The Politics Thread

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

And I didn't say it was meaningless - I just questioned what its basis was.

[Bruce Rioja]

but none of this would amount to the kind of statistical evidence you are searching for

I'm not really searching for it.

Actually I expected what you said to be the case - that it's hard to generalise and is a very fractured picture. Incidentally, I have noticed that you, as somebody who is actually involved in these things, don't seem to generalise and point score a lot on this subject matter.

I just wondered whether, when people say things like the following, it is based on very much:

That said - a rising number of foodbanks are supporting people in work - in the precarious way so many are. Zero hours contracts. Part time jobs. Minimum wage.

Ho hum... It means what it says at every point...

Foodbanks are supporting people who are in work. and say they have seen numbers increase.

Work is precarious for so many. In all three ways identified.

This may be meaningless to you.

Less so, I suspect, for those needing to use foodbanks.

It doesn't mean any more than that. Or any less.

But because of Ian Duncan Smith we've no idea as to what's going on, according to thebish. Do you contribute food towards food banks, William?

[thebish]

Foodbanks are supporting people who are in work. and say they have seen numbers increase.

Bish says they are not being given this information and that they are not collecting it themselves.

to be fair - Bish says they are not being given this information by ONE of the agencies that refers people - the government one...

[thebish]

But because of Ian Duncan Smith we've no idea as to what's going on, according to thebish. Do you contribute food towards food banks, William?

not quite - what I said was that ONE of the agencies - the government one - is not collecting information. It is undoubtedly the case that foodbanks are supporting people who are in work - as i have said - i specifically mentioned people in seasonal work in dartmouth using the foodbank - this is in the local hotel and tourism industry - often involving zero hour contracts.

[Montreal Wanderer]

You haven't a clue and i haven't is the answer.

Of course not. My question was to Monty, who, as ever, searched on Google for a literal answer rather than taking on board the overall concept of the thread. Anyway: Peace

C'mon, Bruce, I was just pulling your leg. You fired down a rhetorical question that probably could not be answered and I just poked some disingenuous fun at you by giving a literal answer. We should lighten up a little sometimes.

[William the White]

but none of this would amount to the kind of statistical evidence you are searching for

I'm not really searching for it.

Actually I expected what you said to be the case - that it's hard to generalise and is a very fractured picture. Incidentally, I have noticed that you, as somebody who is actually involved in these things, don't seem to generalise and point score a lot on this subject matter.

I just wondered whether, when people say things like the following, it is based on very much:

That said - a rising number of foodbanks are supporting people in work - in the precarious way so many are. Zero hours contracts. Part time jobs. Minimum wage.

Ho hum... It means what it says at every point...

Foodbanks are supporting people who are in work. and say they have seen numbers increase.

Work is precarious for so many. In all three ways identified.

This may be meaningless to you.

Less so, I suspect, for those needing to use foodbanks.

It doesn't mean any more than that. Or any less.

But because of Ian Duncan Smith we've no idea as to what's going on, according to thebish. Do you contribute food towards food banks, William?

No that's not what the bish says. We've lost a source of reasonably reliable stats, which is a pity.

But the Trussell Trust publishes reports, issues press statements, has an active website and others - Poverty Action, Church Action do the same. Oxfam has recently. So we have some evidence from providers and campaigners. And I think these are likely to illuminate the issues. I myself would prefer more hard and objective evidence - because I really do want to know what is going on more precisely.

I've never given food to foodbanks. I have contributed cash donations. via the Trussell Trust.

You can donate several different ways, Bruce, if you wish. Details here: http://www.trusselltrust.org/donate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoboh]

Supermarkets like Asda from time to time have a collection point for food items for the food banks. TBH I find it more of a piece of mind to donate food rather than cash, at least it cannot be fiddled or wasted like cash.
Call me cynical but I trust very few charities with cash these days, the hospice is the only place that goes.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Anyway, I suppose my point is that I'm pleased food banks exist given that there is an evident need for them, but I do think that their use as a politcal football is pretty limited.

On the 'wastage' point - does everything at the banks you're involved with actually get used before it goes off, Bish?

[Hoboh]

Anyway, I suppose my point is that I'm pleased food banks exist given that there is an evident need for them, but I do think that their use as a politcal football is pretty limited.

On the 'wastage' point - does everything at the banks you're involved with actually get used before it goes off, Bish?

