creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[TANGODANCER]

But we didn't actually win anything in this test. Granted, we didn't lose it but it was more because the weather intervened than anything else. Now they have no chance to compete for the Ashes, just the tests. Takes the edge off it all for me.

fine lines... had it remained cloudy and a bit damp - which causes the ball to swing more and they had skittled us (having got to bat for 2 days in glorious sunshine themselves) would you have said the weather won it for them?

Weather's always a part of the equation and also a bit "luck of the draw". It can help win or lose a game, no secret and I'm aware how it affects the bowling. And your own stance on winning this way is..?

[thebish]

But we didn't actually win anything in this test. Granted, we didn't lose it but it was more because the weather intervened than anything else. Now they have no chance to compete for the Ashes, just the tests. Takes the edge off it all for me.

fine lines... had it remained cloudy and a bit damp - which causes the ball to swing more and they had skittled us (having got to bat for 2 days in glorious sunshine themselves) would you have said the weather won it for them?

Weather's always a part of the equation and also a bit "luck of the draw". It can help win or lose a game, no secret and I'm aware how it affects the bowling. And your own stance on winning this way is..?

I am happy to have retained the ashes and perfectly and indeed utterly relaxed and unstressed about the rain intervening on the last day! Just as I am utterly relaxed and unstressed about the many and various other ways that the weather intervenes to alter the conditions for batting or bowling in a test match - just part of the game - if it's played over 5 days and outside - then the weather is always going to part of the nature of the beast.

[TANGODANCER]

I'll feel a lot happier about it all if we win one of the last two tests . If that happens it puts it beyond any doubt. If the Oz should win the next two they'll surely claim they were beaten, not by England, but by the weather. I like Michael Clarke and think Oz have the basis for rebuilding into a good side with the likes of Siddle, Harris and Ager etc.

Get out and win lads, remove the doubt. .

[thebish]

I'll feel a lot happier about it all if we win one of the last two tests . If that happens it puts it beyond any doubt. If the Oz should win the next two they'll surely claim they were beaten, not by England, but by the weather. I like Michael Clarke and think Oz have the basis for rebuilding into a good side with the likes of Siddle, Harris and Ager etc.

Get out and win lads, remove the doubt. .

oh aye - more than happy with that... if the Oz level the series then they WILL claim some kind of "moral" victory... they have a dilemma, though - whining about the weather DOES make them sound, well - a bit like Whinging Poms!!

[BWFC_Insane]

We've retained the ashes. I don't think there is any doubt about that.

Now we've got to win the series if we can.

There is always going to be "what ifs" in sport.

2005 ashes, Englands glorious summer, was only won by a wicket at Edgbaston (the test England won by 2 runs) that shouldn't have been given out, subsequent replays have suggested. Was the doubt there enough to spoil it?

[thebish]

'tis all a matter of degree - you must be able to see the point of what Bruce and Tango are saying - I can (even though I am not so bothered!)

if every test of the series had seen 4 days of solid rain - meaning that all the tests were drawn and so we retained the ashes - it wouldn't have felt so good!

[Bruce Rioja]

'tis all a matter of degree - you must be able to see the point of what Bruce and Tango are saying - I can (even though I am not so bothered!)

if every test of the series had seen 4 days of solid rain - meaning that all the tests were drawn and so we retained the ashes - it wouldn't have felt so good!

Indeed. Would BWFC-I and his ilk be sounding off if Australia win the next two tests? Because for me, if that transpire's then it'll be no victory at all.

[BWFC_Insane]

'tis all a matter of degree - you must be able to see the point of what Bruce and Tango are saying - I can (even though I am not so bothered!)

if every test of the series had seen 4 days of solid rain - meaning that all the tests were drawn and so we retained the ashes - it wouldn't have felt so good!

Indeed. Would BWFC-I and his ilk be sounding off if Australia win the next two tests? Because for me, if that transpire's then it'll be no victory at all.

But we've retained the ashes. Nobody is claiming a series victory.

But by the rules of the competition to which both sides adhere, we have retained the ashes.

If your point is they were retained under less inspiring circumstances than in 2005 for example, then absolutely 100%.

If your point is we should feel sorry for the Australians or anything along those lines then absolutely no fecking way. That tit Adrian Durham was suggesting we "give the Aussies the last test match as a win for the sake of fairness". That line of muddled thinking I will never ever be ok with.

[thebish]

nobody is saying we haven't retained the ashes.

it's a simple point - is it more satisfying to claim the retention with a full completed game where we have fended off everything the Oz can throw at us over 5 days - or with the helpful intervention of rain on the last day?

all I am saying is that I can put myself in bruce's and Tango's shoes and recognise there is a difference there (even though it doesn't bother me that much). You plainly can't - which is fine.

