bloody norah... :-(

[plymouth wanderer]

you can of course have me down as anything you like, but the fact I lived abroad for three years and loved every minute of it should disabuse you of any idea I'm xenophobic.
As for what I'm pointing out being racist, You're either having a laugh or not thinking straight. WTF has Islam got to do with race?
As I pointed out in a post above^ I have questions for a white English woman. Those questions regarded religion, nothing to do with race.
The murderers yesterday were black, which has nothing to do with it either. I don't care if they were paraplegic Chinese dwarves with transgendered issues. But clearly, if you hadn't noticed, they were quite categoric in being identified as Muslim.

So that white man who stabbed a Muslim to death....does that mean that all white men are in fact to be hated as well?

To be honest I'm afraid to say that whether you call it racism or prejudice and discrimination you are falling into that category. You can't hate all members of a race or a religion or whatever, because of the actions of a few. Especially selectively.

I'll rephrase that, you can obviously hate them, but it is very very very wrong to do so.

What was the white man's motivation, Religion?

[as]

Are we at the 'muslims are the victims here' stage yet?

I avoid all media coverage on things like this as I tend to read the Guardian and it's usually 'all our fault'.

Galloway commented yet? I admire him as a speaker but would pay to watch someone go at him with a machete.....

if you don't want to know - don't ask! but - no, we're not... in truth, though - the most numerous victims of international terrorist attacks by assorted groups are muslims...

So it is our fault then?

I blame the EDL!

[plymouth wanderer]

From BBC

The Muslim Council of Britain has condemned the Woolwich attack. "This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly," its statement said.

The Muslim Council of Britain's statement continued: "Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the Armed Forces. Muslims have long served in this country's Armed Forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the Armed Forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder."

What else do you expect them to say

[as]

Bad publicity for the muslim-led Labour council in Bolton too......!

[thebish]

Are we at the 'muslims are the victims here' stage yet?

I avoid all media coverage on things like this as I tend to read the Guardian and it's usually 'all our fault'.

Galloway commented yet? I admire him as a speaker but would pay to watch someone go at him with a machete.....

if you don't want to know - don't ask! but - no, we're not... in truth, though - the most numerous victims of international terrorist attacks by assorted groups are muslims...

So it is our fault then?

eh? where did I say that?

most victims of terrorist attacks across the world are muslims.. it's just a fact. so - in a sense (though not the one you were floating) - Muslims are usually the victims of terrorist attacks - by FAR the most terrorist attacks happen in muslim countries - and so it stands to reason that muslims bear the brunt...

[BWFC_Insane]

you can of course have me down as anything you like, but the fact I lived abroad for three years and loved every minute of it should disabuse you of any idea I'm xenophobic.
As for what I'm pointing out being racist, You're either having a laugh or not thinking straight. WTF has Islam got to do with race?
As I pointed out in a post above^ I have questions for a white English woman. Those questions regarded religion, nothing to do with race.
The murderers yesterday were black, which has nothing to do with it either. I don't care if they were paraplegic Chinese dwarves with transgendered issues. But clearly, if you hadn't noticed, they were quite categoric in being identified as Muslim.

So that white man who stabbed a Muslim to death....does that mean that all white men are in fact to be hated as well?

To be honest I'm afraid to say that whether you call it racism or prejudice and discrimination you are falling into that category. You can't hate all members of a race or a religion or whatever, because of the actions of a few. Especially selectively.

I'll rephrase that, you can obviously hate them, but it is very very very wrong to do so.

What was the white man's motivation, Religion?

I've no idea, it is being labelled a "hate crime" so very possibly race and religion yes.

Though I don't see why it makes any difference. It's just as bad and just as wrong in both cases.

In neither case is it a good excuse to justify racial or religious hatred. And that will only make things worse.

[thebish]

you can of course have me down as anything you like, but the fact I lived abroad for three years and loved every minute of it should disabuse you of any idea I'm xenophobic.
As for what I'm pointing out being racist, You're either having a laugh or not thinking straight. WTF has Islam got to do with race?
As I pointed out in a post above^ I have questions for a white English woman. Those questions regarded religion, nothing to do with race.
The murderers yesterday were black, which has nothing to do with it either. I don't care if they were paraplegic Chinese dwarves with transgendered issues. But clearly, if you hadn't noticed, they were quite categoric in being identified as Muslim.

So that white man who stabbed a Muslim to death....does that mean that all white men are in fact to be hated as well?

To be honest I'm afraid to say that whether you call it racism or prejudice and discrimination you are falling into that category. You can't hate all members of a race or a religion or whatever, because of the actions of a few. Especially selectively.

I'll rephrase that, you can obviously hate them, but it is very very very wrong to do so.

What was the white man's motivation, Religion?

dunno! they haven't caught the bloke yet... the police think it is a racist attack... as such - it could very easily fit some of the definitions that are used to describe a terrorist attack... for instance: "a surprise attack involving the deliberate use of violence against civilians in the hope of attaining political or religious aims."

