Today I'm angry about.....

[thebish]

I think he is right to apologise but that should be that. He clearly didn't mean to *break the news* but its still a but awkward. Unconvinced by the knob head parents saying it has ruined Xmas though! Has it feck.and if it has that's because they're not doing it right.

Totally agree (strange, I know) . All the parents had to do was say he was wrong. and the world would be okay again. (followed by his apology it would have been acceptable to young kids.) "Knob-heads" is a good descrption of over-reactionists.

was he wrong?

You tell me. You've raised children, what did you do?

the story isn't about raising children - it's about a vicar who did a school assembly where he told some of the stories that are told about St Nicholas and talked about where the tradition of us giving presents came from. I think there's nowt wrong with him doing that... so - no - he wasn't wrong, was he? I have told some of the stories/traditions/myths that are told about St Nicholas at school assemblies - never had a problem.

I think you should give kids the info and share traditions with them - they'll make their own minds up when they are ready. If some of them think "hang on - that sounds a bit like Santa" - then maybe they are at the stage where asking questions is a good thing - and good on them.

[Prufrock]

As always, it depends what he said. Article says he was explaining the legend of Father Christmas, which sounds like the sort of thing I think wouldn't be right. You can't do that without saying to even the youngest kids, 'he's not real'. But, to channel the spirit of DSB, the quotes suggest he was taling about St Nick, and how this 'tells us why Santa Claus brings gifts at Christmas'. That's a lot more removed I think. SN could have been inspired by FC!

In any case, what does seem to have happened is a large number of kids have now realised he isn't real, which clearly wasn't his intention. I think that's the sort of situation where even if you don't mean it it's fine to apologise. It's a very British response!

[TANGODANCER]

Maybe the Guardian was even more wrong by mountain-making about the whole thing. It's obvious the vicar didn't set out with any bad intent, but it was a primary school so he should have been a bit more careful perhaps. The mother of a nine-year old should be seriously thinking about her own actions in being the one to jump forward and accuse. As I said initially, it could easily have been passed off by the parents with the younger kids.

[bobo the clown]

I recall a kid in Junior 4 (fck knows what that is in these decimal times) going round the school yard telling infants and Junior 1-2 kids that Fr. Christmas wasn't real.

There was a line of tots crying their eyes out and teachers rushing about to find out what the problem was.

... and now, today, 48 years on I name him. Shame on you John Murphy, shame on you.

[89bwfc89]

We were playing the name game last Christmas with my oldest niece, who was 6 at the time. She'd written Santa on her piece of paper and stuck it to her mums (my sis in law's) head. Sis in law asked the question "am I a real person" to which my mum said no. Niece was outraged that Granny had answered the question wrong.

Close call Granny.

[coffeymagic]

When our eldest was making his Fist Communion we went to what I thought was going to be a parents meeting.

I thought we'd be told where to sit, where our kids would be, where that bloke with the glass eye would be kept until the service was over and stuff like that.

However it turned out to be a prayer meeting.

The priest, who to the best of my knowledge doesn't have a Bishop Brennan style son waffled on for a bit and then said - exact words - 'Now if you all get down on your knees we're going to beg for forgiveness.....'

He then made up a few prayers clearly on the spot before hitting us with 'Dear Lord, please help us to be better parents by not giving in to our children too easily. If we say 'no' make us mean it and not change our minds......'

Now that's all well and good in principle but this arsehole doesn't know my kids.

I was in two minds whether to burst out laughing or stand up and put him right.

My kids don't know the meaning of the word 'give up'. They will keep on and on and on like Bart and Lisa when they want to go to Mt Splashmore.

They're prepared for the long game and I've found it's easier and better for family harmony if I just capitulate first time.

So if they want Haribos and Sunny Delight for breakfast they can have it.

Cheeky bast.

[Worthy4England]

List item #1 complete - outside Christmas lights.

Next List items #2 - replacement hall lights, #3 replacement kitchen lights, #4 card for wife, #5 Maschine

That will just leave shopping for kids and stamps...I could be free and on the pi$$ by this time tomorrow at this rate...

Now get that lawn cut and those leaves raked up.

Have you cleaned the windows yet ? I have just done the outside ones ... under severe threat to life if I didn't ... and those spider nests in the corners are bastards to move.

Thank God for the Karcher window vac. by the way.

#2, #3, #4 & #5 all complete. Gardner done the garden. Wife possesses Window Vac.

Happy days.

[Worthy4England]

Back fecking angry again. That didn't take long...tw@ts - instead of packing the SW you need to get your new hardware started - they went for online and the fecking server's down. wankers.

[TANGODANCER]

I think he is right to apologise but that should be that. He clearly didn't mean to *break the news* but its still a but awkward. Unconvinced by the knob head parents saying it has ruined Xmas though! Has it feck.and if it has that's because they're not doing it right.

Totally agree (strange, I know) . All the parents had to do was say he was wrong. and the world would be okay again. (followed by his apology it would have been acceptable to young kids.) "Knob-heads" is a good descrption of over-reactionists.

was he wrong?

You tell me. You've raised children, what did you do?

the story isn't about raising children - it's about a vicar who did a school assembly where he told some of the stories that are told about St Nicholas and talked about where the tradition of us giving presents came from. I think there's nowt wrong with him doing that... so - no - he wasn't wrong, was he? I have told some of the stories/traditions/myths that are told about St Nicholas at school assemblies - never had a problem.

