The Religion Thread

[thebish]

.... but if God is omnipresent and Jesus is the Son of God made flesh then surely he must have, in some pedantic way, set foot upon England's green and pleasant land?

Assuming he still had feet at the time.... (England not existing for some centuries after Christ was walking about). I seem to recall the feet were on the mountains green, but I'll leave the answer to your complex question to others better qualified to respond.

Ah, but God is also Omnipotent. He would have known that England WOULD exist. And at some juncture the hills of the pennines were as high as mountains.

I suspect you are mixing up Omnipotent with Omniscient (or possibly, omnibus..)

[Montreal Wanderer]

I'm not sure we can trust even this weakish attempt to wriggle free since these arguments require accuracy to the point of pedantry. Apart from the fact you should have qualified the assertion with "According to some German linguist's study of Luke..." (where I could have seen your Luke and raised you two evangelists), Ernst Doblhofer was not German.

I concede that it is a very weak escape attempt, but that's the nature of the beast... leopards hate being caught. Plus, I was using my memory which I shouldn't have done, not without checking the facts first.
So you win.
(Waddya mean he wasn't German? )

Er... because, being born in Eferding, he was Austrian.

Ernst Doblhofer (* 2. September 1919 in Eferding; † 25. Dezember 2002 in Graz) war ein österreichischer Klassischer Philologe.

[TANGODANCER]

Actually, Tango, it was a poem first and foremost by William Blake, written at the beginning of the nineteenth century. The music did not come for over a century later, when it was adopted as a hymn by many different sects.

I know. In my life time it's a hymn.

[Beefheart]

.... but if God is omnipresent and Jesus is the Son of God made flesh then surely he must have, in some pedantic way, set foot upon England's green and pleasant land?

Assuming he still had feet at the time.... (England not existing for some centuries after Christ was walking about). I seem to recall the feet were on the mountains green, but I'll leave the answer to your complex question to others better qualified to respond.

Ah, but God is also Omnipotent. He would have known that England WOULD exist. And at some juncture the hills of the pennines were as high as mountains.

I suspect you are mixing up Omnipotent with Omniscient (or possibly, omnibus..)

So it's Omnipotent-All powerful?
Omniscient-All knowing?
Omnipresent-All over the fecking place?

[Gary the Enfield]

.... but if God is omnipresent and Jesus is the Son of God made flesh then surely he must have, in some pedantic way, set foot upon England's green and pleasant land?

Assuming he still had feet at the time.... (England not existing for some centuries after Christ was walking about). I seem to recall the feet were on the mountains green, but I'll leave the answer to your complex question to others better qualified to respond.

Ah, but God is also Omnipotent. He would have known that England WOULD exist. And at some juncture the hills of the pennines were as high as mountains.

I suspect you are mixing up Omnipotent with Omniscient (or possibly, omnibus..)

I suspect you're right. But would his omniscience not be considered a symptom of his omnipotence?

[thebish]

I suspect you're right. But would his omniscience not be considered a symptom of his omnipotence?

not sure - and don't really care as these are not the words that I'd use to categorise or "define" God - they were words used in theological debates and conflicts fought many hundreds of years ago and bear little relevance to the world as we think about it today...

however... to answer your question..

no - i don;t think so! Omnipotence is generally thought of as unlimited power to do stuff... omniscience is about knowing stuff...

are doing and knowing the same thing? who knows!

it can all get a bit silly - which is why this kind of language isn't really helpful/useful...

f'rinstance...

does God know what he is going to do next Tuesday? If so - can he change his mind and do summat else? if he can't change his mind - he's not omnipotent.. if he doesn't know in advance he was gonna change his mind - he's not omniscient... etc.. until your eyelids dry up...

and God disappears in a puff of his own logic!

[TANGODANCER]

So it's Omnipotent-All powerful?
Omniscient-All knowing?
Omnipresent-All over the fecking place?

He's also omnivident, so watch your steps.

[thebish]

So it's Omnipotent-All powerful?
Omniscient-All knowing?
Omnipresent-All over the fecking place?

as good a summary as any!

is all pretty useless and meaningless though..

if God is omnipotent - can he make something so heavy that he can't pick it up???

hmmmm....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So it's Omnipotent-All powerful?
Omniscient-All knowing?
Omnipresent-All over the fecking place?

as good a summary as any!

is all pretty useless and meaningless though..

if God is omnipotent - can he make something so heavy that he can't pick it up???

hmmmm....

No. But I bet Thor could... pick it up that is.

So, theBish (more intriguement) do you think God created the Universe?
[I suspect you're going to say no, but I'm only laying 60/40 odds on that]

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Er... because, being born in Eferding, he was Austrian.

Ernst Doblhofer (* 2. September 1919 in Eferding; † 25. Dezember 2002 in Graz) war ein österreichischer Klassischer Philologe.

Ahh. I see. His blurb on the back flap of the dust jacket just said he's a German professor of Classical Philology at Kiel University, hence my confusion.

