You take the high road...

[thebish]

what do you think the Welsh - if they were asked - would want in terms of further responsibility?

[mrplow]

what do you think the Welsh - if they were asked - would want in terms of further responsibility?

The Assembly have laid out their views pretty clearly. If that's what you mean by the Welsh.

Amongst the public I think there is general support for more powers, there have been opinion polls that have shown this.

I imagine we will hear a lot more on the subject soon enough

[thebish]

what do you think the Welsh - if they were asked - would want in terms of further responsibility?

The Assembly have laid out their views pretty clearly. If that's what you mean by the Welsh.

Amongst the public I think there is general support for more powers, there have been opinion polls that have shown this.

I imagine we will hear a lot more on the subject soon enough

aye - too true we will! foolishly, this is not something I anticipated when thinking about the day the scottish referendum was done and dusted!!

[bobo the clown]

what do you think the Welsh - if they were asked - would want in terms of further responsibility?

The Assembly have laid out their views pretty clearly. If that's what you mean by the Welsh.

Amongst the public I think there is general support for more powers, there have been opinion polls that have shown this.

I imagine we will hear a lot more on the subject soon enough

I have to disagree Plow. There is, when asked, a general desire to "have more" but there's no consensus on more what.

There is the dominance of the language arguments, a demand to have more money for health, education, roads, rail .... just as every other group, however defined, would want. A general feeling that Cardiff doesn't do this or that for the North, that Westminster doesn't do this or that for the Nation. But no real coherent wants.

They already have devolved education, and it's appalling. They have devolved health and that's a mess. Local Government ... it took a survey to conclude that 22 local authorities was too many for a country of 3.5m (no shit, Sherlock) and that there should be some amalgamations. Since last November they've all sat on their hands and done nothing but it. They are waiting to be made to combine so they can say "not our fault" when they do.

The language issues are in everything and we are finally seeing what was inevitable ; the selection of people into jobs because they speak Welsh not because they can do the job better. Even where language is not a requirement. Now the Commissioner is trying to force private businesses into this as well as public.

Failed education authorities, failed health authorities, failed local Government authorities. Local officials falling out to the pint where suspensions of Heads of Health Boards, Councils taken over by the Government Auditors, nearly 1/3 of Education Authorities regarded as under achieving and under special measures.

The Silk report explains what extra measures could be allocated, but the above results barely suggest they are capable of managing what they have let alone get more. The politicians want tax collecting powers and to move to having locally determined tax policies. I utterly dread to thing what that would bring.

If you ask people "do you want more" the reply is inevitably 'yes'. If you ask if what is currently done is done well, the reply (other than from politicians, is overwhelmingly 'no'.

[mrplow]

what do you think the Welsh - if they were asked - would want in terms of further responsibility?

The Assembly have laid out their views pretty clearly. If that's what you mean by the Welsh.

Amongst the public I think there is general support for more powers, there have been opinion polls that have shown this.

I imagine we will hear a lot more on the subject soon enough

I have to disagree Plow. There is, when asked, a general desire to "have more" but there's no consensus on more what.

There is the dominance of the language arguments, a demand to have more money for health, education, roads, rail .... just as every other group, however defined, would want. A general feeling that Cardiff doesn't do this or that for the North, that Westminster doesn't do this or that for the Nation. But no real coherent wants.

They already have devolved education, and it's appalling. They have devolved health and that's a mess. Local Government ... it took a survey to conclude that 22 local authorities was too many for a country of 3.5m (no shit, Sherlock) and that there should be some amalgamations. Since last November they've all sat on their hands and done nothing but it. They are waiting to be made to combine so they can say "not our fault" when they do.

The language issues are in everything and we are finally seeing what was inevitable ; the selection of people into jobs because they speak Welsh not because they can do the job better. Even where language is not a requirement. Now the Commissioner is trying to force private businesses into this as well as public.

Failed education authorities, failed health authorities, failed local Government authorities. Local officials falling out to the pint where suspensions of Heads of Health Boards, Councils taken over by the Government Auditors, nearly 1/3 of Education Authorities regarded as under achieving and under special measures.

The Silk report explains what extra measures could be allocated, but the above results barely suggest they are capable of managing what they have let alone get more. The politicians want tax collecting powers and to move to having locally determined tax policies. I utterly dread to thing what that would bring.

If you ask people "do you want more" the reply is inevitably 'yes'. If you ask if what is currently done is done well, the reply (other than from politicians, is overwhelmingly 'no'.

The last opinion poll I saw had a figure of 80% who trusted the NafW to act in the best interests of the country.

[bobo the clown]

Well the last I saw showed 30% (I'll need to check for detail) would abolish the Assembly if given the opportunity. Not too long ago either.

[mrplow]

Well the last I saw showed 30% (I'll need to check for detail) would abolish the Assembly if given the opportunity. Not too long ago either.

Not really 'overwhelmingly' then ?

[Worthy4England]

Can we not just sell the place?

[bobo the clown]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26378274" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well the last I saw showed 30% (I'll need to check for detail) would abolish the Assembly if given the opportunity. Not too long ago either.

Not really 'overwhelmingly' then ?

Correct ... In fact a mete 23% have abolishing it as their dearest wish. Quite significant I'd say ... given how many peopleIin Wales are public sector employees and the 10% of weirdos who are first language Welsh.

See the report above.


.... & Worthy, really, who'd buy it ?

[mrplow]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26378274

Well the last I saw showed 30% (I'll need to check for detail) would abolish the Assembly if given the opportunity. Not too long ago either.

Not really 'overwhelmingly' then ?

