Today I'm angry about.....

[Athers]

I can't really remember much of the years of believing but I do remember thinking that he'll be lucky if my dad hasn't eaten that mince pie by the time he gets here.

[TANGODANCER]

^

Simply because they were children, primary school kids who'll grow up soon enough and find their own truths. Let them have their childhood while they can. That's what I did with my kids, it just evolved naturally.

I agree - but I don't know why knowing the stories about St Nicholas stops anyone having a childhood... does it really??

Come on bish, admit it. You're absolutely terrified I'll ask you the sixty four-thousand dollar question: Did you ever dress up as Father Christmas, or do a pretend Santa for your kids" If you did, then did you spoil it by telling them about St Nicholas while they were still of primary school age? .

If you didn't, then you're one miserable xxxxxxx.

since you seem desperate to know... (though I know not why!)

yes - I dressed up as santa on occasion - not often specifically for my kids (do people do that?) my kids were generally asleep when i put the sacks on their beds... when they got older - i still do it - still will do it this year even though the oldest is 21... he'll be awake when i tiptoe in this year - but will do what he has always done and play along...

we played along with the santa idea - but i don't really believe that my kids ever actually seriously believed that santa actually existed - not in their conscious years, anyway - and as babies - let's face it - it's not really about them - parents do it for themselves - a baby doesn't give a stuff if it's christmas day or not! most babies hate being made to sit on santa's knee in a tent in a shopping centre - it's not magic - it's petrifying!

i don't think kids - especially ones aged 9 - actually seriously believe santa climbs down chimneys and leaves presents - it's all a knowing game - a nice tradition - and so we do/did it gladly... knowing about st nicholas doesn't change or destroy that...

my kids also knew about St Nicholas (I'd be surprised if you didn't by the time you were 9 - and did you keep the info on st nicholas from your kids until they went to secondary school? really?? did you censor the encyclopaedia??) - my kids did it all as a project at primary school - and it affected the santa tradition in our household NOT ONE JOT...

so - there you have it - you are humoured!

despite your best efforts - I still don't think knowing about st nicholas takes away childhood... I still think that's a bit hysterical (if you don't mind me saying so!) kids are not stupid - they are more than capable of dealing with fantasy and knowing-makebelieve - and enjoying it - and separating categories of knowledge and information accordingly.

I was goint to reply, honest, but I went outside and head-butted the garage instead. It made more sense.

[thebish]

^ tango - you asked (more than once), I assumed you were interested. I have given you a very honest and full reply. what's your problem??

do you disagree with anything I have written? if so - what?

[thebish]

Dyson Vaccuum Cleaners...

so you claim they NEVER lose suction Mr Dyson? This one just sucking did...

20minutes, fiddly plastic clips, screws and detached pipes later - it's clogged by a big clag of knotted hair - which, I hasten to add, is definitely not mine. pah! sucky pile of over-designed junk!

[Montreal Wanderer]

Maybe the Guardian was even more wrong by mountain-making about the whole thing. It's obvious the vicar didn't set out with any bad intent, but it was a primary school so he should have been a bit more careful perhaps. The mother of a nine-year old should be seriously thinking about her own actions in being the one to jump forward and accuse. As I said initially, it could easily have been passed off by the parents with the younger kids.

I'm a bit surprised that 9-year olds still believe in Santa Claus, and see nothing wrong in telling children that age about Saint Nicholas. After all he could have become the immortal Santa Claus after he passed on from mortal life. But the quote about this mother was also surprising:

Linzi Merritt, whose son Levi, nine, attends the school, said: "We wouldn't just walk into the church during one of his services and tell everyone there that Jesus isn't real. He's a person of authority and it's not his place to be telling the children that.

Any child called Levi that I have ever met has been Jewish, but why would Jews worry about Catholic saints?

[Prufrock]

He was probably named after the jeans.

[Montreal Wanderer]

He was probably named after the jeans.

Levi Strauss was an American Jew but perhaps Linzi did not know that.

[Annoyed Grunt]

I'm a bit surprised that 9-year olds still believe in Santa Claus, and see nothing wrong in telling children that age about Saint Nicholas. After all he could have become the immortal Santa Claus after he passed on from mortal life.

My kids 9, I think he still believes........

[thebish]

I'm a bit surprised that 9-year olds still believe in Santa Claus, and see nothing wrong in telling children that age about Saint Nicholas. After all he could have become the immortal Santa Claus after he passed on from mortal life.

My kids 9, I think he still believes........

nahhh - he doesn't - he just doesn't want to hurt your feelings!

[Annoyed Grunt]

I'm a bit surprised that 9-year olds still believe in Santa Claus, and see nothing wrong in telling children that age about Saint Nicholas. After all he could have become the immortal Santa Claus after he passed on from mortal life.

My kids 9, I think he still believes........

nahhh - he doesn't - he just doesn't want to hurt your feelings!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

[bobo the clown]

I'm a bit surprised that 9-year olds still believe in Santa Claus, and see nothing wrong in telling children that age about Saint Nicholas. After all he could have become the immortal Santa Claus after he passed on from mortal life.

My kids 9, I think he still believes........

nahhh - he doesn't - he just doesn't want to hurt your feelings!

If it's any consolation there Grunty this means that when Fr. Christmas doesn't bring him his deepest heart's desire he actually knows it's YOU who's let him down so badly !!