[Gary the Enfield]

Er... because, being born in Eferding, he was Austrian.

Ernst Doblhofer (* 2. September 1919 in Eferding; † 25. Dezember 2002 in Graz) war ein österreichischer Klassischer Philologe.

Ahh. I see. His blurb on the back flap of the dust jacket just said he's a German professor of Classical Philology at Kiel University, hence my confusion.

Perhaps he was annexed during ze Var.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Er... because, being born in Eferding, he was Austrian.

Ernst Doblhofer (* 2. September 1919 in Eferding; † 25. Dezember 2002 in Graz) war ein österreichischer Klassischer Philologe.

Ahh. I see. His blurb on the back flap of the dust jacket just said he's a German professor of Classical Philology at Kiel University, hence my confusion.

Perhaps he was annexed during ze Var.

Listen, don't mention ze Var. You mentioned it once, but I think you got away with it all right.

[Gary the Enfield]

Er... because, being born in Eferding, he was Austrian.

Ernst Doblhofer (* 2. September 1919 in Eferding; † 25. Dezember 2002 in Graz) war ein österreichischer Klassischer Philologe.

Ahh. I see. His blurb on the back flap of the dust jacket just said he's a German professor of Classical Philology at Kiel University, hence my confusion.

Perhaps he was annexed during ze Var.

Listen, don't mention ze Var. You mentioned it once, but I think you got away with it all right.

[TANGODANCER]

So it's Omnipotent-All powerful?
Omniscient-All knowing?
Omnipresent-All over the fecking place?

as good a summary as any!

is all pretty useless and meaningless though..

if God is omnipotent - can he make something so heavy that he can't pick it up???

hmmmm....

No. But I bet Thor could... pick it up that is.

So, theBish (more intriguement) do you think God created the Universe?
[I suspect you're going to say no, but I'm only laying 60/40 odds on that]

Atlas is the guy who picks the heavy stuff up.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Atlas & Thor: for all your moving needs. No job too large.

[TANGODANCER]

Atlas & Thor: for all your moving needs. No job too large.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Er... because, being born in Eferding, he was Austrian.

Ernst Doblhofer (* 2. September 1919 in Eferding; † 25. Dezember 2002 in Graz) war ein österreichischer Klassischer Philologe.

Ahh. I see. His blurb on the back flap of the dust jacket just said he's a German professor of Classical Philology at Kiel University, hence my confusion.

Well, he did spend some time at Kiel, though more at Graz where he died.

Ernst Doblhofer bestand 1937 in Steyr die Matura, konnte jedoch sein Studium wegen des Militärdienstes nicht beginnen. 1942 kehrte er schwer verwundet von der Front zurück und begann ein Studium der Klassischen Philologie, Geschichte, Anglistik und Germanistik an der Universität Wien. Bereits 1943 wurde er erneut zum Zweiten Weltkrieg eingezogen. Ab 1945 setzte er sein Studium an der Universität Graz fort, wo er das Studium 1948 mit der Promotion abschloss.

Anschließend arbeitete Doblhofer als Gymnasiallehrer (ab 1955 Gymnasialprofessor) am Gymnasium in Graz. Nebenbei veröffentlichte er Übersetzungen aus dem Englischen und hielt Lehrveranstaltungen an der Universität Graz ab, wo er sich 1964 habilitierte. 1971 wurde er als Nachfolger von Erich Burck auf den Lehrstuhl für Latinistik an der Christian-Albrechts-Universität Kiel berufen, wo er bis zu seiner Emeritierung wirkte (1984). Seinen Ruhestand verbrachte er in Graz.

Doblhofer ist neben seinen zahlreichen Übersetzungen hauptsächlich für zwei Werke bekannt: Seinen Forschungsbericht zu Horaz (1957, Nachdruck 1992) und seine Abhandlung Zeichen und Wunder. Die Entzifferung alter Schriften und Sprachen (erstmals 1957), die mehrere Auflagen erlebte und ins Englische, Französische, Italienische, Niederländische, Russische, Slowakische und Ungarische übersetzt wurde.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

You are an absolute mine of information, auch sprechen Sie Deutsch?

[Montreal Wanderer]

You are an absolute mine of information, auch sprechen Sie Deutsch?

No, just a retired librarian who spent a lifetime looking things up.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Breaking News (if news 2000 years late can be called breaking!)
Apparently more evidence that Christ was married: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/0/19660805

I'd heard this [that Christ was married] before (in some book, but don't recall which one). It said that the wedding feast at Cana was proof that Jesus was married - the logic was that in ancient Jewish society it was the bridegroom's duty to provide the wine and thus when the wine ran out Mary Magdalene would only have asked Christ to provide more if he was the bridegroom, and also when the steward congratulates the bridegroom on departing from the custom of serving the best wine first by serving it last that passage only makes sense if he's congratulating Christ (i.e. the bridegroom) who has just provided the best/last wine through the miracle of water into wine.