Correct ... In fact a mete 23% have abolishing it as their dearest wish. Quite significant I'd say ... given how many peopleIin Wales are public sector employees and the 10% of weirdos who are first language Welsh.

See the report above.


.... & Worthy, really, who'd buy it ?

Considering how many English live in Wales 23 % is surprisingly low.

[Prufrock]

these "English matters" that cameron wants English politicians to vote for... what do people think they actually are in practice?

and - would that mean that London MPs couldn't vote on matters do do with transport in the rest of the UK given that most London Transport issues are devolved to London and are not voted on by (say) Sheffield MPs?

I think they're mainly the things that have been devolved to Scotland and Wales and so only effect England. Stuff like the NHS and education. It kind of works for me because the Scots particularly are more likely to vote for things I agree with, but partizanship aside I do see the argument.

[bobo the clown]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26378274

Well the last I saw showed 30% (I'll need to check for detail) would abolish the Assembly if given the opportunity. Not too long ago either.

Not really 'overwhelmingly' then ?

Correct ... In fact a mete 23% have abolishing it as their dearest wish. Quite significant I'd say ... given how many peopleIin Wales are public sector employees and the 10% of weirdos who are first language Welsh.

See the report above.


.... & Worthy, really, who'd buy it ?

Considering how many English live in Wales 23 % is surprisingly low.

I'd enjoy seeing the border areas being offered the chance to move the border in a way.

[Worthy4England]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26378274

Well the last I saw showed 30% (I'll need to check for detail) would abolish the Assembly if given the opportunity. Not too long ago either.

Not really 'overwhelmingly' then ?

Correct ... In fact a mete 23% have abolishing it as their dearest wish. Quite significant I'd say ... given how many peopleIin Wales are public sector employees and the 10% of weirdos who are first language Welsh.

See the report above.


.... & Worthy, really, who'd buy it ?

Fair point, well made....

[thebish]

these "English matters" that cameron wants English politicians to vote for... what do people think they actually are in practice?

and - would that mean that London MPs couldn't vote on matters do do with transport in the rest of the UK given that most London Transport issues are devolved to London and are not voted on by (say) Sheffield MPs?

I think they're mainly the things that have been devolved to Scotland and Wales and so only effect England. Stuff like the NHS and education. It kind of works for me because the Scots particularly are more likely to vote for things I agree with, but partizanship aside I do see the argument.

I see the argument.. BUT - if the idea of having what the Scots/Welsh have is what is being discussed - then we are talking about an entirely separate English Parliament - NOT the idea of different sub-groups of UK MPs being able to vote on different types of issue... I can't see people wanting to add another tier of government in England.

[Prufrock]

I'm not sure it has to be any more complicated than designating certain bills 'English Bills' and only letting English MPs in the HoC vote on it. Not sure what would happen re: the Lords but I'm sure that's not an insurmountable problem.

When the Welsh and Scots did it they understandably wanted there to be brand new assemblies in the country, with separate politicians. I'm not sure there's any need or appetite for that in England.

[Hoboh]

I'm not sure it has to be any more complicated than designating certain bills 'English Bills' and only letting English MPs in the HoC vote on it. Not sure what would happen re: the Lords but I'm sure that's not an insurmountable problem.

When the Welsh and Scots did it they understandably wanted there to be brand new assemblies in the country, with separate politicians. I'm not sure there's any need or appetite for that in England.

I agree, don't need any of them!

[bobo the clown]

... & the Salmon has decided that anything he wishes to he'll see as an attempt at foot-dragging and then will create and rabble rouse. THEN he adds that as they get more & more power one day they may simply declare independence anyway.

How soon before I can shoot him and get away with it ?

[Prufrock]

Wait for independence then claim some kind of diplomatic immunity?

[William the White]

I'm not sure it has to be any more complicated than designating certain bills 'English Bills' and only letting English MPs in the HoC vote on it. Not sure what would happen re: the Lords but I'm sure that's not an insurmountable problem.

When the Welsh and Scots did it they understandably wanted there to be brand new assemblies in the country, with separate politicians. I'm not sure there's any need or appetite for that in England.

We won't know what are 'English bills' until the agreement with the Scots are made law AND the not-even-started talks with the Welsh and N Irish are agreed.

And it's likely there are very few bills that can actually be designated simply 'English' as long as the (pledged) Barnet formula continues to be used for block grants to devolved Parliaments/Assemblies is in place because expenditure decisions taken by the UK government have financial implications for the Scottish and Welsh devolved bodies, I don't know about northern Ireland, and are therefore entirely their business.

And an English only parliament (supported by a significant number of the Tory Right led by Redmond) cannot, I believe, in current circumstances, be implemented without an English referendum. Which would require a serious campaign of some significant duration.

This is an attempted Tory ambush that I feel might crumble soon.

[Lord Kangana]

I believe Sigmund Freud understood this better than most (he was writing about the internal Collapse of Austria-Hungary) when he wrote...

"it is precisely communities with adjoining territories, and related to each other in other ways as well, who are engaged in constant feuds and in ridiculing each other...".

With each passing year it becomes increasingly evident that this country spectacularly failed in its political imagination not to push through the idea of regionalism when it had the chance (Hesseltine stole the idea from the French, his increasingly vocal calls largely fell on deaf ears), and instead pursued the ludicrously London-Centric policies that now pervade every strata of Government. Unless that idiotic policy direction can somehow be diverted, which I doubt, then this slow process of breakdown will continue.

That the Tory's are most vocal about an English Parliament just goes to show how stupid and hypocritical they can be when they put their minds to it. I'm sure they'll be happy to see a Parliament purely for The People's Republic of Surrey, where voting rights are only ceded to those who pay a six figure sum in income tax.