Today I'm neither Angry nor Happy about....

[Bruce Rioja]

Forgive me please if I display a level of numptiness here, but I can't see the supposed racist slur here.

Sergio Garcia has apologised for remarks aimed at Tiger Woods that sparked a racism controversy at the European Tour’s gala dinner in London on Tuesday night.

Asked when he would be inviting Woods round for dinner at the US Open next month, the Spaniard replied “he can come every night - we will serve fried chicken.”

The racist overtones caused a stir at the prestigious European Tour Player Awards

Fried chicken is stereotypically food for American blacks.

Ah, cheers. How come? All Americans exist predominantly on fried chicken from what I've seen (especially the wings)

[Montreal Wanderer]

Forgive me please if I display a level of numptiness here, but I can't see the supposed racist slur here.

Sergio Garcia has apologised for remarks aimed at Tiger Woods that sparked a racism controversy at the European Tour’s gala dinner in London on Tuesday night.

Asked when he would be inviting Woods round for dinner at the US Open next month, the Spaniard replied “he can come every night - we will serve fried chicken.”

The racist overtones caused a stir at the prestigious European Tour Player Awards

Fried chicken is stereotypically food for American blacks.

Ah, cheers. How come? All Americans exist predominantly on fried chicken from what I've seen (especially the wings)

Just a stereotype. See wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype ... ted_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As with every other identifiable group, stereotypes continue today. Blacks are often portrayed as lazy and very religious. They also are portrayed as having a love of fried chicken, watermelon, corn bread, Kool-Aid, waffles and grape drink

[Harry Genshaw]

I really cant see the offense here. If Woods had been asked a similar question and replied "He can come anytime he likes, I'll be serving Tapas" - would that be deemed as offensive?

Some days I dont feel up to date with the current rules...

[Montreal Wanderer]

I really cant see the offense here. If Woods had been asked a similar question and replied "He can come anytime he likes, I'll be serving Tapas" - would that be deemed as offensive?

Some days I dont feel up to date with the current rules...

It doesn't bother me when people apply English or Canadian stereotypes to me. Perhaps I lack sensitivity because I am not a persecuted visible minority, and have never been the object of racism. Clearly stereotyping can been hurtful to those who have suffered, so it seems to me best avoided.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Gym changing room ettiquette: surely I can't be alone in thinking that it's totally unacceptable for a bloke to stand there and put his shirt on AND tie his tie before putting any clothing whatsoever on the bottom half of his body?

[mrkint]

Gym changing room ettiquette: surely I can't be alone in thinking that it's totally unacceptable for a bloke to stand there and put his shirt on AND tie his tie before putting any clothing whatsoever on the bottom half of his body?

That is a bit odd.

One guy t'other week put one sock on, THEN the shoe on and tied it, before even taking a glance at the other foot. Always seemed strange to me

[thebish]

Gym changing room ettiquette: surely I can't be alone in thinking that it's totally unacceptable for a bloke to stand there and put his shirt on AND tie his tie before putting any clothing whatsoever on the bottom half of his body?

just dressing the top half before popping for a session on the bidet... perfectly normal!

[Beefheart]

Gym changing room ettiquette: surely I can't be alone in thinking that it's totally unacceptable for a bloke to stand there and put his shirt on AND tie his tie before putting any clothing whatsoever on the bottom half of his body?

That is a bit odd.

One guy t'other week put one sock on, THEN the shoe on and tied it, before even taking a glance at the other foot. Always seemed strange to me

That is weird. I know someone who puts the water in before the cordial.

[boltonboris]

Gym changing room ettiquette: surely I can't be alone in thinking that it's totally unacceptable for a bloke to stand there and put his shirt on AND tie his tie before putting any clothing whatsoever on the bottom half of his body?

That is a bit odd.

One guy t'other week put one sock on, THEN the shoe on and tied it, before even taking a glance at the other foot. Always seemed strange to me

I do that at football.. Left sock, left boot, shinpad. Repeat on right.

[thebish]

Gym changing room ettiquette: surely I can't be alone in thinking that it's totally unacceptable for a bloke to stand there and put his shirt on AND tie his tie before putting any clothing whatsoever on the bottom half of his body?

That is a bit odd.

