The Royal Baby

[Montreal Wanderer]

In fairness, Monty, that's a big jump based only (unless you know something else) on a guess at the origins of her name.

And, in fairness to thebish, I don't think he was arguing she wasn't 'harmed' at all, more picking up on your use of the word 'harm' which seemed to specifically refer to her death.

I don't really want to try to turn this into a case study, but I think there are massive issues with causation for any civil claim against them.

Why on earth would you judge my use of the word 'harm', either in a legal or lay sense, refer specifically to her death. Being held up to ridicule in front of millions or only a handful of acquaintances is harmful. Feeling you let your employer or profession down can be harmful. I just said she was harmed by the prank. I never suggested it was solely responsible for her suicide, though I would be naive to think it did not play a major part. As for bish's arguments - as has been pointed out he likes to argue often for its own sake. Furthermore he appeared to challenge my suggestion she was harmed:

I'm afraid I disagree. What they did caused her harm.

Do you KNOW this - or are you guessing?

As for the argument of cultural differences versus deranged woman - both are plausible. My big jump is no bigger than yours, my friend.

[Bruce Rioja]

The reasons for which we could only speculate.

OK. £100 Quid of my money against £100 Quid of yours says that this whole Australian DJ guff led to her taking her own life.

[Prufrock]

In fairness, Monty, that's a big jump based only (unless you know something else) on a guess at the origins of her name.

And, in fairness to thebish, I don't think he was arguing she wasn't 'harmed' at all, more picking up on your use of the word 'harm' which seemed to specifically refer to her death.

I don't really want to try to turn this into a case study, but I think there are massive issues with causation for any civil claim against them.

Why on earth would you judge my use of the word 'harm', either in a legal or lay sense, refer specifically to her death. Being held up to ridicule in front of millions or only a handful of acquaintances is harmful. Feeling you let your employer or profession down can be harmful. I just said she was harmed by the prank. I never suggested it was solely responsible for her suicide, though I would be naive to think it did not play a major part. As for bish's arguments - as has been pointed out he likes to argue often for its own sake. Furthermore he appeared to challenge my suggestion she was harmed:

I'm afraid I disagree. What they did caused her harm.

Do you KNOW this - or are you guessing?

As for the argument of cultural differences versus deranged woman - both are plausible. My big jump is no bigger than yours, my friend.

I've not suggested she was deranged! My point is we have no idea what was going on in her life. Personal problems, work, psychological we just don't know. I think it is distasteful to speculate, particularly when it leads to folk offering internet bets!

[Prufrock]

The reasons for which we could only speculate.

OK. £100 Quid of my money against £100 Quid of yours says that this whole Australian DJ guff led to her taking her own life.

Really? Come on...

[Bruce Rioja]

OK then. €123

[BWFC_Insane]

This is incredibly sad.

I think trying to blame a couple of DJs from across the world for a call that the clearly did fully expecting to get nowhere is IMO ridiculous given the facts we have to hand.

Firstly they rang up clearly for a laugh, however you might want to view that it was basically intended as completely harmless fun.

Ultimately you'd have to ask how her employers dealt with it in the aftermath for this to happen.

But it's incredibly sad and unfortunate. I bet the DJs feel terrible but ultimately it is not their fault. It is not their fault that she fell for something that was clearly not even dressed up as being serious. Not their fault that someone who is a professional made a mistake, that joke or not, someone with her training should not. And not their fault that sadly whatever has happened since has led to that poor woman taking her own life.

It's sad, it's horrific and seems very unecessary, and i feel for everyone who has experienced loss in all this. But well, i don't think I can blame those DJs anymore than I can blame the royal family for creating the ridiculous hysteria that leads to these situations.

[Bruce Rioja]

But well, i don't think I can blame those DJs anymore than I can blame the royal family for creating the ridiculous hysteria that leads to these situations.

And how exactly do the royal family create the ridiculous hysteria that leads to these situations, you absolute gobshite?

[thebish]

The reasons for which we could only speculate.

OK. £100 Quid of my money against £100 Quid of yours says that this whole Australian DJ guff led to her taking her own life.

chastise me if you like... but betting over the reasons for the death of a young nurse it a teeny weeny bit distasteful, no?

[BWFC_Insane]

But well, i don't think I can blame those DJs anymore than I can blame the royal family for creating the ridiculous hysteria that leads to these situations.

And how exactly do the royal family create the ridiculous hysteria that leads to these situations, you absolute gobshite?

Again with the personal insults.

An well resorting to those just shows you can't construct a proper argument. Probably because you don't have one.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Calm down people. All of youse. Now look what you've done, forced me into scouse...

[Bruce Rioja]

The reasons for which we could only speculate.

