various income sources (Council Tax, Central Govt Grant, NHS funding and Transitional Grants) was set at £624m for 2010/11. By the time we get to 2012/13 and the cuts have been undertaken etc. their Revenue Spending power is £522m - So a difference of 16% lower than that which was anticipated over two years?

What that doesn't calculate, is the impact of costs rising on the spending power that you have - which of course would be impacted by rising costs - inflation is increasing at the moment, as are fuel prices (with all the associatied knock on effects) and utility prices, some of them inordinately.

You could envisage a route to 25% cuts from a decrease in revenue of 16% fairly comfortably I think?

[Lord Kangana]

Its very plausible, I'd just like to hear a spokesperson for Manchester give their side of the story. Then the witch hunt can begin in ernest.

[Lofthouse Lower]

yeah

[Worthy4England]

Its very plausible, I'd just like to hear a spokesperson for Manchester give their side of the story. Then the witch hunt can begin in ernest.

Their side of the story is all detailed here...

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/budgetproposals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They've given the "high level version" on numerous occasions in the press

[Hoboh]

Its very plausible, I'd just like to hear a spokesperson for Manchester give their side of the story. Then the witch hunt can begin in ernest.

Their side of the story is all detailed here...

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/budgetproposals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They've given the "high level version" on numerous occasions in the press

If you really read all that lot!!! your party invite is with the trash

[thebish]

Its very plausible, I'd just like to hear a spokesperson for Manchester give their side of the story. Then the witch hunt can begin in ernest.

Their side of the story is all detailed here...

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/budgetproposals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They've given the "high level version" on numerous occasions in the press

If you really read all that lot!!! your party invite is with the trash

ahh - that old reading - pah - old fashioned!

[Worthy4England]

Its very plausible, I'd just like to hear a spokesperson for Manchester give their side of the story. Then the witch hunt can begin in ernest.

Their side of the story is all detailed here...

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/budgetproposals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They've given the "high level version" on numerous occasions in the press

If you really read all that lot!!! your party invite is with the trash

I didn't.

LK seemed to want more info, so I just pointed him to some...everything you never wanted to know about Manchester Council's budget and more!