The Politics Thread

[Hoboh]

Well, with UKIP, some of the more right leaning Tories, today many large Unions, the popular press and now ... we think, as he's already started obfuscating (didn't take long did it ?) Corbyn .... make the "Outs" in a strong position.

Add to that Cameron will get f'call from his negotiations. Plus the reaction of the great British public to this migrant AND refugee situation and the German and Junker bullying from it .... I do think a "no/leave" vote is being likely rather than unlikely.

Europe would do itself a favour to take Cameron's attempts seriously and to undo now some of the more rigid and ambitious elements they old to seeing that once one country leaves others will follow. But they won't as the Euro cats have no sense of other whatsoever.

This won't happen but my long time & consistent view is that it should revert to what it was .... the EEC.

The Swiss have it right.. They get the EEA's Trade preferences, without having to handover stupid cheques and any decisions they make on Immigration, or external trade partnerships, they can make on their own!

You can still be in the EFTA without being a fully paying member of the club

Are you sure Sir?

They have a free movement agreement with the EU15. They're in Schengen.
For what that's worth now
They have to follow EU law insofar as it applies to the couple of hundred trade agreements with the EU.
Follow the German lead on EU law and treaties, you cannot go wrong
They still make EU contributions
A lot less than we do!
And for all that take it up the ass, they don't get a vote in Europe.
Little matter once Merkel bullies enough to go with the Germans
I think we would lose fairly heftily on Services trade agreements (or end up in the same place, but without any say in how the legislation progressed) especially in Financial Services sector - when you're suggesting we wouldn't lose anything through trade agreements were you including the Service sector which is somewhere near 80% of our economy?
You mean the service sector even top Europhile John Major complains is being restrained in Europe

[Worthy4England]

On the last point, it would be a whole lot more restrained if we weren't in Europe, as top Europhile John Major would be happy to explain to you. The Swiss are currently working out what to do about MiFID II and third country access...

[thebish]

On the last point, it would be a whole lot more restrained if we weren't in Europe, as top Europhile John Major would be happy to explain to you. The Swiss are currently working out what to do about MiFID II and third country access...

I often lie awake worrying about that...

[Bruce Rioja]

This is one of those that could've gone into any of several threads, but I'll post it in here (though I expect to be met with 'Neeeergh, you fecking voted for them etc.) A lifelong pal of mine's husband is recovering after a cancer operation, she's just posted this on FB;

(Husband)'s surgeon, his cancer nurse and doctor have said he is still not able to work yet and have given him 3 months off!! HOWEVER ..... The department of work and pensions have decided that it's not the case and so, the £70 odd/wk, which is the ONLY money he has ever claimed in his LIFE is to be stopped!!! This is a man that has worked from the age of 16, payed 40% tax for most of his professional life and has paid his stamp for over 30 years

[thebish]

This is one of those that could've gone into any of several threads, but I'll post it in here (though I expect to be met with 'Neeeergh, you fecking voted for them etc.) A lifelong pal of mine's husband is recovering after a cancer operation, she's just posted this on FB;

(Husband)'s surgeon, his cancer nurse and doctor have said he is still not able to work yet and have given him 3 months off!! HOWEVER ..... The department of work and pensions have decided that it's not the case and so, the £70 odd/wk, which is the ONLY money he has ever claimed in his LIFE is to be stopped!!! This is a man that has worked from the age of 16, payed 40% tax for most of his professional life and has paid his stamp for over 30 years

aye.. as several of us have said - the fit-for-work tests are a fecking scandal...

I think a lot of these stories mean very little to us until we see it happening to someone we know...

I hope he is appealing? many of them get overturned on appeal... of course - that doesn't really help in the short term..

[Prufrock]

This national anthem thing Jesus wept.

What the f*ck is wrong with people?!

[boltonboris]

I think we would lose fairly heftily on Services trade agreements (or end up in the same place, but without any say in how the legislation progressed) especially in Financial Services sector - when you're suggesting we wouldn't lose anything through trade agreements were you including the Service sector which is somewhere near 80% of our economy?

Do you think they wouldn't trade with us, the same way they do now?

We're one of Germany's biggest Economic parntners when it comes to buying and selling, same with France, same with Benelux... They wouldn't change anything, they wouldn't apply taxes upon import for instance..

Also, outside of the EU, we have no say in how we trade with countries like USA, China, India other than directed by Bureaucrats - We have an opportunity with the Asian market to really increase our market share in better quality, cheaper goods for us to use daily... Europe strangle that trade and try to monopolise the import market to protect their members (fair enough), but it doesn't really benefit the UK the same way as the others, due to the type of commodities we export.