One guy t'other week put one sock on, THEN the shoe on and tied it, before even taking a glance at the other foot. Always seemed strange to me

if you've been swimming then it can sometimes make sense (if the floor is wet) to get one foot dried and sorted so you can then put it back down on the wet floor and sort the other...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I really cant see the offense here. If Woods had been asked a similar question and replied "He can come anytime he likes, I'll be serving Tapas" - would that be deemed as offensive?

Some days I dont feel up to date with the current rules...

It doesn't bother me when people apply English or Canadian stereotypes to me. Perhaps I lack sensitivity because I am not a persecuted visible minority, and have never been the object of racism. Clearly stereotyping can been hurtful to those who have suffered, so it seems to me best avoided.

And I say that's bullshit.
If somebody says "he can come around anytime for baked hedgehog" (and can even possibly add "kushti" at the end), it's hardly a racist slur.
If on the other hand somebody suggests that I'm a Pikey and mentions it in an insulting way, at that point I can understand the racist insult.
But that, it's not an insult and it's hardly racist. As a 'white' third generation Pikey, can I not eat fried chicken?

[Gooner Girl]

What I want to know is why are you lot all ogling other guys in the changing room anyway?

[Montreal Wanderer]

I really cant see the offense here. If Woods had been asked a similar question and replied "He can come anytime he likes, I'll be serving Tapas" - would that be deemed as offensive?

Some days I dont feel up to date with the current rules...

It doesn't bother me when people apply English or Canadian stereotypes to me. Perhaps I lack sensitivity because I am not a persecuted visible minority, and have never been the object of racism. Clearly stereotyping can been hurtful to those who have suffered, so it seems to me best avoided.

And I say that's bullshit.
If somebody says "he can come around anytime for baked hedgehog" (and can even possibly add "kushti" at the end), it's hardly a racist slur.
If on the other hand somebody suggests that I'm a Pikey and mentions it in an insulting way, at that point I can understand the racist insult.
But that, it's not an insult and it's hardly racist. As a 'white' third generation Pikey, can I not eat fried chicken?

All I am saying is that, in America, consuming fried chicken and water melons is a racial stereotype. I didn't say it was a slur. Obviously non-blacks eat fried chicken and water melon so that argument is specious. I would not upset me to be called a pikey, which I think is a gypsy, because I am not a gypsy. It does not upset me to be called a goddamned limey or a maudit anglais (both of which happen from time to time). This is to say I don't get upset over the racial aspects of insults. All I said was that I am not a member of a minority with a history of persecution, so I don't have the same sensitivity. If an American black calls me a honky (clearly a racial slur) it wouldn't bother me, while calling him a nigger would surely upset him. I only suggest that because something does not upset you or seem racist, others perceptions may differ so it is best not to throw stereotypes around.

[bobo the clown]

What I want to know is why are you lot all ogling other guys in the changing room anyway?

You know nothing of men GG.

Men do not ogle each other in changing rooms. They barely speak, certainly not to people they don't know. No eye contact is made. Where speak is spoke it is on overtly neutral subjects .... or sport.

Maybe in "certain types" of gymnasia, but not yer average one.

Drying and dressing is a solo act, albeit in a collective space.

No-one casts an eye on another persons body parts other than in the faintest passing, where unavoidable.

[thebish]

according to my missus and my daughter - there are plenty of ladies who like to flaunt their bits in ladies changing rooms too...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I really cant see the offense here. If Woods had been asked a similar question and replied "He can come anytime he likes, I'll be serving Tapas" - would that be deemed as offensive?

Some days I dont feel up to date with the current rules...

It doesn't bother me when people apply English or Canadian stereotypes to me. Perhaps I lack sensitivity because I am not a persecuted visible minority, and have never been the object of racism. Clearly stereotyping can been hurtful to those who have suffered, so it seems to me best avoided.

And I say that's bullshit.
If somebody says "he can come around anytime for baked hedgehog" (and can even possibly add "kushti" at the end), it's hardly a racist slur.
If on the other hand somebody suggests that I'm a Pikey and mentions it in an insulting way, at that point I can understand the racist insult.
But that, it's not an insult and it's hardly racist. As a 'white' third generation Pikey, can I not eat fried chicken?