[Lost Leopard Spot]

you can of course have me down as anything you like, but the fact I lived abroad for three years and loved every minute of it should disabuse you of any idea I'm xenophobic.
As for what I'm pointing out being racist, You're either having a laugh or not thinking straight. WTF has Islam got to do with race?
As I pointed out in a post above^ I have questions for a white English woman. Those questions regarded religion, nothing to do with race.
The murderers yesterday were black, which has nothing to do with it either. I don't care if they were paraplegic Chinese dwarves with transgendered issues. But clearly, if you hadn't noticed, they were quite categoric in being identified as Muslim.

So that white man who stabbed a Muslim to death....does that mean that all white men are in fact to be hated as well?

To be honest I'm afraid to say that whether you call it racism or prejudice and discrimination you are falling into that category. You can't hate all members of a race or a religion or whatever, because of the actions of a few. Especially selectively.

I'll rephrase that, you can obviously hate them, but it is very very very wrong to do so.

He was probably a racist and as such, yes I can codemn all racists. Was he part of a huge problem that plagues the World: probably, yes all racists should be rooted out and eliminated. So, vice versa, when you look at the workd wide slaughter and destruction carried out in the name of religion, why are we not rooting out that evil?

[BWFC_Insane]

you can of course have me down as anything you like, but the fact I lived abroad for three years and loved every minute of it should disabuse you of any idea I'm xenophobic.
As for what I'm pointing out being racist, You're either having a laugh or not thinking straight. WTF has Islam got to do with race?
As I pointed out in a post above^ I have questions for a white English woman. Those questions regarded religion, nothing to do with race.
The murderers yesterday were black, which has nothing to do with it either. I don't care if they were paraplegic Chinese dwarves with transgendered issues. But clearly, if you hadn't noticed, they were quite categoric in being identified as Muslim.

So that white man who stabbed a Muslim to death....does that mean that all white men are in fact to be hated as well?

To be honest I'm afraid to say that whether you call it racism or prejudice and discrimination you are falling into that category. You can't hate all members of a race or a religion or whatever, because of the actions of a few. Especially selectively.

I'll rephrase that, you can obviously hate them, but it is very very very wrong to do so.

He was probably a racist and as such, yes I can codemn all racists. Was he part of a huge problem that plagues the World: probably, yes all racists should be rooted out and eliminated. So, vice versa, when you look at the workd wide slaughter and destruction carried out in the name of religion, why are we not rooting out that evil?

Root out bad people sure. But that does not include all Muslims does it? No more than saying cos of the sectarian violence and terrorism all Catholics are evil!

[TANGODANCER]

So, vice versa, when you look at the world wide slaughter and destruction carried out in the name of religion, why are we not rooting out that evil?

Same answer as always, because it isn't religion that's to blame is why; just those who use it for their own ends and say they're doing it in some version of God's name. Not like it's a new thing really is it? Totally about territory. It's a collective battle banner to assemble under, cross, crescent or whatever symbol associates with religions. What's the real difference between Catholic and Church of England religions? Is it enough to have two factions of a country at each others' throats? The Irish thinks so, although they know damn well it's about territory and nothing to do with religion..as it ever was..

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So, vice versa, when you look at the world wide slaughter and destruction carried out in the name of religion, why are we not rooting out that evil?

Same answer as always, because it isn't religion that's to blame is why; just those who use it for their own ends and say they're doing it in some version of God's name. Not like it's a new thing really is it? Totally about territory. It's a collective battle banner to assemble under, cross, crescent or whatever symbol associates with religions. What's the real difference between Catholic and Church of England religions? Is it enough to have two factions of a country at each others' throats? The Irish thinks so, although they know damn well it's about territory and nothing to do with religion..as it ever was..

You've raised an extremely valid point here, though I suspect you don't realise it. You see as a religion Islam carries a couple of tenets that make it slightly different other religions. These are Jihad and Umma. The umma is not only the community of Islam, it is also the territory controlled by Islam. Jihad is not just holy war it is the religious duty of all Muslims to expand the umma through holy war.
The main problem with Muslims (from my perspective) is that they want where I live to be part of the umma, because ultimately they desire the conversion of all the world into the umma.
If you look at a map of the world and colour in all the Muslim countries and then plot all the wars in the last decade or two you'll see a startling correlation. On the centre you will see conflicts between Shiites and Sunni over control of the umma, but around the fringes, all the fringes, you'll see where Muslims are trying to expand the umma: Nigeria, Mali, Dagestan, Bosnia, Chechnya, India, China, Philippines, Somalia, Eritrea, the list goes on. So no, not quite the same as Protestant v Catholic though that is obnoxious enough.

