The Politics Thread

[thebish]

aye - yes Pru - what you described sounds like just about any constituency meeting of just about any political party.

they all have their regulars - and they all have their local cranks who like to belong to stuff and shout stuff out every now and again.

when there's a do on, they have noobs who come along and are amazed and shocked by it all - and think the cranks are taking over the asylum - but the regulars have learned who to listen to and who not to listen to - who to ignore and who to take notice of. in fact - not just constituency meetings - but that's true of many, many, many clubs and associations of all flavours and persuasions...

[Prufrock]

Yeah, it wasn't like that. There was the crank who kicked it off, fine, I think plenty of the Corbyn lot winced when he spoke, but the shouting down of the final speaker, a Jewish woman, was concerted, throughout the room, and vociferous. She wanted to speak about the report and anti semitism in the party and what it felt like to be Jewish and in the Labour Party, and they were not having it. She wasn't being heard.

What's more, even if I did believe that it's always been like that, and that that is more-or-less OK, which I don't, and it isn't, Corbyn and his supporters don't get to say that. We were told it was going to be different, more inclusive. This certainly wasn't kinder, gentler politics, and it was Corbyn supporters (or, to be fair, MI5 plants) making it that way.

I've been careful not to overplay it, it wasn't threatening, there was no hint of violence, but it was aggressive and intimidating. I think you asked me if I, as a young person, felt my arm was being twisted. Whilst being ever glad to take "young person", I'm not all that young anymore. It was a difficult atmosphere and I think would certainly have put some people off. Which is sad and to be deplored, IMO.

[thebish]

Yeah, it wasn't like that. There was the crank who kicked it off, fine, I think plenty of the Corbyn lot winced when he spoke, but the shouting down of the final speaker, a Jewish woman, was concerted, throughout the room, and vociferous. She wanted to speak about the report and anti semitism in the party and what it felt like to be Jewish and in the Labour Party, and they were not having it. She wasn't being heard.

What's more, even if I did believe that it's always been like that, and that that is more-or-less OK, which I don't, and it isn't, Corbyn and his supporters don't get to say that. We were told it was going to be different, more inclusive. This certainly wasn't kinder, gentler politics, and it was Corbyn supporters (or, to be fair, MI5 plants) making it that way.

I've been careful not to overplay it, it wasn't threatening, there was no hint of violence, but it was aggressive and intimidating. I think you asked me if I, as a young person, felt my arm was being twisted. Whilst being ever glad to take "young person", I'm not all that young anymore. It was a difficult atmosphere and I think would certainly have out dune people off. Which is sad and to be deplored, IMO.

can't take issue with you there as I wasn't there! but it's clear that people are NOT being put off - quite the opposite - people are joining the labour party in numbers surpassing anything I can remember for a long time - even in the Blair years of polished success...

I have said many times before that I am far from sure Corbyn would ever win an election - but (not specifically your post now) the analysis that this is all down to a small bunch of dangerous lefties taking over the party is, I think, short of the mark. Were it that simple they'd have done it years ago.

I think there are loons about - but they are by no means the whole picture. I think swathes of previosuly non-political people - many of them young, naive idealists, granted - HAVE seen what you casually dismiss above - something different about Corbyn - something OTHER than the usual claim-all-my-expenses/travel by limousine/out-for-what-i-can-get politician. They see him on a bicycle - sitting on the floor on a train on the way to hustings because he won't upgrade his ticket while everyone else has to sit on the floor or stand - on the bus - walking - down the allotment... they see a man who put his money where his mouth was on issues that were NOT popular or even mainstream issues many years ago - being arrested for protesting against apartheid (for instance)... They have seen a man who - at PMQs never descended into the childish name-calling bollox that was constantly thrown at him - not that I remember, anyway.

you could SAY this is all spin - but a lot of it is not - it is who he has always been - he has integrity - his life matches his words... now - that is easily dismissed and easy to be snide about - but I think there is something hugely attractive about a politician whose life matches his words... I think that attractiveness explains the crowds rthat gather to hear him speak up and down the country - they are not crowds of radical lefties suddenly appearing from the woodwork... most of them or just ordinary people..

does all this mean he'd be a great PM? I don't think so, sadly... (chiefly because he doesn't command his parliamentary troops - which is his bad - and also theirs..) and we have a right-of-centre electorate at the moment.