Limited! Actually I think that in a day and age were we are told regular by the toffs in power everything is rosy, Britain is on the road to being Europe’s fastest growing economy, business leaders are crowing whilst screwing the last buck out of everyone and you think it's limited!!
I think its fu*king disgraceful they are needed actually.

[William the White]

Anyway, I suppose my point is that I'm pleased food banks exist given that there is an evident need for them, but I do think that their use as a politcal football is pretty limited.

On the 'wastage' point - does everything at the banks you're involved with actually get used before it goes off, Bish?

If you look at the very limited list of foods accepted by food banks on the Trussell trust website you'll see that they are pretty much limited to non-perishables to deal with this problem (only powdered or UHT milk for instance).

[Bruce Rioja]

I've never given food to foodbanks. I have contributed cash donations. via the Trussell Trust.

Thanks for the opportunity to donate, William. Only, I already give food to a local collection. There - that's surprised you!

[Lord Kangana]

I think its fu*king disgraceful they are needed actually.

Hoboh for PM.

[thebish]

Anyway, I suppose my point is that I'm pleased food banks exist given that there is an evident need for them, but I do think that their use as a politcal football is pretty limited.

On the 'wastage' point - does everything at the banks you're involved with actually get used before it goes off, Bish?

yes - because they don't collect perishables... the collections are for tins and dry packeted goods... if they need perishables then they will use cash donations to buy them at the last minute...

food banks also get involved in other stuff..

my Dartmouth foodbank (for instance) - through the hard work of one of my church members - did a deal with the local amateur dramaticals who put on the big christmas panto in dartmouth to put free tickets to watch the dress rehearsal in the food parcels.. we persuaded that drama group that these people would not otherwise afford a ticket - so it would not damage their sales - and the drama group get a much better idea at their dress rehearsal what works and what doesn't... both sides win... my church then funded goodie bags for all those who went and hosted a tea party afterwards..

the one on newton abbot now does cookery "classes" to help people make the best of the stuff in their parcel..

many foodbanks now act as hubs for a whole range of services...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Anyway, another subject...

What did happen to the social mobility that previous generations and notably, for me, my parents enjoyed? Whatever your views on the current administration, they are a symptom and not the cause.

An eloquent case for grammar schools by Essex boy Russell Kane here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25873840" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And a few good recent articles here:

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014 ... lic-school" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... e-politics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/c ... 981077.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[William the White]

Anyway, I suppose my point is that I'm pleased food banks exist given that there is an evident need for them, but I do think that their use as a politcal football is pretty limited.

On the 'wastage' point - does everything at the banks you're involved with actually get used before it goes off, Bish?

yes - because they don't collect perishables... the collections are for tins and dry packeted goods... if they need perishables then they will use cash donations to buy them at the last minute...

food banks also get involved in other stuff..

my Dartmouth foodbank (for instance) - through the hard work of one of my church members - did a deal with the local amateur dramaticals who put on the big christmas panto in dartmouth to put free tickets to watch the dress rehearsal in the food parcels.. we persuaded that drama group that these people would not otherwise afford a ticket - so it would not damage their sales - and the drama group get a much better idea at their dress rehearsal what works and what doesn't... both sides win... my church then funded goodie bags for all those who went and hosted a tea party afterwards..

the one on newton abbot now does cookery "classes" to help people make the best of the stuff in their parcel..

many foodbanks now act as hubs for a whole range of services...

Nice one, thebish... During the miners strike of 84/85 my dramatisation of Mark Twain's The Prince and the Pauper was produced as a Christmas show by a touring company in the Black Country called Theatre Foundry. The dress rehearsals were opened to the families of striking miners in Staffs (I think) - and the actors and friends of the company raised funds for bussing them in and goodie bags for the kids... Nice feeling...

[William the White]

I've never given food to foodbanks. I have contributed cash donations. via the Trussell Trust.

Thanks for the opportunity to donate, William. Only, I already give food to a local collection. There - that's surprised you!

Didn't surprise me, Bruce. Bet you didn't include the Douro though...

[Hoboh]

I think its fu*king disgraceful they are needed actually.

Hoboh for PM.

