The Politics Thread

[Bruce Rioja]

so "It means that in some of these seats where people don't speak English but they are signed up for postal votes effectively the electoral process is now dead"

See, what I read into that is Farridge suggesting people who don't speak English are being coerced into voting for whoever by those that do.

Don't postal voting papers come in a variety of languages anyway?

[Hoboh]

Meanwhile, the Corbyn Trotsky trolls prepared their Facebook/twitter campaign to deselect a potentially good centrist MP if he is found not to be able to quote Marx or Mao.

what on earth are you talking about?

You'll see.

[Athers]

Presumably you refer to the 'pressure' which Stella Creasy, Liz Kendall and others have faced in recent days. It's like Amercia's Tea Party movement in reverse spectrum.

The best is the woman from TUSC Party who stood against Stella Creasy in May who is now on TV campaigning for her de-selection. How about you just stand again for your own party in 5 years and see how you get on?

[bobo the clown]

Presumably you refer to the 'pressure' which Stella Creasy, Liz Kendall and others have faced in recent days. It's like Amercia's Tea Party movement in reverse spectrum.

The best is the woman from TUSC Party who stood against Stella Creasy in May who is now on TV campaigning for her de-selection. How about you just stand again for your own party in 5 years and see how you get on?

The Labour Party IS now 'her party'. Everyone has to get used to the fact that the 'new members' are largely activists and ne'er-do-wells from the ramshackle of parties well to the left of what Labour has been for decades.

They, like Garlic Bread, are the future.

[thebish]

Presumably you refer to the 'pressure' which Stella Creasy, Liz Kendall and others have faced in recent days. It's like Amercia's Tea Party movement in reverse spectrum.

hmmm... maybe he does - but, c'mon, pressure to vote one way or another in a political party is how political parties work! that's why parties employ Party Whips!! there was a ton of "pressure" from pro-bombing MPs and with threats of mass-resignation and dissent...

I think some MPs are confusing people legitimately lobbying them - which is basically what MPs are there for - with "pressure"...

if MPs can't handle voters emailing them about an upcoming vote (and lets face it - it is actually their staff who handle the emails and texts - the family members that they claim expenses to pay!!) - then they probably are in the wrong job...

[Prufrock]

Death-threats and the horrible stuff on Creasy's Facebook and Twitter is beyond "pressure" though.

[thebish]

Death-threats and the horrible stuff on Creasy's Facebook and Twitter is beyond "pressure" though.

anyone doing that should be prosecuted under the laws we have. unfortunately twitter and fb attract those kind of tw@ts - and it is often directed at women - that historian earlier this year f'rinstance... I'd imagine anti-bombing personalities also got similar. (John McDonnell for one).. death/rape threats to women over fb/twitter are not the exclusive preserve of lefties. such people are tw&ts whatever their politics and deserve to be locked up.

[Prufrock]

I don't disagree, just pointing out that in this instance what (we think) Hoboh was talking about goes beyond the pressure to vote a particular way that is how political parties work.

[thebish]

I don't disagree, just pointing out that in this instance what (we think) Hoboh was talking about goes beyond the pressure to vote a particular way that is how political parties work.

except he linked it exclusively with the left and specifically to Corbyn..

of the two leaders setting an example in the tone of debate - I think Corbyn did a better job than Cameron..

Cameron was asked by MPs on all sides (including his own) nearly a dozen times during the debate to withdraw or apologise for his labelling of those who would not vote for bombing as "terrorist sympathisers" - and he refused... when the pathetic name-calling comes right from the "top" - then a debate is always going to go wrong somewhere down the line...

[Prufrock]

No he didn't. He linked it to the left and Corbyn in this case, because in this case it is coming from the Left (although not from Corbyn himself).

Whatabouterry is irrelevant. I haven't seen anything other than headline on Cameron's "terorist sympathisers" comment, but if he said it then yes, he's a bell-end too (not that he isn't already). Doesn't justify death-threats at Hillary Benn, which are coming from far-leftists.

[thebish]

No he didn't. He linked it to the left and Corbyn in this case, because in this case it is coming from the Left (although not from Corbyn himself).

Whatabouterry is irrelevant. I haven't seen anything other than headline on Cameron's "terorist sympathisers" comment, but if he said it then yes, he's a bell-end too (not that he isn't already). Doesn't justify death-threats at Hillary Benn, which are coming from far-leftists.

i don't believe I said it did.

I thought Hoboh might be talking about this... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/12 ... 96042.html

which is what I had read about earlier this morning...

a candle-lit vigil is not intimidation - nor are politely argued emails or messages

I also had this on my mind - a friend of mine in the North East...

Lo and behold. I 'liked' the polite comment (on fb) of someone who called for an airstrikes-supporting local Labour MP to issue a statement. Within three-quarters of an hour I am blocked from commenting on that MP's Facebook page. Not that I actually had commented on it.

in reply to questions about the people being blocked from her account, the MP (Anna Turley) replied that she had every right to block abusive people.

to which Steve has commented..

the only thing interaction I've had with Anna Turley's Facebook page timeline was to 'like' a politely-worded comment requesting that she issue a statement on her reasons for supporting airstrikes. I then shared that statement in the TSM forum on Facebook without any comment. I have also not contacted her or tagged her in any comments on Twitter.