I can't see why people think Smith is a better option, though! an unknown version of the same thing, it seems to me.

[Lord Kangana]

Yeah, yeah, but the question we all really want answering is 'does he live in a house?'

I think we all know the answer.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Smith is a hollow vessel, but for f*cks sake, after the lessons of NI, why are people in this country so childish as to not think that talking might be preferable to endless, unremiting death and destruction?

Probably best that Trump gets elected, let him press the reset button and we can start the whole thing again from thermal vents.

Being Ant & Dec are extremely popular and very often in the media, I'd say that Corbyn is stuck in his little cardboard box and out of touch with the main stream!

I'd never heard of them until they were mentioned on here a year or so ago. Perhaps I should run for the leadership.

[bobo the clown]

Yeah, yeah, but the question we all really want answering is 'does he live in a house?'

I think we all know the answer.

He does .... but one with a branch across the front door which makes him have to duck every time he goes in & out of it.

Showing him to be lacking in observation skills, no empathy for the great British institution of gardening (which foreign types don't 'get') and being lazy.

So. If those aren't warning signs enough I don't know what would be.

[Lord Kangana]

Is it a special branch?

[Prufrock]

Yeah, it wasn't like that. There was the crank who kicked it off, fine, I think plenty of the Corbyn lot winced when he spoke, but the shouting down of the final speaker, a Jewish woman, was concerted, throughout the room, and vociferous. She wanted to speak about the report and anti semitism in the party and what it felt like to be Jewish and in the Labour Party, and they were not having it. She wasn't being heard.

What's more, even if I did believe that it's always been like that, and that that is more-or-less OK, which I don't, and it isn't, Corbyn and his supporters don't get to say that. We were told it was going to be different, more inclusive. This certainly wasn't kinder, gentler politics, and it was Corbyn supporters (or, to be fair, MI5 plants) making it that way.

I've been careful not to overplay it, it wasn't threatening, there was no hint of violence, but it was aggressive and intimidating. I think you asked me if I, as a young person, felt my arm was being twisted. Whilst being ever glad to take "young person", I'm not all that young anymore. It was a difficult atmosphere and I think would certainly have out dune people off. Which is sad and to be deplored, IMO.

can't take issue with you there as I wasn't there! but it's clear that people are NOT being put off - quite the opposite - people are joining the labour party in numbers surpassing anything I can remember for a long time - even in the Blair years of polished success...

I have said many times before that I am far from sure Corbyn would ever win an election - but (not specifically your post now) the analysis that this is all down to a small bunch of dangerous lefties taking over the party is, I think, short of the mark. Were it that simple they'd have done it years ago.

I think there are loons about - but they are by no means the whole picture. I think swathes of previosuly non-political people - many of them young, naive idealists, granted - HAVE seen what you casually dismiss above - something different about Corbyn - something OTHER than the usual claim-all-my-expenses/travel by limousine/out-for-what-i-can-get politician. They see him on a bicycle - sitting on the floor on a train on the way to hustings because he won't upgrade his ticket while everyone else has to sit on the floor or stand - on the bus - walking - down the allotment... they see a man who put his money where his mouth was on issues that were NOT popular or even mainstream issues many years ago - being arrested for protesting against apartheid (for instance)... They have seen a man who - at PMQs never descended into the childish name-calling bollox that was constantly thrown at him - not that I remember, anyway.

you could SAY this is all spin - but a lot of it is not - it is who he has always been - he has integrity - his life matches his words... now - that is easily dismissed and easy to be snide about - but I think there is something hugely attractive about a politician whose life matches his words... I think that attractiveness explains the crowds rthat gather to hear him speak up and down the country - they are not crowds of radical lefties suddenly appearing from the woodwork... most of them or just ordinary people..

does all this mean he'd be a great PM? I don't think so, sadly... (chiefly because he doesn't command his parliamentary troops - which is his bad - and also theirs..) and we have a right-of-centre electorate at the moment.