All I am saying is that, in America, consuming fried chicken and water melons is a racial stereotype. I didn't say it was a slur. Obviously non-blacks eat fried chicken and water melon so that argument is specious. I would not upset me to be called a pikey, which I think is a gypsy, because I am not a gypsy. It does not upset me to be called a goddamned limey or a maudit anglais (both of which happen from time to time). This is to say I don't get upset over the racial aspects of insults. All I said was that I am not a member of a minority with a history of persecution, so I don't have the same sensitivity. If an American black calls me a honky (clearly a racial slur) it wouldn't bother me, while calling him a nigger would surely upset him. I only suggest that because something does not upset you or seem racist, others perceptions may differ so it is best not to throw stereotypes around.

I think I understand the argument. My complaint here is that this is becoming ridiculous beyond the point of absurdity. I'm a Pikey, you're a Limey (or whatever), others are Niggers. All clearly insults, all the starting conditions, if called that, for fights on the streets, and for some sad cnuts for litigation. But food choices! Give me a fxckin break.
What next, what pet you have?

[thebish]

on a related theme - that of insults working one way but not the other (monty's very valid point that an insult isn't an insult merely because it has a racial flavour - but that it also has an undertone of persecution that has historically been attached to that racial identity)


anyway - I remember being pretty gobsmacked at the Emirates when Arsenal finally (but inevitably) took the lead against Bolton to hear the Arsenal fans finally stir themselves to make some noise - and what do they chat?? "WHO ARE YOU? WHO ARE YOU? WHO ARE YOU?"

y'see - that kinda works if you are a small unpretentious club chanting at a big pretentious club - but not the other way around!!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

on a related theme - that of insults working one way but not the other (monty's very valid point that an insult isn't an insult merely because it has a racial flavour - but that it also has an undertone of persecution that has historically been attached to that racial identity)


anyway - I remember being pretty gobsmacked at the Emirates when Arsenal finally (but inevitably) took the lead against Bolton to hear the Arsenal fans finally stir themselves to make some noise - and what do they chat?? "WHO ARE YOU? WHO ARE YOU? WHO ARE YOU?"

y'see - that kinda works if you are a small unpretentious club chanting at a big pretentious club - but not the other way around!!

This is where I have the difficulty... An undertone of persecution.
Watermelons. Does that really give an undertone of persecution?
How about huge tokes on spliffs the size of small continents while having matted dreadlocks the size of small continents?
2 things here..
Firstly, that image hardly conjures up white folk.
Secondly, it's hardly a racial fxckin slur.
Fried chicken. Ganga.
Do either conjure up UNDERTONES OF PERSECUTION.
No they do not. As I said, bullshit.

[thebish]

no - I didn't mean to say the food itself had undertones of persecution - sorry about the confusion! I was merely agreeing with monty that it is not equally insulting to use a racial slur against an unpersecuted race as it is to use one against a race that has a real history of persecution/subjugation.

so - the food thing - the argument is not lunacy - nor does it seem to be the worst crime in the world - it is at least understandable.

i think it would be insulting if someone asked me if Mr Patel from down the road could come to my house for dinner - and i responded "oh yeah - sure he can - we'll have onion bhajis every night." and - this is where you might disagree - which is fine - that would be LESS of an insult were it the other way around and he were to say "oh yeah - sure - we'll have cucumber sandwiches every night."

sounds bonkers and unfair - but in this country there is a history of racist persecution against Mr Patel and his race - but not against me and mine - I think that makes a difference.

in America the chicken and corn-bread (I think) was "poor man's food" (never mind who eats it now) - associated with the poor persecuted black community. to make such a reference to Woods could be construed as offensive.

there are worse offenses - sure - but i can at least see the argument - and (it seems) so can the bloke who said it.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I think the bloke who said it can only see it through a veil of litigation. Maybe he'd like to come round for some nachos and discuss it with me.
I will not be cowed on this (did you see that Bruce. Cowed).
Racism used to be quite straightforward. Now it is getting ridiculous to a point beyond absurdism.
Why can a mention of religion be racist, or a mention of traditional foods?
If for example I protest that female genital mutilation makes me aghast, why is that not racist? Behave.