[thebish]

though it is possible you will dismiss my comments again as "just defending the religious because you also believe in that shit", I think you have fallen (I hope not deliberately) into the trap of translating "Jihad" as "Holy War"... I suspect you know this (you sometimes come across as fairly intelligent) but are not in a mood to consider a position fairly...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

though it is possible you will dismiss my comments again as "just defending the religious because you also believe in that shit", I think you have fallen (I hope not deliberately) into the trap of translating "Jihad" as "Holy War"... I suspect you know this (you sometimes come across as fairly intelligent) but are not in a mood to consider a position fairly...

I'm perfectly aware of what jihad is: the struggle against unbelievers, or the internal struggle against unbelief.
And no I don't need quotes from the Koran thrown at me. Here's a consideration before you do: the Hadith, which is as canonical as the Koran, has as much as you can swallow on what to do and how to do it against the Unbeliever.
You are a believer, I am an Unbeliever. You, personally might not be threatening me with a nasty death, but Islam is. Or are you saying I'm wrong, as you too seem on the face of it to be quite intelligent.

[thebish]

though it is possible you will dismiss my comments again as "just defending the religious because you also believe in that shit", I think you have fallen (I hope not deliberately) into the trap of translating "Jihad" as "Holy War"... I suspect you know this (you sometimes come across as fairly intelligent) but are not in a mood to consider a position fairly...

I'm perfectly aware of what jihad is: the struggle against unbelievers, or the internal struggle against unbelief.
And no I don't need quotes from the Koran thrown at me.

I didn't quote the Koran and have no intention of doing so.

(if - as you say - you were perfectly aware that Jihad does not mean "Holy War" - then it was disingenuous to say it did.)

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And also next time I'm pleading for my life on a train in Uttar Pradesh when Muslim gunmen get on and start shooting westerners, I'll remember that it's nothing to do with religion. I'll point this out shall I as they prepare to shoot proclaiming all the time that, actually, it is all about religion... Yea, I'll try that next time.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

though it is possible you will dismiss my comments again as "just defending the religious because you also believe in that shit", I think you have fallen (I hope not deliberately) into the trap of translating "Jihad" as "Holy War"... I suspect you know this (you sometimes come across as fairly intelligent) but are not in a mood to consider a position fairly...

I'm perfectly aware of what jihad is: the struggle against unbelievers, or the internal struggle against unbelief.
And no I don't need quotes from the Koran thrown at me.

I didn't quote the Koran and have no intention of doing so.

(if - as you say - you were perfectly aware that Jihad does not mean "Holy War" - then it was disingenuous to say it did.)

It can be translated as exactly that. The fact it also has other meanings hardly makes it disingeneous of me, now does it?

[Montreal Wanderer]

I'm perfectly aware of what jihad is: the struggle against unbelievers, or the internal struggle against unbelief.
And no I don't need quotes from the Koran thrown at me. Here's a consideration before you do: the Hadith, which is as canonical as the Koran, has as much as you can swallow on what to do and how to do it against the Unbeliever.
You are a believer, I am an Unbeliever. You, personally might not be threatening me with a nasty death, but Islam is. Or are you saying I'm wrong, as you too seem on the face of it to be quite intelligent.

Are you referring to the Shia or the Sunni Hadith here? Also, as you say, the greater struggle is internal to each individual while the lesser struggle is against the enemies of Islam. I had understood this lesser struggle does not have to be violent and that violence should only be used as a response if those enemies use violence. If this is so (I am no expert) it seems to me that there could be Moslems who are not committed to the expansion of the Ummah in the same way not all of Christianity is committed to proselytizing non-Christians.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

though it is possible you will dismiss my comments again as "just defending the religious because you also believe in that shit", I think you have fallen (I hope not deliberately) into the trap of translating "Jihad" as "Holy War"... I suspect you know this (you sometimes come across as fairly intelligent) but are not in a mood to consider a position fairly...

Wow, I honestly had no idea you'd take that so much to heart. I've just tried to PM and you seem to have turned that facility off. If you've done that because you don't want me polluting your life, then I sincerely apologise.
Tell you what, I'll feck off for a few days, go have a wander in the mountains, escape from humanity and their 'wonderful' works. Come back refreshed.

[thebish]

And also next time I'm pleading for my life on a train in Uttar Pradesh when Muslim gunmen get on and start shooting westerners, I'll remember that it's nothing to do with religion. I'll point this out shall I as they prepare to shoot proclaiming all the time that, actually, it is all about religion... Yea, I'll try that next time.

ok - you do that!

[thebish]

though it is possible you will dismiss my comments again as "just defending the religious because you also believe in that shit", I think you have fallen (I hope not deliberately) into the trap of translating "Jihad" as "Holy War"... I suspect you know this (you sometimes come across as fairly intelligent) but are not in a mood to consider a position fairly...

Wow, I honestly had no idea you'd take that so much to heart. I've just tried to PM and you seem to have turned that facility off. If you've done that because you don't want me polluting your life, then I sincerely apologise.
Tell you what, I'll feck off for a few days, go have a wander in the mountains, escape from humanity and their 'wonderful' works. Come back refreshed.

LOL! cos everything is about you!! get over yourself!!