I can't see why people think Smith is a better option, though! an unknown version of the same thing, it seems to me.

1) well that makes no sense. Just because lots of new people are joining the party doesn't mean other people aren't being put off speaking against Corbyn at party meetings. There are plenty of stories of it happening across the country and I saw it too.

2)He's certainly been very successful at adding numbers to the Labour Party. For what it's worth, I don't think the majority are either dyed in the wool old Trots or legions of young people. Most of thei have spoken to who are Corbyn fans left in the last 25 years through disillusionment (though hardly SWP types and are rejoicing). I also think all the left student groups are joining. When I was a student and a member of the revolutionary socialist society (there wasn't a non-revo version to join) no-one was a member. I imagine almost all of my successors are.

It's not enough though, to remotely stand a chance of winning. His "biggest rally in Milton Keynes history" attracted 3% of the population. Hooray. And now there's no opposition.

[Bruce Rioja]

Yeah, yeah, but the question we all really want answering is 'does he live in a house?'

I think we all know the answer.

His front garden's as unkempt as his own disheveled appearance. Absolutely shocking.

[bobo the clown]

Pru - "When I was a student and a member of the revolutionary socialist society .... "

Jeysus. Your conversion to Toryism is now a certainty.

[Prufrock]

Lovely bunch. Almost exclusively educated in nice North London "state schools". This was just post 2008 and Syu there was lots to talk about. They were going to organise factory take-overs by the workers locking out the owners. Having just spent the summer working in a factory I was sceptical as to whether this might happen. We'd have someone come in and do a talk on climate change and then go to the pub and get hammered talking about sport, the news and the Battle of Stalingrad (the only things about which I knew, and indeed know now, come from Peep Show).

[Prufrock]

In other news, Jeremy "too busy dealing with real issues to know who Ant and Dec are" Corbyn has just released his own set of emojis.

Lord above.

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/08/18/jer ... le-of-wtf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bobo the clown]

It's cool. Lots of Stivichall v young things with no real idea do it.

What I find odd is that if someone joins a political group with extreme leftist views it's seen as a right of passage and, frankly, a bit cute .... even if its ambitions are revolution & overthrow of the state, including theft and take-over of private property and often with aspects of intimidation and violence.

Whereas if someone affiliates with right-leaning groups it's life-shatteringly awful and simply unforgivable.

Just a contrast, that's all.

[bobo the clown]

In other news, Jeremy "too busy dealing with real issues to know who Ant and Dec are" Corbyn has just released his own set of emojis.

Lord above.

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/08/18/jer ... le-of-wtf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh dear.

His team are clearly jealous of the EdStone moment.

At least you KNOW he's not had the faintest say in this.

[BWFC_Insane]

It's cool. Lots of Stivichall v young things with no real idea do it.

What I find odd is that if someone joins a political group with extreme leftist views it's seen as a right of passage and, frankly, a bit cute .... even if its ambitions are revolution & overthrow of the state, including theft and take-over of private property and often with aspects of intimidation and violence.

Whereas if someone affiliates with right-leaning groups it's life-shatteringly awful and simply unforgivable.

Just a contrast, that's all.

It would be odd if it were a thing and not just a figment of your imagination....

[bobo the clown]

Really ?

[bobo the clown]

Really ?

You'll be saying the BBC is based to the right next.

[Prufrock]

You really find it strange?

I think there are very few things more tragic than a young Tory. When you're 17 and have barely seen the world you're supposed to think everyone should just get on and share things.

[Bruce Rioja]

You really find it strange?

I think there are very few things more tragic than a young Tory. When you're 17 and have barely seen the world you're supposed to think everyone should just get on and share things.

Prior to embarking on a career in a legal capacity.

[Prufrock]

And the BBC is a good litmus test for judging anyone's sanity! Biased my arse. The opposite, sometimes painfully so.

Speaking of media bias, Jeremy won't participate in hustings organised by the Mirror, New Stateman, Channel 4 or the Guardian (who still employ his Director of Comms), as they are biased against him.

The Four Outriders of the mainstream Tory media.