"liking" a politely word request for a statement of an MPs views on fb is being described as "abusive"...



all of these things are being described as intolerable leftish intimidation of MPs

[Prufrock]

Which is all fine, and that sounds like a massive overreaction, but you were replying to a comment by Athers taking about the stuff Kendall and Creasy have had (which has gone weeeeell beyond likes of politely critical posts). How we were supposed to know you were on about Steve ?!

[thebish]

Which is all fine, and that sounds like a massive overreaction, but you were replying to a comment by Athers taking about the stuff Kendall and Creasy have had (which has gone weeeeell beyond likes of politely critical posts). How we were supposed to know you were on about Steve ?!

all of which is why I violently abused Hoboh by politely asking himn what he is on about on social media! none of us really knows... we can guess - but we don't know. until then - all of this is just passing the time of day talking around possible related issues...

you seemed to be suggesting that it was a given that Hoboh was talking about criminal death threats to stella creasey... i introduced steve and the candlelight vigil "abuse" to show that there are other possibilities... that's what I initially thought hoboh might have been referring to... (not steve - but the widely reported vigil!)

[Hoboh]

I don't disagree, just pointing out that in this instance what (we think) Hoboh was talking about goes beyond the pressure to vote a particular way that is how political parties work.

The way the current left wing of the labour party are behaving is right out of the 70's union setup, there is no room for anyone 'off message', if they are they should pushed to shut up or get out.
These thug tactics will see them never elected though, because unlike the unions back then they cannot dictate to the general population.
'Steve' is a nice distraction from all the Trotsky Muppets attaching to labour now, Corbyn could possibly be considered moderate, well at the extreme of the spectrum to these sorts, failed at school, failed at Uni, failed at life, the envious wanting to destroy others success, any band waggon will do.

[thebish]

I don't disagree, just pointing out that in this instance what (we think) Hoboh was talking about goes beyond the pressure to vote a particular way that is how political parties work.

The way the current left wing of the labour party are behaving is right out of the 70's union setup, there is no room for anyone 'off message',

to be fair - you don't have to go back to the seventies for that!! think - Blair/Mandelson & Campbell!

plus - this time (unlike under Blair) - labour MPs had a free vote...

also - if there is no room for anyone off message - why is Benn in the shadow cabinet?

[Worthy4England]

There's been other governments not keen on people briefing against message since the 1970's. I can think of one very particular person who wasn't at all keen on it (in the balance of not being sexist). What a laugh a minute that was - took the wets best part of 12 years to grow a pair of bollocks.

[thebish]

meanwhile... despite many, many repeated/retweeted and fb-outraged posters protesting that the demo outside Creasey's house was intolerable bullying...

Reports that demonstrators rallied outside the house of Labour MP Stella Creasy were, it transpires, untrue.

She has issued a statement via her Facebook page in which she wrote: “For avoidance of doubt, I have no reason to believe Tuesday’s protest in Walthamstow went past my house.”

Stories took off following a Facebook posting in which a man who identified himself as Paul S Jakubovic wrote: “Outside Labour MP Stella Creasy’s house in Walthamstow tonight”.

His claim was widely reported on social media and several mainstream outlets that anti-war marchers had gathered outside Creasy’s home. They included the Independent and the Huffington Post, and by broadcasters, including the BBC and LBC.

The Facebook claim, since deleted, also included a photograph. It was falsely said to picture people outside Creasy’s home. In fact, it showed people gathered outside a mosque prior to marching to Creasy’s Walthamstow office.

One of the protest organisers, Sue Wheat, wrote in seeking “to set the record straight” that the inaccurate Jakubovic posting “started off a mass media misinformation story about constituents bullying Stella.”

Creasy, who voted for air strikes on Isis in Syria, backed up Wheat’s version of events that night. She wrote: “I have no reason to think those who took part on Tuesday were not peaceful in their conduct.”

the lesson from this sad business is that mainstream media outlets should be checking single-sourced social media claims before rushing into print or to the microphone.

The non-story took off and got legs of its own. And who, anyway, is Paul S Jakubovic? Does he exist? Or did someone take his name in vain?

Whatever the case, a single posting using his identity cannot be said to be a credible journalistic source.

[KeyserSoze]

nah, she just got the intolerable bullying online instead.

[thebish]

You may or not be interested to know that even though no intimidation or bullying happened and it wasn't at Creasey's house, that didn't stop Tom Watson, (pro-bombing - centre-right) labour MP from declaring:

“To use an issue of such importance to try to divide the Labour party is reprehensible. I have seen those TV images of what went on in Stella Creasy’s constituency and I can only say if there were Labour party members on that demonstration, intimidating staff members of an MP like that, then I think they should be removed from the party. It’s simply unacceptable that people conduct themselves in that way.”

so - a centre-right labour MP is calling for the expulsion of anti-bombing MPs from the party on the strength of a totally faked fb post that got spread on twitter...

there IS a power struggle in the labour party - that's obvious and plain to see... but to characterise it as merely loony lefties destabilising the party and bullying the poor, gentle and well-meaning centre-rightists is just naive...

[thebish]

nah, she just got the intolerable bullying online instead.

indeed she did. and that is under police investigation as is entirely appropriate. so did John Mc Donnell for his anti-war stance. both unacceptable (as noted above)