Today I'm angry about.....

[jaffka]

Erm, correct me if I'm wrong, but we're discussing whether death is a deterrent to a man who's about to commit suicide for something he believes in?

Really, we are, aren't we?

Not really. The man who is frantically searching old posts raised it.

The response on this thread was about Mark Duggan.

[jaffka]

But they shot him on a train. His supposed intended target.

He wasn't a suicide bomber, which came out in the following investigation.

Have you done any research into suicide bombers?

[Lord Kangana]

You just said it was a deterrent. They thought he was a suicide bomber. He was on a train. They thought he was going to bomb a train. Surely thats fairly straightforward?

And my research begins and ends with their intention - committing suicide.

[jaffka]

You just said it was a deterrent. They thought he was a suicide bomber. He was on a train. They thought he was going to bomb a train. Surely thats fairly straightforward?

And my research begins and ends with their intention - committing suicide.

I didn't think that you knew anything.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

So due process and rule of law completely unnecessary then?
Why not just shoot suspected wrongdoers then?
Happy with that?

Yes

?.. and if you were "seeing" an armed response coppers missus on the side and he found out

That's a ridiculous statement.

Is it unlike the claim that suicide bombers are deterred by the possibility of being shot.
The point is that you give coppers carte blanche to be judge jury executioner and who knows where it ends .
Duggan was from the Broadwater Farm Estate.Some might just make something of that...

[jaffka]

So due process and rule of law completely unnecessary then?
Why not just shoot suspected wrongdoers then?
Happy with that?

Yes

?.. and if you were "seeing" an armed response coppers missus on the side and he found out

That's a ridiculous statement.

Is it unlike the claim that suicide bombers are deterred by the possibility of being shot.
The point is that you give coppers carte blanche to be judge jury executioner and who knows where it ends .
Duggan was from the Broadwater Farm Estate.Some might just make something of that...

Are you aware that their is several provisions in the law for the state to use deadly force?

As far as I am aware the police do a job, protecting people. I don't always agree with them but on some like this I do.

Re Broadwater, I would imagine pot smoking, idle bastard conspiracy theorists make the link.

Suicide bombers, go and read up about terrorist attacks and what they want to achieve.

[Harry Genshaw]

The Police behaviour in the De Menezes incident was pretty appalling, particularly the way they handled the aftermath. Can't say I'm comfortable though with comparing the death of an innocent electrician to the death of an armed gangster.

[jaffka]

The Police behaviour in the De Menezes incident was pretty appalling, particularly the way they handled the aftermath. Can't say I'm comfortable though with comparing the death of an innocent electrician to the death of an armed gangster.

The don't compare then

[Harry Genshaw]

The Police behaviour in the De Menezes incident was pretty appalling, particularly the way they handled the aftermath. Can't say I'm comfortable though with comparing the death of an innocent electrician to the death of an armed gangster.

The don't compare then

Sorry, my bobbins command of the English language. What I was trying to say was I don't agree with folk comparing the 2 incidents. I've no real issue with how the Police responded in the Duggan incident

[thebish]

Erm, correct me if I'm wrong, but we're discussing whether death is a deterrent to a man who's about to commit suicide for something he believes in?

Really, we are, aren't we?

Not really. The man who is frantically searching old posts raised it.

The response on this thread was about Mark Duggan.

i didn't raise suicide bombers at all - I raised Jean Charles de Menezes - he wasn't a suicide bomber, was he?

nor did i raise "old posts" - it was you who raised "old posts".

you claimed that the innocent need have no fear - yet, Jean Charles de Menezes still got shot...

[jaffka]

Erm, correct me if I'm wrong, but we're discussing whether death is a deterrent to a man who's about to commit suicide for something he believes in?

Really, we are, aren't we?

Not really. The man who is frantically searching old posts raised it.

The response on this thread was about Mark Duggan.

i didn't raise suicide bombers at all - I raised Jean Charles de Menezes - he wasn't a suicide bomber, was he?

nor did i raise "old posts" - it was you who raised "old posts".

you claimed that the innocent need have no fear - yet, Jean Charles de Menezes still got shot...

What was the operation concerned with when the Brazilian chap was killed?

When he was killed what was it initially believed he was?

[thebish]

irrelevant... he was innocent - he was shot to death - he had real reason to be afraid and was innocent...

what you said was wrong - sometimes the innocent DO have reason to be afraid of armed police

not sure why you think this is controversial...

[jaffka]

irrelevant... he was innocent - he was shot to death - he had real reason to be afraid and was innocent...

what you said was wrong - sometimes the innocent DO have reason to be afraid of armed police

not sure why you think this is controversial...

It was very relevant at the time when he was shot.

I disagree with you telling me I am wrong and therefore call you a buffoon.