I don't see how any sane person could possibly read feeling sorry for the Oz into any of my posts on this matter...

[TANGODANCER]

If your point is we should feel sorry for the Australians or anything along those lines then absolutely no fecking way. That tit Adrian Durham was suggesting we "give the Aussies the last test match as a win for the sake of fairness". That line of muddled thinking I will never ever be ok with.

I'm pretty sure the Aussies don't want feeling sorry for and I'm sure don't want anything giving them. Michael Clark has been totally honest and generous in his comments, conceeding they were outplayed in the first two tests. He's never whined about anything. He'd have had a good case for claiming they could well have won the third, he didn't. Far more satisfying for me to win a close, competitive game than any whitewash or walk-over ever. Plaudits to the Oz for their fighting attitude so far.

[BWFC_Insane]

If your point is we should feel sorry for the Australians or anything along those lines then absolutely no fecking way. That tit Adrian Durham was suggesting we "give the Aussies the last test match as a win for the sake of fairness". That line of muddled thinking I will never ever be ok with.

I'm pretty sure the Aussies don't want feeling sorry for and I'm sure don't want anything giving them. Michael Clark has been totally honest and generous in his comments, conceeding they were outplayed in the first two tests. He's never whined about anything. He'd have had a good case for claiming they could well have won the third, he didn't. Far more satisfying for me to win a close, competitive game than any whitewash or walk-over ever. Plaudits to the Oz for their fighting attitude so far.

Yeah I think the Aussies have fought hard so far. They just don't have top line bowlers nor a consistently top line batting order.

England have two genuine top line bowlers in Anderson and Swann that are the difference between the two sides in English conditions at least.

Will be interesting in Australia given the Old Trafford pitch was hard as a rock and similar to those Australian pitches. Their batsmen performed and it suited their bowlers more than ours. I fancy we could really struggle out there as our weakness is still the batting with a few question marks hanging over players.

[Prufrock]

Yeah, well, Michael Clarke can feck off. An Australian captain has no business being in any way likeable. That's the problem with this Australian team, they're no 'orrible enough. Siddle is the only one who looks like a proper aussie, and apparently he's a veggie!

Watson and Warner are the only proper knobs in that team.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah, well, Michael Clarke can feck off. An Australian captain has no right to be in any way likeable. That's the problem with this Australian team, they're no 'orrible enough. Siddle is the only one who looks like a proper aussie, and apparently he's a veggie!

Watson and Warner are the only proper knobs in that team.

And you have to feel sorry for Watson as he chugs in for his third consecutive over. #knackered #chubster

[Dujon]

I wouldn't be too worried if I were you. So far this series and prior to it the Australian batting has been, putting it mildly, inconsistent. Smith has been a surprise to me as he has stepped up to Ashes level cricket as though he belongs there. Clarke seems to have found a bit of form which, as he's captain, could help shore up the top order resolve - maybe. Australia needs a settled opening pair, a duo that can see off the new ball and put together a 100 opening partnership on a regular basis. Clarke needs to come in at second drop. A genuine fast bowler needs to be produced along with a top-notch spinner, preferably a leggy. Haddin is good behind the stumps but a decent successor must be groomed; I'm not sure that Wade is the man. One thing that I am pleased to see is that the squad as it stands at the moment can bat all the way down. Of course that's a conundrum for the selectors; do they choose a good bowler who can bat or better bowler who cannot?

I could continue to pontificate but I won't.

[Bruce Rioja]

I say, that really isn't cricket

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricke ... ports.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thebish]

I say, that really isn't cricket

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricke ... ports.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you have to admit that his defense makes good sense..

How stupid would I be to try & hide a nick when it could save me on an LBW appeal, like in 1st innings where hotspot showed I nicked it..

[Lost Leopard Spot]

News Flash: Monty Panessar pees on bouncers outside Shoosh nightclub

[BWFC_Insane]

Aussies are just bitter and sore losers.

[ChrisC]

All this moaning about the rain doing us a favour, did the rain put us 2-0 up?

Australia have lost/possibly drawn this series because we have been the better side overall and won the first 2 test with one a complete walkover.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

All this moaning about the rain doing us a favour, did the rain put us 2-0 up?

Australia have lost/possibly drawn this series because we have been the better side overall and won the first 2 test with one a complete walkover.

Nah. We shafted them, firstly with dodgy decisions and corrupt umpires, and secondly with cloud seeding techniques. Obvious to any independent Zimbabwean election monitor.