I think you should give kids the info and share traditions with them - they'll make their own minds up when they are ready. If some of them think "hang on - that sounds a bit like Santa" - then maybe they are at the stage where asking questions is a good thing - and good on them.

So humour me and tell me how you handled Father Christmas with your kids?

[thebish]

So humour me and tell me how you handled Father Christmas with your kids?

why?

[TANGODANCER]

So humour me and tell me how you handled Father Christmas with your kids?

why?

Because it's on topic. You ask if the vicar was wrong, so I ask how you handled the subject of Father Christmas with your own children. If you don't wish to answer, fine. No problem to me.

[thebish]

So humour me and tell me how you handled Father Christmas with your kids?

why?

Because it's on topic. You ask if the vicar was wrong, so I ask how you handled the subject of Father Christmas with your own children. If you don't wish to answer, fine. No problem to me.

it isn't on topic!

why would it humour you to know what I did or didn't do with my kids regarding santa? that wasn't the topic at all (I know this because I started the topic)

you said the parents should have told their kids that the vicar was wrong... I don't see why it is wrong to talk about St Nicholas at Christmas time school assembly!

[TANGODANCER]

^

Simply because they were children, primary school kids who'll grow up soon enough and find their own truths. Let them have their childhood while they can. That's what I did with my kids, it just evolved naturally.

[boltonboris]

It seems to me; the vicar was doing what a lot of them do. Discredit everything to put it back to god / jesus. Knew exactly what he was doing and then said "ooops" in his campest voice as though he did it by accident

[thebish]

^

Simply because they were children, primary school kids who'll grow up soon enough and find their own truths. Let them have their childhood while they can. That's what I did with my kids, it just evolved naturally.

I agree - but I don't know why knowing the stories about St Nicholas stops anyone having a childhood... does it really??

[LeverEnd]

When our eldest was making his Fist Communion we went to what I thought was going to be a parents meeting.

Deliberate amusing typo or freudian slip?

[TANGODANCER]

^

Simply because they were children, primary school kids who'll grow up soon enough and find their own truths. Let them have their childhood while they can. That's what I did with my kids, it just evolved naturally.

I agree - but I don't know why knowing the stories about St Nicholas stops anyone having a childhood... does it really??

Come on bish, admit it. You're absolutely terrified I'll ask you the sixty four-thousand dollar question: Did you ever dress up as Father Christmas, or do a pretend Santa for your kids" If you did, then did you spoil it by telling them about St Nicholas while they were still of primary school age? .

If you didn't, then you're one miserable xxxxxxx.

[thebish]

^

Simply because they were children, primary school kids who'll grow up soon enough and find their own truths. Let them have their childhood while they can. That's what I did with my kids, it just evolved naturally.

I agree - but I don't know why knowing the stories about St Nicholas stops anyone having a childhood... does it really??

Come on bish, admit it. You're absolutely terrified I'll ask you the sixty four-thousand dollar question: Did you ever dress up as Father Christmas, or do a pretend Santa for your kids" If you did, then did you spoil it by telling them about St Nicholas while they were still of primary school age? .

If you didn't, then you're one miserable xxxxxxx.

since you seem desperate to know... (though I know not why!)

yes - I dressed up as santa on occasion - not often specifically for my kids (do people do that?) my kids were generally asleep when i put the sacks on their beds... when they got older - i still do it - still will do it this year even though the oldest is 21... he'll be awake when i tiptoe in this year - but will do what he has always done and play along...

we played along with the santa idea - but i don't really believe that my kids ever actually seriously believed that santa actually existed - not in their conscious years, anyway - and as babies - let's face it - it's not really about them - parents do it for themselves - a baby doesn't give a stuff if it's christmas day or not! most babies hate being made to sit on santa's knee in a tent in a shopping centre - it's not magic - it's petrifying!

i don't think kids - especially ones aged 9 - actually seriously believe santa climbs down chimneys and leaves presents - it's all a knowing game - a nice tradition - and so we do/did it gladly... knowing about st nicholas doesn't change or destroy that...

my kids also knew about St Nicholas (I'd be surprised if you didn't by the time you were 9 - and did you keep the info on st nicholas from your kids until they went to secondary school? really?? did you censor the encyclopaedia??) - my kids did it all as a project at primary school - and it affected the santa tradition in our household NOT ONE JOT...

so - there you have it - you are humoured!

despite your best efforts - I still don't think knowing about st nicholas takes away childhood... I still think that's a bit hysterical (if you don't mind me saying so!) kids are not stupid - they are more than capable of dealing with fantasy and knowing-makebelieve - and enjoying it - and separating categories of knowledge and information accordingly.

[Beefheart]

Younger kids can also be quite easily convinced that Santa is in fact real if for whatever reason they are told otherwise. My younger brother is 5 years younger than I am so got to maintain the illusion for him for a few years after I realised the truth. I don't think I was even bothered when I did find out.

[Prufrock]

I think there is a period where kids do really believe it. Then a period of pretending to. I think that period is a good parallel for religion actually. I remember thinking I didn't believe he was real, but pretending to in case he was/I didn't get presents