OK. £100 Quid of my money against £100 Quid of yours says that this whole Australian DJ guff led to her taking her own life.

chastise me if you like... but betting over the reasons for the death of a young nurse it a teeny weeny bit distasteful, no?

Chastise me if you like... but speculating over the reasons for the death of a young nurse is every bit as distasteful as wagering cash over it, no?

[Bruce Rioja]

But well, i don't think I can blame those DJs anymore than I can blame the royal family for creating the ridiculous hysteria that leads to these situations.

And how exactly do the royal family create the ridiculous hysteria that leads to these situations, you absolute gobshite?

Again with the personal insults.

An well resorting to those just shows you can't construct a proper argument. Probably because you don't have one.

Argument? I've asked you a simple question, which you've not picked up on. Probably because you don't have an answer!

[thebish]

I am sorry the bish cannot see the woman was harmed

I didn't really want to continue this - but this is (frankly) outrageous.. I am going to have to challenge you on that.

where the feckity fecking feck did I say anything even remotely close to that?

what the toss are you on about??


for your benefit, here is everything I have written on the matter:

1. I suspect it is far to early to be attributing "blame".

2. we may very well guess that - but suicide is rarely as simple as that...

3. Do you KNOW this - or are you guessing?

4. I don't know either way... I DO know that suicide is usually (though not always) much more complex than this - it is not often triggered by a single incident. All I am saying is that we really don't know enough to be apportioning blame.

5. "what they did caused her harm" sounds very much like blame to me....

6. indeed - but you were talking about some kind of legal/court repercussions for the ozzie broadcasters... weren't you?? If you are not saying the broadcasters are to blame - then what are you on about??

7. (to Pru) in that case - you are clearly being obtuse!!

8. (to Bruce) I don't think Pru is disputing that it is a sad situation...

9. (to bruce) whatever - from the outside - appears to be the immediate "trigger" - it is very very rarely that simple. I think that's the simple point that Pru (and me) have tried to make. It was your "think about that if you will" (that there is now a widower and bereaved children) that made it sound as if you thought Pru hadn't grasped that...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Look, there are many avenues of blame we can go down here, but do we need to?
Here's one we've not explored: Mrs Kate the Newly Royal, whist throwing up her tandoori from three nights ago, was accompanied at all times by a Royal Protection detail - was it really beyond the bounds of their professional watchfulness not to be vetting any fxcking phone calls incoming instead of letting a nurse (on duty) act as receptionist to her possibly in the future maj?. And why hasn't a hospital the size of King Thingy VII got a fxcking receptionist??? eh, why?

[Bruce Rioja]

The receptionist put them through to the nurse, no?

[thebish]

In fairness, Monty, that's a big jump based only (unless you know something else) on a guess at the origins of her name.

And, in fairness to thebish, I don't think he was arguing she wasn't 'harmed' at all, more picking up on your use of the word 'harm' which seemed to specifically refer to her death.

I don't really want to try to turn this into a case study, but I think there are massive issues with causation for any civil claim against them.

Why on earth would you judge my use of the word 'harm', either in a legal or lay sense, refer specifically to her death.

quite simply because you only raised the issue after she has committed suicide - and your post was about what should happen now she has committed suicide. You did not raise any question of any legal action beforehand. So - it is entirely natural to believe that you were referring to the recent event that has happened - namely - her suicide.

in fact - BEFORE her suicide you seemed to think that prank calls humiliating SOME people were funny...

I have to confess I did laugh some five years ago when two Montreal comedians, the Masked Avengers, telephoned Sarah Palin claiming to be President Sarkozy. The level of ignorance she displayed about the world outside Alaska was staggering and this was a person one heart beat away from the presidency had they won.

I know you believe me to be obtuse - but I really think you have (for some reason best known to yourself) run off with the shitty end of some kind of stick and got carried away with yourself...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The receptionist put them through to the nurse, no?

No, a nurse on duty (who has subsequently commited suicide) put the call through to the nurse who gave out the details. The first nurse, who 'acted' as a receptionist was on duty being a nurse. The second nurse who gave out details was acting as hand holder to sickety Kate.

[thebish]

The reasons for which we could only speculate.

OK. £100 Quid of my money against £100 Quid of yours says that this whole Australian DJ guff led to her taking her own life.

chastise me if you like... but betting over the reasons for the death of a young nurse it a teeny weeny bit distasteful, no?

Chastise me if you like... but speculating over the reasons for the death of a young nurse is every bit as distasteful as wagering cash over it, no?

I haven't offered any suggested reasons for her death. I have said we don't know, and that suicide is usually complex. what are you on about??

[thebish]

The receptionist put them through to the nurse, no?

no.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The receptionist put them through to the nurse, no?

no.

I answered that. You picking on me now?