One small example and it's just a drop in the ocean, is confectionaries - choclate in particular.. We all joke about the price or Freddo's etc and how Cream Eggs get smaller every Easter yet you pay 20% more each year for them.. It's because of Quotas. these quotas mean the type of goods which can be manufactured readily in Europe ensure that you have to pay through the feckin nose for them.. Turkey is the worlds biggest manufacturer of confectionary products apparently, yet the quotas mean you pay more, which means less is bought, less is imported and so the costs are artifically inflated to protect the likes of Belgium, Austria and Germany

feck em.. About time we look after number 1

[Prufrock]

Of course there'd be tariffs. The whole thing would fall apart otherwise.

[Worthy4England]

Short answer to Boris. Generally they would continue to trade with us, but like Switzerland, the price of that would be they we still complied with their trading regulations. So all the pain and no vote on how that legislation pans out in the future...

You've skipped over the financial services bit...that's more key to our economy than chocolate.

[Worthy4England]

Oh and Switzerland's key bilateral agreements aren't with member states, they're with the EU so there isn't a "get around" clause.

The point about having no influence isn't right either. The European Commissioner for Trade has been from the UK about 20 of the 60 years it's existed...

[boltonboris]

Of course there'd be tariffs. The whole thing would fall apart otherwise.

Of course.. But I never mentioned tariffs - I mentioned tariff quotas

And Worthy, I was just using that as an example of a commodity Europe is keen on protecting for the good of member states that don't include us

[Lost Leopard Spot]

This national anthem thing Jesus wept.

What the f*ck is wrong with people?!

And he had his top button undone... un-be-fxckin-lievable

[thebish]

and his jacket and trousers were "mismatched" - and his shoes don't live up to Pru's expectations...

[bobo the clown]

This national anthem thing Jesus wept.

What the f*ck is wrong with people?!

I doubt it's too much of a spoiler for me to say I'm no fan of the man, his politics or his followers but .... yes., quite.

He's entered a new World now. One where HE is going to be the story as often as his views, which is a shame because they need ripping to shreds more than he does.


In an ultimate set of examples of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" he will be mercilessly hounded for signs of hypocrisy or inconsistence ... or consistence.

If he'd sung the anthem he'd have been ripped to sh!t for it, as a loud and life-long anti-monarchist. If he didn't he's showing disrespect to the fallen. Even I felt sorry for him .... not for long, but I did.

But he's the one who's spent 50 years taking stances. It didn't matter for most of that time, now it does. He can't be surprised. The only question is how long it dominates the meeja.
He wore a tie, he had a smart new jacket, he turned up on stage a bit late, he hadn't got spin doctors around him, he had heavies nearby, his speech wasn't polished .... and that was just yesterday.

[Prufrock]

This national anthem thing Jesus wept.

What the f*ck is wrong with people?!

I doubt it's too much of a spoiler for me to say I'm no fan of the man, his politics or his followers but .... yes., quite.

He's entered a new World now. One where HE is going to be the story as often as his views, which is a shame because they need ripping to shreds more than he does.


In an ultimate set of examples of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" he will be mercilessly hounded for signs of hypocrisy or inconsistence ... or consistence.

If he'd sung the anthem he'd have been ripped to sh!t for it, as a loud and life-long anti-monarchist. If he didn't he's showing disrespect to the fallen. Even I felt sorry for him .... not for long, but I did.

But he's the one who's spent 50 years taking stances. It didn't matter for most of that time, now it does. He can't be surprised. The only question is how long it dominates the meeja.
He wore a tie, he had a smart new jacket, he turned up on stage a bit late, he hadn't got spin doctors around him, he had heavies nearby, his speech wasn't polished .... and that was just yesterday.

Yep, if he had sung it he'd be giving up on his principles. There's plenty proper stuff to to talk about now, no-one can deny that, who gives a shit if he sang the song.

[bobo the clown]

^^ ah, but ... apparently from now on he's going to sing it "Labour sources confirm".

Fckg turncoat.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

^^ ah, but ... apparently from now on he's going to sing it "Labour sources confirm".

Fckg turncoat.

He'll be asking his own questions at PMQs next...

[thebish]

he's only got another 399,994 to get through first!

[Prufrock]

^^ ah, but ... apparently from now on he's going to sing it "Labour sources confirm".

Fckg turncoat.

Yeah I saw that. Seems the worst of both worlds. They'll now be able to call him a flip-flopper who gives up on his principles. Some people seem genuinely to give a shit about this too. Already seen the Facebook posts doing the rounds bidding people to share flyers about how Corbyn "hates Britain". Bloody Ralph Miliband!

He needs a media team. Doesn't have anyone at all apparently, just two poor bastards from HQ.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

he's only got another 399,994 to get through first!