It just brings the teenage years forward a little.


You're welcome.

[Worthy4England]

I'm a bit surprised that 9-year olds still believe in Santa Claus, and see nothing wrong in telling children that age about Saint Nicholas. After all he could have become the immortal Santa Claus after he passed on from mortal life.

My kids 9, I think he still believes........

nahhh - he doesn't - he just doesn't want to hurt your feelings!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

I'm with you Grunty and mine's 11.

I suspect he's probably convincing himself that conning some dude you're not going to meet that you've been good, is a better gamble than the alternative.

[Annoyed Grunt]

If he does, he does....no big deal if he doesn't.......

Just dropped the wife off in Manchester city centre......the traffic was fecking awful.......I could've pulled over and caved peoples heads in......

[William the White]

I'm a bit surprised that 9-year olds still believe in Santa Claus, and see nothing wrong in telling children that age about Saint Nicholas. After all he could have become the immortal Santa Claus after he passed on from mortal life.

My kids 9, I think he still believes........

nahhh - he doesn't - he just doesn't want to hurt your feelings!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

I'm with you Grunty and mine's 11.

I suspect he's probably convincing himself that conning some dude you're not going to meet that you've been good, is a better gamble than the alternative.

Age has nowt to do with it. My dad was 83 when he died but he could still sing 'Jingle Bells'.

[Worthy4England]

[Harry Genshaw]

If he does, he does....no big deal if he doesn't.......

Just dropped the wife off in Manchester city centre......the traffic was fecking awful.......I could've pulled over and caved peoples heads in......

Been in Manchester for the last couple of days and it was starting to get VERY busy. The crowds coming into Piccadilly this morning were massive.

Glad to see Northern Rail are prepared though. They've put posters up advising folk it gets busy at this time of year and they should try and stagger their journeys. I suppose it beats putting extra trains & carriages on We rolled past a Manchester bound train at Bolton station - there were folk in there pressed against the door windows looking ready to collapse

[TANGODANCER]

If he does, he does....no big deal if he doesn't.......

Just dropped the wife off in Manchester city centre......the traffic was fecking awful.......I could've pulled over and caved peoples heads in......

Been in Manchester for the last couple of days and it was starting to get VERY busy. The crowds coming into Piccadilly this morning were massive.

Glad to see Northern Rail are prepared though. They've put posters up advising folk it gets busy at this time of year and they should try and stagger their journeys. I suppose it beats putting extra trains & carriages on We rolled past a Manchester bound train at Bolton station - there were folk in there pressed against the door windows looking ready to collapse

That was always the normal scenario trying to get to work in Manchester at 7-15 am. Not much has changed then. Got so bad trying to get to Oxford Road I started catching the Victoria train and walking to Oxford Road from Salford Central. Pain in the ass in the bad weather, but at least you got to work on time.

[Harry Genshaw]

Been in Manchester for the last couple of days and it was starting to get VERY busy. The crowds coming into Piccadilly this morning were massive.

Glad to see Northern Rail are prepared though. They've put posters up advising folk it gets busy at this time of year and they should try and stagger their journeys. I suppose it beats putting extra trains & carriages on We rolled past a Manchester bound train at Bolton station - there were folk in there pressed against the door windows looking ready to collapse

That was always the normal scenario trying to get to work in Manchester at 7-15 am. Not much has changed then. Got so bad trying to get to Oxford Road I started catching the Victoria train and walking to Oxford Road from Salford Central. Pain in the ass in the bad weather, but at least you got to work on time.

I don't do much commuting by train thankfully but it beggars belief to me that on what's going to be the 2nd (?) busiest weekend of the year there are still trains with just 2 carriages on like it's a mid afternoon in September.

[Annoyed Grunt]

If he does, he does....no big deal if he doesn't.......

Just dropped the wife off in Manchester city centre......the traffic was fecking awful.......I could've pulled over and caved peoples heads in......

Been in Manchester for the last couple of days and it was starting to get VERY busy. The crowds coming into Piccadilly this morning were massive.

Glad to see Northern Rail are prepared though. They've put posters up advising folk it gets busy at this time of year and they should try and stagger their journeys. I suppose it beats putting extra trains & carriages on We rolled past a Manchester bound train at Bolton station - there were folk in there pressed against the door windows looking ready to collapse

It was horrendous......suppose it's my own fault really, should've realised.....

[TANGODANCER]

I don't do much commuting by train thankfully but it beggars belief to me that on what's going to be the 2nd (?) busiest weekend of the year there are still trains with just 2 carriages on like it's a mid afternoon in September.

A real class act is the famous "disappearing train trick". When it's due the board shows a five minutes delay. Ten minutes later this changes to fifteen minutes late. The board then shows twenty five minutes late, which is the exact same time the next one's due. That rolls up, goes out crowded and the board just shows the time of the next train again. Voila, who's any the wiser?

Then there's the "Let's have a platform change and fxxx em all up by only announcing it when the train's coming in across the tracks and everybody has to fight their way up the stairs and down the other side" That's a real howl.

And the driver who gets off the train and announces he can't carry on because his hours are up. Big problem because there doesn't happen to be another driver around, the platform's blocked and nobody appears to know what to do....

Believe me, all these wonders have I actually seen.....