The great God of greed is screwing the whole world.
I have no problem with people or companies gaining wealth, it is just the great haste in which they try to do it in, then they make a rod for their own backs and have to contrive ways to extract ever-greater profits year on year, which screws everyone.
Lower wages, cheap labour, jobs moving all over the shop to gain incentives (bribes), tax avoidance, social upheaval, dodgy investments, you name it, they've tried it.
If I could get a good steady return over the mid to long term I would be as happy as the proverbial pig but greed demands it must climb the stairway rapidly.
It's all crap and one day will come tumbling down but not without great consequence, those with the snouts in the trough will stop at nothing to ensure their way will prevail.
There is more than enough money swilling about for the rich to be rich, the middle to be quite happy thank you and the 'poor' to be comfortable, all should be able to contribute to this pot!
Like with most things we forget the lessons of history.

[Relentless09]

If you mean me, my views have always been on the left, but certainly not entrenched. They have gone from a vapid social democracy, to anarchism, to a particularly vile version of dogmatic Trotskyism, to the Labour Party, and standing for council election (and failing to win, thank FFT!) to the guy with the fairly non-entrenched position of wanting PR and a party uniting socialist and green ideas able to form a coherent opposition to the current dominant ideology espoused by all major parties. I have in addition squeezed in CND and other anti-war campaigns, significant trade union activity, fatherhood and a lot of reading.

Entrenched? Less so than Douglas Haig, I suggest. Or i suppose, I put it you...

And, seemingly, squeezed into the top ten percent of salary earners in the country. Which came as a surprise to me but didn't make me want to vote Tory.

One of my tutors at Uni is involved in anarchism and I actually spend few classes on the topic. I can understand the appeal of anarchism but I feel that it's to utopian and couldn't be viable throughout all of society, each to their own I suppose though.

[William the White]

If you mean me, my views have always been on the left, but certainly not entrenched. They have gone from a vapid social democracy, to anarchism, to a particularly vile version of dogmatic Trotskyism, to the Labour Party, and standing for council election (and failing to win, thank FFT!) to the guy with the fairly non-entrenched position of wanting PR and a party uniting socialist and green ideas able to form a coherent opposition to the current dominant ideology espoused by all major parties. I have in addition squeezed in CND and other anti-war campaigns, significant trade union activity, fatherhood and a lot of reading.

Entrenched? Less so than Douglas Haig, I suggest. Or i suppose, I put it you...

And, seemingly, squeezed into the top ten percent of salary earners in the country. Which came as a surprise to me but didn't make me want to vote Tory.

One of my tutors at Uni is involved in anarchism and I actually spend few classes on the topic. I can understand the appeal of anarchism but I feel that it's to utopian and couldn't be viable throughout all of society, each to their own I suppose though.[/quote]

Oh, I agree. I was utopian throughout the anarchist years of my life - approx 17-24... Youthful idealism when I was hoping to help build a world with no God and no masters and no private property, slowly and sadly decays into failing to win a council seat in Wednesbury for the Labour Party... which uni are you at, relentless?

[Relentless09]

If you mean me, my views have always been on the left, but certainly not entrenched. They have gone from a vapid social democracy, to anarchism, to a particularly vile version of dogmatic Trotskyism, to the Labour Party, and standing for council election (and failing to win, thank FFT!) to the guy with the fairly non-entrenched position of wanting PR and a party uniting socialist and green ideas able to form a coherent opposition to the current dominant ideology espoused by all major parties. I have in addition squeezed in CND and other anti-war campaigns, significant trade union activity, fatherhood and a lot of reading.

Entrenched? Less so than Douglas Haig, I suggest. Or i suppose, I put it you...

And, seemingly, squeezed into the top ten percent of salary earners in the country. Which came as a surprise to me but didn't make me want to vote Tory.

One of my tutors at Uni is involved in anarchism and I actually spend few classes on the topic. I can understand the appeal of anarchism but I feel that it's to utopian and couldn't be viable throughout all of society, each to their own I suppose though.

Oh, I agree. I was utopian throughout the anarchist years of my life - approx 17-24... Youthful idealism when I was hoping to help build a world with no God and no masters and no private property, slowly and sadly decays into failing to win a council seat in Wednesbury for the Labour Party... which uni are you at, relentless?

Well I really messed the quoting up on that one. (Slightly better now)

I'm at Queens University studying International Politics and Conflict studies. The combination of the modules sold it for me, there's modules focusing on political theory, European politics (EU related) and the global politics system focusing on the role conflict plays. This semester I've modules on UK/Ireland political system, one called media, politics and conflict and the last module is on Northern Ireland which is always enlightening.