I don't know anyone who has been killed by the police, maybe you are different.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

Is it unlike the claim that suicide bombers are deterred by the possibility of being shot.
The point is that you give coppers carte blanche to be judge jury executioner and who knows where it ends .
Duggan was from the Broadwater Farm Estate.Some might just make something of that...[/quote]

Are you aware that their is several provisions in the law for the state to use deadly force?

As far as I am aware the police do a job, protecting people. I don't always agree with them but on some like this I do.

Re Broadwater, I would imagine pot smoking, idle bastard conspiracy theorists make the link.

Suicide bombers, go and read up about terrorist attacks and what they want to achieve.[/quote]

Yes..
As faras I, m aware the police frequently do a good job protecting people. They also (increasingly) over step the mark.. and in their handling of this case I suspect they did.
Dont do drugs, have a job and had a dad who happened to be married to my mum, but feel free to hold your own theory (conspiritationally or otherwise) on why I made the possible connection
I am well aware of suicide bombers wish for martyrdom and attracting maximum publicity for their cause.. not quite sure on why believing armed police possibly could apprehend and shoot them before they got to the point of carrying out their heinous act would deter them though.

[jaffka]

Is it unlike the claim that suicide bombers are deterred by the possibility of being shot.
The point is that you give coppers carte blanche to be judge jury executioner and who knows where it ends .
Duggan was from the Broadwater Farm Estate.Some might just make something of that...

Are you aware that their is several provisions in the law for the state to use deadly force?

As far as I am aware the police do a job, protecting people. I don't always agree with them but on some like this I do.

Re Broadwater, I would imagine pot smoking, idle bastard conspiracy theorists make the link.

Suicide bombers, go and read up about terrorist attacks and what they want to achieve.[/quote]

Yes..
As faras I, m aware the police frequently do a good job protecting people. They also (increasingly) over step the mark.. and in their handling of this case I suspect they did.
Dont do drugs, have a job and had a dad who happened to be married to my mum, but feel free to hold your own theory (conspiritationally or otherwise) on why I made the possible connection
I am well aware of suicide bombers wish for martyrdom and attracting maximum publicity for their cause.. not quite sure on why believing armed police possibly could apprehend and shoot them before they got to the point of carrying out their heinous act would deter them though.[/quote]

A jury disagrees with you.

Obviously in your world, the mere act of just giving up your life is a nothing. I'm impressed with your research done regarding terrorists though so you must accept that anything other than a success is a failure and paying for that with your life in the process is a deterrent.

[thebish]

irrelevant... he was innocent - he was shot to death - he had real reason to be afraid and was innocent...

what you said was wrong - sometimes the innocent DO have reason to be afraid of armed police

not sure why you think this is controversial...

It was very relevant at the time when he was shot.

I disagree with you telling me I am wrong and therefore call you a buffoon.

I don't know anyone who has been killed by the police, maybe you are different.

you said that the innocent need have no fear of armed police - yes?
Jean Charles de Menezes was innocent - yes?
he was killed by armed police - yes?
so he had reason to be afraid - yes?
so - sometimes innocent people DO have reason to be afraid of armed police..

i don't see how it is at all relevant whether you or I personally know anyone who was killed by the police.

call me all the names you like if you think it makes your case stronger...

[jaffka]

irrelevant... he was innocent - he was shot to death - he had real reason to be afraid and was innocent...

what you said was wrong - sometimes the innocent DO have reason to be afraid of armed police

not sure why you think this is controversial...

It was very relevant at the time when he was shot.

I disagree with you telling me I am wrong and therefore call you a buffoon.

I don't know anyone who has been killed by the police, maybe you are different.

you said that the innocent need have no fear of armed police - yes?
Jean Charles de Menezes was innocent - yes?
he was killed by armed police - yes?
so he had reason to be afraid - yes?
so - sometimes innocent people DO have reason to be afraid of armed police..

i don't see how it is at all relevant whether you or I personally know anyone who was killed by the police.

call me all the names you like if you think it makes your case stronger...

I'm innocent and have no fear of the police, maybe you do, maybe your not innocent...

We are going round in circles with Charles de Menezes and quite frankly I find your ignorance deplorable.

As for name calling, its nothing compared to what the people you seem to be supporting were yelling outside the court.

[Lord Kangana]

Perhaps Jaffka would be happy if the Police shot him as a deterrent to paedophiles then?

[boltonboris]

The evidence in this case, to me, seems so painstakingly collected and distributed to the jury, that only one outcome was possible. The one that favours the establishment.

So many questions. What was the copper doing taking what looked like a weapon out of a car and putting it at the scene (CCTV footage shown in news, but apparently not to jurors). Why wasn't the victims DNA on the weapon they claimed was in his possession? Oh wait, you can cover fingerprints by wearing gloves. Was he wearing gloves when he was murdered??????

It's becoming a trend that people in seniority can murder and not be made accountable.

[jaffka]

Perhaps Jaffka would be happy if the Police shot him as a deterrent to paedophiles then?